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Corny
2159 Posts |
 Posted - 07/22/2006 : 07:41:49 AM
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in today's Wall Street Journal Online
July 22, 2006
New Headache For Homeowners: Inflated Appraisals
Rosy Valuations, Common In Boom, Now Haunt Sellers;
'It's Pay-the-Piper Time'
By JAMES R. HAGERTY and RUTH SIMON
July 22, 2006; Page A1
As the housing market cools, Americans are confronting a problem that was easy to ignore during the boom: inflated appraisals of home values.
Critics inside and outside the appraisal business have long warned that many appraisals are unrealistically high. That's partly because generous appraisals help loan officers and mortgage brokers, who often choose the appraiser, complete more deals. If a home is appraised at less than the buyer offered, the deal is likely to fall through.
Inflated appraisals didn't matter much when home prices were rising at double-digit rates, since market values would quickly catch up. Now, however, prices are leveling off in many places and falling in some. Some homeowners are finding that the market value is below what past appraisals led them to believe.
For sellers, that can mean being forced to drop their asking prices. Some people hoping to refinance, meanwhile, may be unable to lock in new loan terms because they have less equity in their homes than they thought. Lenders and mortgage investors, too, could take a hit if it turns out the collateral backing their loan is worth less than expected.
Most homeowners have enough equity in their homes so they don't need to worry much about whether past appraisals were realistic. But dubious appraisals are a risk for the hundreds of thousands of people who in the past few years have bought homes with little or no down payment, or used almost all of their home equity to finance home improvements or other types of spending. That has left these people with little financial cushion to deal with rising interest rates.
"Now it's pay-the-piper time for people, and they're finding out they don't have the value in the house they thought they had," says John Taylor, president of the National Community Reinvestment Coalition, a Washington-based nonprofit that supports low-income housing.
Karen Ammon, who works for an auto-parts marketing company in Bloomfield Hills, Mich., bought her home in 2002 for $141,000. A year later, a lender encouraged her to refinance into a larger loan that would let her pay off credit-card debt. The appraiser chosen by the lender had great news: Her house was now valued at $175,000. She had room to raise her total mortgage borrowings to $165,000.
Now monthly payments on the adjustable-rate loan she received in 2003 are rising in line with the general level of interest rates. So Ms. Ammon wants to refinance into a fixed-rate loan. But when she tried to refinance, she couldn't do so because several appraisers valued her home at around $148,000 -- or about $15,000 less than she owes in mortgage debt.
Appraisals are only opinions, and appraisers often disagree on the value of a home. But wide discrepancies can mean that at least one of the estimates was unrealistic. No one can say how many appraisals are unreliable. Still, Iowa Assistant Attorney General Patrick Madigan, who coordinates with law-enforcement officials from other states on mortgage-related issues, believes the deliberate inflation of appraisals is "widespread" among loans to subprime borrowers, or those with flawed credit histories. Jacquie Doty, an executive at Freddie Mac, a big provider of funding for home mortgages, predicts that inflated appraisals will lead to more foreclosures.
In the 1980s, inflated appraisals were one factor in the loan losses that sank many savings-and-loan institutions that were holding collateral worth less than they believed. Today, most loans are sold to investors and risks are more spread out, making it less likely that poor appraisals would cause lenders to collapse. But many people in the real-estate industry believe the appraisal system is over |
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gfe
1203 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 08:16:38 AM
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yup, it's gonna be a problem. it always has been, i suppose. just now, values aren't catching up down the road.
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mudshark
3921 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 08:30:04 AM
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It is a problem and that is where the reviewer comes into play. Most review firms will catch tampered appraisals and are being extra cautious. Especially here in CA where the general market is slowing down as the equity train grinds to a halt or even slams into reverse.
LOs and realtors need to know that a cut in the value could occur, especially if they tried to inflate the appraisal.
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cochise
7 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 3:05:29 PM
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Contact the Harris Company, Real Estate Appraisers and Consultants
http://www.harriscompanyrec.com
quote:
Originally posted by mudshark
It is a problem and that is where the reviewer comes into play. Most review firms will catch tampered appraisals and are being extra cautious. Especially here in CA where the general market is slowing down as the equity train grinds to a halt or even slams into reverse.
LOs and realtors need to know that a cut in the value could occur, especially if they tried to inflate the appraisal.
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Tony V
146 Posts |
Posted - 07/22/2006 : 3:55:51 PM
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It is a problem and that is where the reviewer comes into play. Most review firms will catch tampered appraisals and are being extra cautious. Especially here in CA where the general market is slowing down as the equity train grinds to a halt or even slams into reverse
The problem is that a pile of folks are in way over thier head, on loans that are a year or two old.....The reviewers may be much more cautious now ....but it may be to late for many. |
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johnnyboy38109
4522 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 08:37:01 AM
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Oh, this is certainly something new..........inflated appraisals.........wait, lemme check......yep, you are right, its never happened before, never been an issue before.......inflated appraisals..........issued, of course, by dishonest apppraisers.
