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Adept Appraisal

1623 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2009 : 12:46:57 PM

It's true, I was asked that very thing even today. Well, almost...

jchvw9

76 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2009 : 1:03:43 PM

You greatly overestimate my anger. I'm not angry at the appraised value, it came it at value and the deal closed. What I was hitting at was that the appraiser gave a lower value to the property because he was afraid that if the VA saw he gave 50-60k over the purchase price that they would question his appraisal and he would be in trouble. There is no logic behind his statement or his appraisal and that is what threw me off. It is troubling because in many neighborhoods, especially ones with a large percentage of short sales, it is a snowball effect. Appraisals are coming in low, banks are meeting the new "market" value and selling the property to get them off of the books, and the next appraisal is lower and so on and so on.

I am just going to go ahead and apologize for the way my original post was worded. I sounded like an idiot and it will save us all a great deal of time if I just admit that and move on. My bad.

ritabradley01

4945 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2009 : 1:26:34 PM

It's too late. Ya got us all wound up now. :)

Hopland

4126 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2009 : 1:34:06 PM

quote:
What I was hitting at was that the appraiser gave a lower value to the property because he was afraid that if the VA saw he gave 50-60k over the purchase price that they would question his appraisal and he would be in trouble. There is no logic behind his statement or his appraisal and that is what threw me off.

If the appraiser said that then he should mail his license back to the state.

jchvw9

76 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2009 : 1:36:37 PM

I know. I know.

Hopland

4126 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2009 : 1:46:32 PM

email would be even faster.

jchvw9

76 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2009 : 2:15:30 PM

I agree. Really it was just an all around bad situation because it took over 30 days for him to complete the appraisal in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I tried everything to speed the process, but the next nearest VA appraiser was over 200 miles away.

Adept Appraisal

1623 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2009 : 2:18:09 PM

I didn't realize there was anywhere except, oh, maybe Alaska, that would put even VA appraisers so far from one another. Now THERE'S a void waiting to be filled.

jchvw9

76 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2009 : 2:22:21 PM

David if you are looking for a new location, go to the middle of nowhere Washington, drive 5 miles further, and hang a shingle. Sure you might only do 1 a month, but think of the lack of stress you would have.

Adept Appraisal

1623 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2009 : 4:38:45 PM

They are catching on, all people involved, as to what's happening. It's only a matter of time. This is from today:

HUD Eyeing Appraisal Management Cos.
National Mortgage News | Monday, July 6, 2009

The Department of Housing and Urban Development is revising appraisal policies to address concerns that have been raised about appraisal management companies, an agency spokesman said.

Appraisers have complained that HUD's restrictions on their fees and lenders' increasing reliance on management companies are discouraging experienced appraisers from taking assignments for loans insured by the Federal Housing Administration, a part of HUD.

"The loss of these seasoned professionals is adding unnecessary and substantial risk to the FHA program," four appraisal trade groups wrote in a July 1 letter to HUD Secretary Shaun Donovan.

The HUD spokesman said the department is working on a letter to lenders "addressing this issue."

Adept Appraisal

1623 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2009 : 5:46:33 PM

Sorry, Darren, it means people are finally buying a vowel and catching a clue. It is a good thing.

Hopland

4126 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2009 : 6:23:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ZF

quote:
Originally posted by Adept Appraisal

Sorry, Darren, it means people are finally buying a vowel and catching a clue. It is a good thing.

Dave I hope you are correct. I would like to see you win this battle, as many times you have fought alone. Man would I hate to cross you, you never give up.

Regards Dave.

I'll bet you a nickel the HUD letter will emphasize that AMC's must not select appraisers based on fee and will re-iterate the mortgagee letter stating payment and firrea policies with regard to AMCs (allows payment of fees beyond the what the appriaser charges - AMC's cut - but limits the appraisal fee paid by the borrower to customary fees, i.e. someone other than the borrower has to pay for the management company mark up).

ritabradley01

4945 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2009 : 6:46:49 PM

That will depend on the AMC. How can anyone control a private company?

Again, if we stop allowing the Lender to determine which AMC is used, AMCs will have to provide excellent service to be competitive . Do you see what I mean ZF?

ritabradley01

4945 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2009 : 7:29:10 PM

Let's see if the moratorium happens. If so, I think you guys will forget about all this until about a year and a half from now. If the moratorium doesn't happen, let's band together and see if we can get that particular clause back into the HVCC. That's something I could stand behind for sure.

