| Author |
Previous Topic | Next Topic |
|
duncan351
12 Posts |
 Posted - 04/26/2005 : 11:00:34 AM
|
Has anyone on this forum tried this form of marketing yet?
I getting ready to have a professional website built comparable to ameriquest and a few others. Then get in a top position for a few of the top 5 phrases. Has anyone else done this yet? What was your experience?
Thanks,
Duron |
|
|
|
Darin Ferraro
7813 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 11:39:04 AM
|
Hey Duron, it all depends on your budget. How much do you want to spend to make sure your ads are being shown up top? PPC prices can run up very quickly to get enough exposure. Its not as easy as it looks.
Also don't go by the estimated traffic/clicks these PPC companies show you, its not accurate. There are many factors those estimates don't include like your competing advertisers and how they can change bids many times during a day.
There are even companies who manage that for your full time for fees, change things using automated software to stay up top.
For example, Google says for 1500 - 2400 bucks a day you can get 1500 clicks for the word 'mortgage' at an average cost of .68 cents. I've done tests at smaller scale and the numbers never work out like their estimates.
|
|
|
duncan351
12 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 12:01:46 PM
|
How did you perform such a test? I was aware of the bidding war part.
You have to stay on top of that to stay up top. |
|
|
Darin Ferraro
7813 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 12:06:07 PM
|
Try it. Go on google and put in a daily budget of $100 bucks and start with $5 per click and see what you get.
Its a live realtime war. Actually, Google uses CTR in their ranking formula, which I think is stupid. But if your ad doesnt get clicked, your ad wont show up. No matter how much you bid. You must have missed my last newsletter! |
|
|
duncan351
12 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 12:12:17 PM
|
| Yes I did miss the newsletter. I was going with Overture. I don't have any experience with Google. I did this once and it seemed fine. The only thing I did notice was the real time price war like you mentioned but I can stay on top of that. Plus I have my keyword phrases which I generated myself using some online tools. I didn't trust the reps for Overture when they tried to sell me their package deal to do the work for me so I did my own research. |
|
|
jandr
1543 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 12:21:48 PM
|
| hey duncan could you post or email me thos keyword phrases or tell me where to search on the web. I would like to ad those to my payper click. Thanks |
|
|
philleto
1631 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 12:24:07 PM
|
| I built my own site (www.philleto.com) and went live last month. It cost about $100 for me to start it up. Then again I was a software developer in a previous life. Getting your site crawled by google, msn, and yahoo takes time. It's been a good learning experience and made me realize I don't miss writing code. |
|
|
duncan351
12 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 12:25:22 PM
|
How are your lead results thus far?
Have you been able to get many. I don't have the list in front of me. I did this research about a month ago. As soon as a few deals are funded I'm focusing on that for my lead generation. |
|
|
philleto
1631 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 1:31:48 PM
|
| My site was finally crawled by google a few weeks ago. I've seen some traffic but nothing substantial. |
|
|
duncan351
12 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 1:42:39 PM
|
| Are you paying for a pay per click or relying on search results without PPC? Are there any other methods you are using to get your site seen? |
|
|
rookieLO
53 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 7:50:20 PM
|
for those that have websites,
how much have you put into the design and development of the site? |
|
|
jeffg
1031 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 8:59:57 PM
|
For the rest of us that are not "computer geeks," (no offense, I say this with the most reverance and respect for your knowledge as I can't spell compuuuuuuttttttter codeeeee) what is PPC or "crawled" by Google.
I'm in the process of wanting a website, but still can't figure it out. I don't want to do it, as I'll be there for the next lunar eclipse figuring it out, but I'm in the hunt for a reasonable solution.
Can you guys explain what you meant about Overture or Google a little? I find most loan officers, when they get a "good lead generator" they don't want to share, as they want the gold for themselves. I'm not looking for your "secret," just an explanation of what NOT to do or blow money on design development that you and Darin know.
Any ideas and explanations are greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Jeff Gruhler
Broker/Loan Officer
American Fidelity Mortgage |
|
|
Darin Ferraro
7813 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 9:32:54 PM
|
Jeff, PPC means Pay Per Click. Google and Yahoo (Overture) have the biggest PPC search engines services. Basically you bid on a keyword and when someone types it into their search, all the advertisers ads show up on the side of the results, in order of bid.