If you're having spelling issues, use Mozilla Firefox as your browser instead of Internet Explorer. You can set it up so that when you're posting, any misspellings will be underlined in red. If you happen to misspell something, you can double click on the misspelled word to highlight it, right click the highlighted word and Mozilla will offer suggestions for correct spellings. My spelling is ok but some words trip me up and this feature helps immensely. I mean this to be helpful and I'm posting it publicly so other people can check it out too.

quote:
Originally posted by ZF

quote:
Originally posted by ritabradley01

That will depend on the AMC. How can anyone control a private company?

Again, if we stop allowing the Lender to determine which AMC is used, AMCs will have to provide excellent service to be competitive . Do you see what I mean ZF?

I agree with you on this. Rita, we only seek service, I could care less if it cost me another 200.00 dollars, I just don't want to be eating rate extensions of 1000.00 every fifteen days. You have no idea how much money I have lost, but I promise its been well over 9000.00 since may 1st.

Adept Appraisal

1623 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2009 : 7:44:21 PM

I'm all for banding together, now explain what that means to people like Greg.

And then hit the Appraisal Forum up, as they're b&^%$ing and moaning about AMCs all over that wretched place, but they're still working for them. The only person not *****ing about them is me, as I am avoiding them like the plague they are. I've already "banded."

Now let's get rid of HVCC and we'll really get somewhere.

I saw your post, too. You commented that the AMCs and the LOs are "sounding a lot a like," and how "weird" that seemed to you. Why is that seem weird? I've been telling you that for months now. It's all about control.

Dave...

ritabradley01

4945 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2009 : 10:28:21 PM

That's not what I said Dave. You and I are having a lot of misunderstandings. Maybe I'm not communicating very well. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't just "hearing" what you want to hear.

I said that all the amc phone monkey's sound alike just like all the value pushing LOs sound alike. I'm not saying that LOs sound like amc monkeys. LOs sound smarter...just a bit.

quote:
Originally posted by Adept Appraisal

I'm all for banding together, now explain what that means to people like Greg.

And then hit the Appraisal Forum up, as they're b&^%$ing and moaning about AMCs all over that wretched place, but they're still working for them. The only person not *****ing about them is me, as I am avoiding them like the plague they are. I've already "banded."

Now let's get rid of HVCC and we'll really get somewhere.

I saw your post, too. You commented that the AMCs and the LOs are "sounding a lot a like," and how "weird" that seemed to you. Why is that seem weird? I've been telling you that for months now. It's all about control.

Dave...

pmack74

1 Posts

Posted - 07/06/2009 : 11:33:11 PM

Why would HUD issue a letter on AMCs when FHA appraisals are not required to be ordered through AMCs? Doesn't seem to make any sense.

Adept Appraisal

1623 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2009 : 07:04:01 AM

A distinction without a difference. Don't give me the benefit of the doubt, as I wasn't wrong in the first place. You wound saying basically the same thing, again.

ritabradley01

4945 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2009 : 6:51:56 PM

Rumor has it FHA will be going the AMC route sometime this year. I can't confirm-just a rumor from an internet forum at this point.

quote:
Originally posted by pmack74

Why would HUD issue a letter on AMCs when FHA appraisals are not required to be ordered through AMCs? Doesn't seem to make any sense.

frank drigotas j

3871 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2009 : 7:12:34 PM

"Rumor has it FHA will be going the AMC route sometime this year. I can't confirm-just a rumor from an internet forum at this point."

Rita, above

Then why post it? particularly when you state in the thread "Another HVCC Story" elsewhere in this section:

"All these stories are hearsay. I don't pay attention anymore because there are never enough facts presented."

Do you understand how you look?

dollar

Adept Appraisal

1623 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2009 : 7:43:12 PM

Not lately she doesn't.

Hopland

4126 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2009 : 8:56:36 PM

HUD/FHA already allows AMC's and always has. They are going to adopt HVCC and this will mean more AMC order assignments. But they also see the problem with the AMC model and are likely being proactive about the issues. But HVCC does not require the use of AMC's.

RESPA does not allow lenders to make a profit on the appraisal. But HUD/FHA allows for an AMC to charge for it's services. The caveat to that is that the borrower is not to pay more than customary appraisal fees for the market area the property is located in. That means either:

A) The appraiser must work at a discount to allow the AMC to make money. This leads to shoddy appraisals by inexperienced, untrained or unprincipled appraisers. Obviously this can no longer be tolerated... by anyone.

B) The broker or lender pays the difference. It's a cost of doing business and a pretty nominal cost.

quote:
Chapter 1
Appraisal & Property Requirements
Page 1-05

A: Appraisal fees

HUD no longer establishes fees or due dates. See: Mortgagee Letter 1997-22.
The appraiser and lender will negotiate the price and due date. This includes fees for canceled assignments, missed appointments, etc. Collection of unpaid fees is the responsibility of the appraiser. The Department expects lenders to promptly pay appraisers for work completed.
Fee is paid for market value opinions based on HUD policy and procedure. Fees are never contingent upon the appraiser arriving at a predetermined specific value, a predetermined minimum value, a range or direction in value, a value that favors the cause of any party, or the attainment of a specific result or occurrence of a specific subsequent event such as loan approval.
Appraisal Management Firms may charge the mortgagor a fee for the appraisal that may encompass fees for services performed by the firm as well as fees for the appraisal itself. However, the total of these fees is limited to the customary and reasonable fee for an appraisal in the market area where the appraisal is performed. Compliance with all aspects of RESPA is required While the owners/operators of such Appraisal Management firms may be licensed, the appraiser actually performing the FHA appraisal must be on HUD's approved Roster. No "supervisory" appraisals will be accepted. That is, the assigned licensed/approved appraiser must visit the subject and all comparable sales and complete the appraisal analysis. If any portion of the work involves assistance from others, the appraiser must summarize the extent of that assistance including providing the name (s) of those providing assistance. Appraisal trainees are not eligible to perform nor sign a FHA appraisal report.

Adept Appraisal

1623 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2009 : 9:01:58 PM

They won't adopt it if the vote puts the moratorium into effect.

Greg, when are you going toi admit this is nuts and a total government insider sham?

Hopland

4126 Posts

Posted - 07/07/2009 : 9:04:13 PM

When you provide a tiny shred of evidence or even just a logical argument for a government conspiracy.

Hopland

4126 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2009 : 05:25:58 AM

I provide a sound and logical argument and post actual documentation in support of it in a post that's way more detailed than the majority of anything else presented and you accuse me of offering small shots with no back up? You posted only a couple of minutes after my post. How could you have thoughtfully considered the evidence in that amount of time? IMO, you, Dave and others have a deep-seated (and possibly, probably, self-centered) bias against the issue and cannot look at this objectively.

I'm not "fighting" for anything. I'm just encouraged that something (even if it's not perfect) to help augment appraiser indepence has finally been accomplished and don't want to see it rescinded based on phoney baloney arguments.

Adept Appraisal

1623 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2009 : 06:23:43 AM

Greg,

It's already been presented, over and over. Your ADHD, or your invincible will to overlook the obvious (take your pick), prevents you from admitting what so many others already know.

This is a well planned out bit of collusion, and those having perpetuated it are counting on YOU, Greg, they are counting on you to be strong for them brother, don't lose the faith!!

Dave...

Hopland

4126 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2009 : 06:40:00 AM

quote:
you may have it all over me in regards to appraisals, but that is where your knowledge ends.

How much detail do I need to know? My dad was a mortgage broker. I have the Cal-Vet Mortgage Broker Manual on the bookshelf right over my monitor. I have links to all of the HUD housing handbooks, mortgagee letters and publications, Fannie and Freddie selling guides, Announcement letters, FAQ's etc. Links to Joint Communications from the Federally Regulated Institutions, links to Title 12 of the Code of Federal Regulations. I've talked to hundreds of loan officers and brokers over a period of 10 years and almost on a daily basis. I've had beer and lunch many times with really sharp brokers with advanced economic degrees where we've debated the issues. I've attended hundreds of hours at the MAI level where class discussions and workgroups discussed financing because it is an integral part of value.

blah, blah, blah.

Dave... My ADHD is acting up again. Did you say something?

Adept Appraisal

1623 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2009 : 06:41:59 AM

No, why?

Hopland

4126 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2009 : 06:52:30 AM

Of course not. I only have a good idea of how it's "supposed" to work. I only have a fleeting glimpse of how to game the system in the underworld.

Hopland

4126 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2009 : 07:20:36 AM

First, as a fellow veteran, let me thank you for your service to our country. I was a mere enlisted man but also saw people die. It's difficult isn't it?

I have no advanced, formal education. I'm self taught and still learning. I will absorb anything you tell me. Just don't expect me to digest it all.