My beef with Google's version of the system (Adwords) is that they also use the CTR (Click through Ratio) in their ranking calculation. So you may be bidding 10 bucks a click but because people are clicking more on the 8 buck a click ad you get shoved down the list a bit. This defeats the purpose of PPC in my opinion.
As far as crawling is concerned.. the search engines have software programs running on thousands of machines which are programmed to 'crawl' a webpage and extract the data. The data is then analyzed and categorized into their large search databases called indexes. The spider software crawls a page then categorizes the links on that page and follows those links to other related websites. This happens continuously throughout the month and then at some point/stage the indexes get updated with the new webpages.
Depending on how many related websites link to yours, and how much information your site has, how often it is updated, and how respected the sites that keep links to you are, will determine your ranking in the search results when someone types a keyword or phrase related to the content on your webpages.
So the real problem here is.. if you don't know what you are doing, your chances of getting any traffic from the search engines for popular search keywords is almost nil.
Hate to burst your bubble. But you'll have to partner up with someone who knows what hes doing as soon as he releases his lead network.. hint hint. |
|
|
jeffg
1031 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 9:53:45 PM
|
Thanks, Darin. Go read my long post to Sanjeet. I'll pay for leads. Would prefer to let people that are knowlegable in your field do what you do best. I wish lead providers would scrutinize the **** out of who gets in. Make sure they can sell, interview them, then only work with those folks.
On your site, Darin, I notice when I type in Google the words: Las Vegas loans----you're there not on the right with the sponsored ad, but in the middle for searches. Do you pay for this?
I always wondered, like a lead company like Mleads or others I've used. How much money did they make selling leads? If they took a percentage of the deal (I know they aren't licensed by the state, etc., but some type of lead price tied to performance of the lead), would they make more money?
If the answer is no to this question, and the leads suck, look at all the ragging that goes on your site, Darin, of unhappy loan officers! The lead companies I've used, forgot who the customer really is----- not the lead, they typed in info for free! It's the loan officer/mortgage broker who's paying for the damn lead!
I'm not a "loser salesman," etc. that I've been told by lead providers, etc. But if the lead hangs up on the damn phone, won't let me get passed a hello, how do you feel about spending your money?
I don't care where the lead comes from. I'll pay more than $25, but I want an honest chance at someone that is real!
There are only so many borrowers to go around. There isn't any of us who couldn't close most of what gets signed each day. The ones that aren't serious, no one will get them.
Mortgage leads----long term, if that company thinks long term---will only work for the provider if they ultimately work for the broker/loan officer.
Again, just curious, Darin, how do you "come up" in the search info----is that what you pay google for?
I'll pay for your knowledge. I'm just wanting to bring on more loan officers and give them a REAL site of mine, but a chance at real leads.
Thanks,
Jeff Gruhler
Broker/Loan Officer
American Fidelity Mortgage |
|
|
Darin Ferraro
7813 Posts |
Posted - 04/26/2005 : 10:08:01 PM
|
Amazingly, I don't get much traffic with that keyword phrase, I don't think I'm ranked well for that. But not many people type that phrase. Although you and I think of very simple common phrases we think people type in, they really dont :)
Natural listings is where all the traffic comes from, the NON paid listings. The ads on the right are about 1/3 effective in determining what people are searching for.
A little experimentation in the PPC area will give you enough information to know which phrase to target.
Its a long complicated process which requires extensive computer/software knowledge. I never reveal my SECRETS but give GOOD info which will lead someone to the correct methods and ideas needed to get traffic. If I gave my real secrets away, I'd have no traffic for myself.. like you said, there are only so many customers.
There is only one internet (so far). But it comes down to numbers.
If your customer is driving down the street, and you owned 100 of the 150 stores on that street, all with different names, colors, signs, and products. Are your chances of that customer pulling into one of your stores better than if you only owned one?
Same thing applies for the internet. People think by buying a domain name and putting up some pretty website, they will generate business. NOT.
|
|
|
duncan351
12 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2005 : 12:06:59 AM
|
Well put Darin. Guys there is alot of research put into this to make a site competative and get traffic. Some of this info is often times paid for. I have an IT background myself and I'm able to interpret what Darin is saying but that's due to my years of internet knowledge and my research. The key to being successful in the PPC relm is the phrases that you'd image they are is far from correct.
I'm sorry guys, not being a prick but it took lots of late nights and bad decissions and lost revenue to figure out the truth to PPC.