Hopland

4126 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2009 : 07:29:01 AM

Actually your parable can be used in a different way. They died despite what the book said to do. Not everything happens like the book says it will. But most of the time it probably does... otherwise it wouldn't be in the book. In the Navy, when ever there was some sort of incident an extensive investagation was made as to the cause and a report was made. The report included a section called "Lessones Learned" and this went into "the book."

Anything can happen in war (or lending) but following the book usually helps more often then it hurts based on the theory of "been there, done that."

Adept Appraisal

1623 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2009 : 07:30:17 AM

And as the father of an enlisted daughter let me thank BOTH of you for your service to this greatest country under God's green Earth.

Dave...

ritabradley01

4945 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2009 : 10:27:02 AM

Makes me wonder if Vets are more stubborn than the general population? I happen to be one too.(no war for me though, thankfully)

ZF you mentioned progress. What type of progress are you referring too? Honestly, I'm not sure what kind of progress you're referring to.

Honestly, the issue of brokers running out of places to place their loans isn't something that appraisers are going to concern themselves with. There are only so many hours in a day and they've already been tasked with "policing their own industry" which is a pretty big job, I'd say. I do feel for both brokers (and appraisers) who have had the rug pulled out from under them but appraisers can't be biased when they complete a report-to make the deal work. It goes against the whole point of having an appraisal done so it's better if appraisers don't even think about such things when completing an appraisal. The appraiser's only concern should be to give a credible opinion of the value of the collateral, in a reasonable timeframe, for a reasonable price.

ritabradley01

4945 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2009 : 2:41:18 PM

No use wearing ourselves out posting here "to the death". Energy would be better spend fighting somewhere else, adapting or moving on.

ritabradley01

4945 Posts

Posted - 07/08/2009 : 10:18:49 PM

I'm not trying to set you up. I'm not clever or mean enough for those types of things. I don't believe Greg is either. I keep it all online and so far no one has harassed me offline except possible sending me some nice magazines.

There are definitely cases of people here with 2+ screen names so I'm not out in left field with saying that. I was just taking a shot in the dark and mostly just having fun with it. Not to worry. By the way, before you started posting here Frank Drigotas' screen name was Dollar. He's had at least 2 screen names and I think some other people even made up some screen names and pretended to be him. It got really crazy. It's all in good fun and believe it or not I don't hate brokers, not at all. I just don't like some of the tactics I ran into when I first started in the industry and I feel it's important to keep talking about these issues. I'm just a rookie-Hopland has been here for years doing it. Dave only started coming here when HVCC got going. Dave I think we all agree that HVCC as it stands isn't working out. I'm just hoping it's a step in the right direction.

Sarge

201 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2009 : 07:15:54 AM

DAve said...........And as the father of an enlisted daughter......

I hope it is the Air Force. Regardless, thank her for me as well.
My wife is a retired E8, tell your daughter to give the idea of a career a thought or two. And since I'm a retired E7, you know who gives the orders around here. LOL

Adept Appraisal

1623 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2009 : 07:45:16 AM

She went Army, Sarge,and that was after being courted by all branches here locally. Rebecca was going, one way or another, she's just wired that way, and she chose Army.

And here's a quick story that will warm your heart: I've gotten exactly two calls from my beautiful blonder since she's been in BC, and man, the tone in her voice? She's LOVING it! Gas chambers, lobbing grenades, obstacle courses, her M-16, she's LOVING it. I get so emotional I can hardly even talk, I turn into mush when I hear her voice.

Anyway, I wrote my oldest daughter Amy and asked her how tough an old ma was I anyway, that Becca loves BC so much...??

;^)

Dave...

Hopland

4126 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2009 : 07:51:01 AM

Bootcamp sounds so different from what it was in 1972/73. We were so afraid of our drill instructor. But now that I think back on those 3 months I feel like hunting down that wimpy, buck-toothed Sonarman First Class and pounding his teeth back where they belong.

clydesnodgrass

772 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2009 : 07:58:31 AM

Basic training was fun... at least I thought so. If you got to a good post for tech school, that was a blast. Kind of like a fratenity but with a really nasty president).

Adept Appraisal

1623 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2009 : 08:02:52 AM

She's afraid of hers, too, Greg, but she wrote to me that while he's a nasty sob she believes he has her best interests in n mind, and respects that. Two kids have already been sent home. That has to be tough.