The info is out there but it takes alot of research to put yourself in the right position.
But Darin gave a great anology. This is basically it in a nut shell. |
|
|
jeffg
1031 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2005 : 12:56:02 AM
|
I agree. You'll pay for that knowledge, either up front to get it, or the school of hard knocks-----which I've found, is much more expensive!
We have all different skill sets. Computer people and sales people====Corporate America treats both like crap! They try to bring their "management degree" to these two different personalities and don't realize that both are "artists" in their craft.
This is why I'm such an effective sales manager---- I sell and understand most salespeople want to be left alone! So, do programmers-----they want their work appreciated and respected for their work.
Personally, my Dad's always tried for the past 20 years to "show me computer stuff," I DO NOT have the skill set for it, nor the understanding. Both sales skill, and computer skill are needed to harness the power of the Internet.
Is there anyone out there in CA that is getting a lot of leads but "losing them" to inexperienced loan officers? Or if you're getting them, and willing to be honest, having trouble closing the deal? If so, let me know! We can split the deal. I'll do it all: sell it, process it, fund it, and split the deal 50/50 with you. Just remember, in CA, if you work for another broker, only one broker can be used.
If you need some help teaming up, let me know, come work for me, and I'll make sure you make some money. Some people are better on the computer screen----me, I'm better with the customer on the phone. 50% of something is better than all of nothing! Here it's 1:00 a.m., I'm still working for free here, no TV tonight, any other loan officer (if you're a broker reading this) you might have is probably asleep or something else. If you need any closing help, let's not let pride stand in the way of us doing business---give me a call!
I just can't get enough of talking with the customer----I'd have to spend more in marketing than my return to achieve it to be profitable. I want to talk to more customers on the phone, not because I need the money, but it's the only thing I like about the business. Anyone need help making calls? Let's partner up on a conference call. Remember, I did't make the DRE rules----if you're a loan officer with some other broker, I can't pay you directly, so decide what you'd like to do.
Thanks,
Jeff Gruhler
Broker/Loan Officer
American Fidelity Mortgage |
|
|
rookieLO
53 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2005 : 04:39:03 AM
|
Question for everyone,
if you dont mind me asking, how much do you guys budget for your online advertising/marketing monthly? |
|
|
Darin Ferraro
7813 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2005 : 08:42:40 AM
|
Hey Rookie,
I know I should, but I don't budget for marketing. Any new idea or system I come across or think up, I try.
"Test Test Test"
I test everything more than once and at different times during the month/year to see how it works. Everything you do works, its a matter of finding that sweet spot for timing or wording, or look.
Marketing money is an investment, thats how I look at it. I always get a return when you average out all the different marketing tactics. So as long as you refine and double up on the things that work well, you will always be ahead when you want to experiment with something new.
One very important tip, when someone calls, ALWAYS ask them how they got your name and number, where, when, who? This is the only way to know what type of marketing is working better so you can log that and increase that method in some way.
I think putting a budget on your marketing is like putting a cap on how many customers you want.
|
|
|
lenderama
887 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2005 : 08:46:39 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by duncan351
I getting ready to have a professional website built comparable to ameriquest and a few others.
In the past, I have worked as a sales rep for both Lion and Myers Internet (two of the 3 market leaders in mortgage web design). I sold everything from templates, to massive enterprise systems. My experience, from the feedback I received, was that the guys who had massive sites built, really didn't fare any better in traffic than those with some of the more modest ones. No broker has the online budget to go head to head with Countrywide (with one third of the web market all to themselves), so why try? Keep your web site simple and use the money you have saved on marketing.
Also, anyone serious about generating business of the web, should really try to learn it's language. HTML is easier to pickup than Spanish, or even Texas Holdem. A great free way to learn is to use the tutorials at http://www.htmlgoodies.com . This is how I learned it.
One thought on PPC. Make your keywords local. I know a few brokers that have more success by adding the names of the cities they market in, to their keyword list. It's less traffic, but more likely in follow through.
|
|
|
philleto
1631 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2005 : 09:27:59 AM
|
Tips from a former software developer.
- ALWAYS USE BLUE! Studies have shown that it's the most eye pleasing color.
- HTML is really simple but it takes time to become proficient.
- People prefer the simple over the complex. Substance over style.
- PPC does work. I sold a realtor on the idea and he uses it exclusively.
- Star Wars Episode III comes out May 19th.
|
|
|
Darin Ferraro
7813 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2005 : 09:54:30 AM
|
| Most importantly Phil, I already have my opening night tickets to SWEIII for Mayt 18th at midnight! |
|
|
philleto
1631 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2005 : 10:04:32 AM
|
Darin-
FYI -- George Lucas is coming out with a SW television series similar to the Young Indiana Jones. I'm such a geek! |
|
|
jeffg
1031 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2005 : 10:16:02 AM
|
It's amazing you guys are really into Star Wars. I'm not that old, but remember the hype when the first one came out in 1976. Seems like old Lucas has a new following. Enjoy the movie----I haven't been to one in years. Why? Because the last time was when I brought my 5 and 7 year old (they're 9 and 7 now) Hollywood's insatiable appetite to show R rated trailers in my kid's G rated film----that was it for me! This should be illegal! If you don't have kids, this **** doesn't bother you. But if you're trying to raise decent kids, you can't stand all the cussing, sexual inuendos, and "angst" humor on the screen.
As you guys can tell, I like to write. I used to write movie screenplays. Any of you out there that want to try it or would like to collaborate----let me know, I still have some great "action thrillers" in my head!
Thanks,
Jeff Gruhler
Broker/Loan Officer
American Fidelity Mortgage |
|
|
Darin Ferraro
7813 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2005 : 10:28:35 AM
|
Jeff just make sure when the movie comes out, that the action hero busts through a huge lit up billboard that says "BROKEROUTPOST.COM"
Got it? |
|
|
jeffg
1031 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2005 : 1:28:36 PM
|
No problemo! I used to live in Beverly Hills when I was trying to "make it in Hollywood." The best "sales job," on me, came from 2 producers that liked my first script. They met me at the most expensive restaurant, ordered up Grand Marnier's for themselves, I was broke at the time, I paid, and they wanted me to pay THEM for a re-write on my script to the tune of $5,000. Great experience for you all on "who's selling who on the call?"
Enjoy, today, I'm taking it easy not working much.
Thanks,
Jeff Gruhler
Broker/Loan Officer
American Fidelity Mortgage |
|
|
Darin Ferraro
7813 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2005 : 4:21:03 PM
|
| Jeff I hear you're moving, let me know if you need a loan okay? I only charge 1% origination, $500 broker, and $495 processing fee. |
|
|
jeffg
1031 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2005 : 4:34:18 PM
|
Jeff will need a loan down the road, but moving to Newport Beach---one of the most expensive places in the country----it'll be awhile. Gonna need to "fire up" the sales blade and make some money to pay for the place. It's such a rip there----$1,000,000 for a 760 sq ft. 1 BR, 1 Ba condo that was built in 1962.
I know, I need my head re-examined for going back, but I've left Southern Cal 3 times, only because of how expensive it got. I miss the beach and my home away from office at the Wild Rivers WaterPark. I did a deal there once dripping wet in my bathing suit----different lifestyle there, but I love it and this time, I'm going to stay!
Watch out Southern Cal Brokers----you're on notice, don't train your loan officers, I'm picking up one by one-----I'm coming back to "clean the clock!"
Thanks, for all the support everyone!
Jeff |
|
|
captivereef
2856 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2005 : 08:36:10 AM
|
| Be careful with pay per click. I run a online business www.captivereefs.com and my pay per clicks just to be competetive were over $200 per day.If you can get some SEO done you will be better off in the long run. Plus alot of net shoppers are just looking for the lowest price/best deal so be prepared for that. I will say that overture (yahoo, alta vista, etc) is much better then google. Google uses money alot faster then overture does. |
|
|
philleto
1631 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2005 : 08:46:03 AM
|
Darin,
Does brokeroutpost have a section devoted to link exchange?
Phil |
|
|
duncan351
12 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2005 : 09:39:00 AM
|
[/quote] I will say that overture (yahoo, alta vista, etc) is much better then google. Google uses money alot faster then overture does.
[/quote]
Yea, this was the conclusion I came to as well. "SEO", what is that?
My mind is slow this morning. Search Engine ....... |
|
|
philleto
1631 Posts |
Posted - 05/02/2005 : 10:12:52 AM
|
| Search Engine Optimization |
|
|
| |
Previous Topic | Next Topic |
|
|
|