By the way, she's in Fort Jackson, SC., and everyone told her to watch out for "sand fleas." None seem to be bothering her. Is that a myth/joke, or is the rather mild weather (although Rebecca said it's averaging 100+ in the day right now), keeping them at bay? The FLEAS were scaring her more that the whole idea of boot camp before she left!!

ritabradley01

4945 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2009 : 08:33:07 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Adept Appraisal

She's afraid of hers, too, Greg, but she wrote to me that while he's a nasty sob she believes he has her best interests in n mind, and respects that. Two kids have already been sent home. That has to be tough.

By the way, she's in Fort Jackson, SC., and everyone told her to watch out for "sand fleas." None seem to be bothering her. Is that a myth/joke, or is the rather mild weather (although Rebecca said it's averaging 100+ in the day right now), keeping them at bay? The FLEAS were scaring her more that the whole idea of boot camp before she left!!

I went to Army AIT training at Fort Jackson-summer of '85. I don't remember any sand fleas. I liked the travel of the Army, I got to go to Germany.

Hopland

4126 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2009 : 09:24:48 AM

quote:
until I twisted my knee in a 360 degree position.

Shredded my ACL after falling off a ladder between decks passing 5"/54 projectiles. I fell, the 80 pound bullet fell with me (I hung onto it) but my ankel and knee stayed in the ladder rung.

ritabradley01

4945 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2009 : 09:31:47 AM

ouch

Hopland

4126 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2009 : 09:39:16 AM

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5-54_mk45_pic.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_5-54_mk45_pics.htm&usg=___3fAX71dutGS6y2OSSBDflmcfaY=&h=386&w=635&sz=36&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=S9_ekXxbuixSOM:&tbnh=83&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3D5%2522/54%2Bprojectile%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

Adept Appraisal

1623 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2009 : 10:17:54 AM

Ouch is right! I saw the same thing happen to a wrestler when I was a freshman. In practice senior Mike Kathmier went in for a single leg on a guy named John LaBerg. Mike wound up grabbing John's ankle and ramming his shoulder into John's knee by accident. Physics took over, and John LaBerg's lower leg came forward on a 90 degree angle, the wrong direction, obviously, with his patella was floating around somewhere inside his leg.

Worst cry of agony I've ever heard a human being make, and I've made a few myself. I don't think you ever quite recover form stuff like that.

Dave...

MARKJOLLIFF

486 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2009 : 4:30:30 PM

Greg and Dave, It is really nice to see you guys talking nice to each other and having common ground. My son is 18 and 2 buddies have joined the service. One Coast Guard and the other Navy. My son is thinking Marines and I'm scared to death. I've only got one if that even matters.I talk negatively about the service all the time just out of fear. I can't imagine not sleeping for months if he were deployed. I'm very proud of him though for wanting to serve. I'm just afraid to tell him that cuz he might take it as encouragement. How parents with kids in the military deal with it is beyond me. Good luck to your daughters Dave and I hope they stay safe.

Adept Appraisal

1623 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2009 : 8:02:13 PM

Au contraire, my friend, there's PLENTY of glory (and honor!) in that.

AlbertSmythe48

466 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2009 : 9:07:05 PM

And what the hell were we talking about again? I forgot?

AlbertSmythe48

466 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2009 : 9:28:56 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ZF

quote:
Originally posted by AlbertSmythe48

And what the hell were we talking about again? I forgot?

How bad appraisers really are.

This coming from the guy who thinks AVM's are the cure for everything... You're funny!!!!

AlbertSmythe48

466 Posts

Posted - 07/09/2009 : 9:58:54 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ZF

quote:
Originally posted by AlbertSmythe48

quote:
Originally posted by ZF

quote:
Originally posted by AlbertSmythe48

And what the hell were we talking about again? I forgot?

How bad appraisers really are.

This coming from the guy who thinks AVM's are the cure for everything... You're funny!!!!

Based on the work you and other appraisers offer, I will take the AVM. Offers solid growth and have a decision in 5 minutes, unlike your three weeks. Al,you are a good man, this I know, so why argue with me, join me and cease this HVCC once and for all.

First off, YOU have never seen my work so you have no idea what I have to offer you! You see one or two piss poor appraisals and you say they are all bad! Well KMA! You know your words about AVM's are worthless words in the wind to me, so drop it. Why argue with you? For the most part, I think you are okay too, however your ideas of using AVM's as a cure to this problem is ridiculous! If they had used AVM's instead of appraisers from say 2002 through 2007 the problem we would have here would be twice as bad as it is. When you come up with a cure that doesn't involve AVM's then I might consider joining you.

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