Yet another backhanded attempt to slap brokers..........the poster is so shortsighted this should never, ever, be a problem since APPRAISERS are the ones who appraise and sign off on values, not loan officers. |
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agtw31
649 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 08:43:19 AM
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| this belongs on an appraiser board,doesnt it? |
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johnnyboy38109
4522 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 08:47:56 AM
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| Absolutely, it does. |
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gfe
1203 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 09:20:44 AM
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it was just another bait to get newbies into the fold, so corny could rail about the evils of compchecks.
no one played along. so they lost interest. you'll notice, one of the appraisers acually spammed for biz! :-) |
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Corny
2159 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 09:29:49 AM
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It's an issue that does affect all LOs/MBs. The finger pointing is just beginning and I don't think anybody involved in mortgage loans will be able to avoid it. I feel sorry for the naive, but not for those that already know better or have been taught better but choose to ignore the laws / rules.
Learn about what is, or is about to, have a major effect on YOUR business or not. Know what's coming at you so you can prepare or wait for it to hit you with a sucker punch. |
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gfe
1203 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 09:34:32 AM
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i thought i made myself clear. john was even more direct.
inflated appraisals have been a problem since lending money began.
you are the appraisers. do YOUR jobs, and it's not an issue.
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johnnyboy38109
4522 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 09:35:52 AM
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I'm gonna let this go after this....
Sir, this may be a bit of a revelation to you, but I don't need anyone to tell me what might affect my business or things to avoid, etc., and most people here don't, but.......and read close because I really mean this......even if some of us did need said advice or direction, we sure as the ****ens would not go to someone like you to get it, nor would we place any value on anything you might have to say. It does not take a mental giant to appreciate the elementary issue of inflated appraisals. |
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Corny
2159 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 11:33:17 AM
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Great! Here's another one you won't like:
http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/business/15098884.htm
Posted on Sun, Jul. 23, 2006
If appraisal is set too high, homeowner will find home difficult to sell
A question of inflation
By Gloria Irwin
Beacon Journal business writer
When mortgage counselor Fred Vaughn and his wife decided a few years ago to tap their home equity to pay off bills, he learned firsthand about one of the dirty secrets of today's lending environment.
During the home loan refinancing, an appraisal of their home put the value lower than the Vaughns expected.
The appraisal ``did not come in high enough to consolidate all the bills we wanted to,'' recalled Vaughn, who is the deputy director of the East Akron Neighborhood Development Corp. and counsels homeowners facing foreclosure.
The loan officer offered to have another appraisal done, and asked the couple to name the amount they wanted, Vaughn said.
The message was clear: The appraisal would be falsely inflated to justify the amount the couple wanted to borrow, Vaughn said.
All the Vaughns had to do was agree to go along.
He said no.
Too many consumers, though, borrow money on the basis of inflated appraisals and get stuck with homes that aren't worth what they owe on them.
If those homeowners run into trouble -- loss of a job, a medical emergency, a divorce -- they often end up in foreclosure because they can't sell the house and pay off the mortgage.
Inflated appraisals have become a serious issue during the past two years, said David Berenbaum, executive vice president of the nonprofit National Community Reinvestment Coalition in Washington, D.C. The organization describes itself as a trade association of community groups working for economic justice.
Among other activities, the coalition offers help to homeowners facing foreclosure. More than half of the people seeking help have loans based on inflated appraisals, Berenbaum said.
While the nation's housing market was growing, ``there was an attitude of the market will cure all,'' Berenbaum said.
Appraisers assumed appreciation would compensate for overvaluations, he said.
Appraisal inflation is ``a daily occurrence, depending on the client,'' said veteran appraiser Charles Flagg of Hudson. ``The typical client today is a mortgage broker who after getting an application fee... checks the credit, orders an appraisal and then tries to make the deal work based on what the homeowner says the property is worth.''
Within the mortgage industry, it's called pressure to ``hit the number.''
That's not the way it's supposed to work. Appraisals are supposed to be independently prepared, without pressure and in accordance with detailed standards.
Lenders use appraisals to assess the riskiness of a loan, whether it's for a new purchase or a refinance.
Lenders want to know what the property is worth versus the amount they are being asked to lend. That's called the loan to value, or LTV, ratio. Ideally, lenders want to see that the debt is 20 percent less than the property's worth.
That's where playing with the numbers comes in.
Flagg gave this example: Say a homeowner owes $80,000 on a home worth $100,000 and wants to borrow $8,000 or so to pay off credit card debt. With refinancing costs, the new loan amount would be about $90,000.
To maintain an 80 percent loan to value ratio, the house would have to appraise at 20 percent above $90,000.
If it doesn't, the loan likely won't be approved.
To make sure of a favorable appraisal, the mortgage broker may call several appraisers and ask whether they can show comparable sales of $110,000 or so on the property.
``It's totally illegal,'' Flagg said, ``but he may couch it in language as `We need $110,000 on this house.' It's done every day.''
Such a request ``puts the appraiser in a box he should not be in at the outset,'' said Flagg, who emphasized he won't do appraisal |
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johnnyboy38109
4522 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 11:50:52 AM
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Yes these issues persist regardless of what side of the issue you are on......kinda like the appraisal fraud I encountered last week at this exact same time.....you know, when the appraiser did not check the manuf box for a 2WMH, used stick built comps, and inflated the value by $30, at least, in my opinion.
Where you are oblivious is you think any of us actually care what your opinion is, or whether we need someone like or any other member of The Triumvirate (one of you is currently seeking advice from us pond scum brokers on another thread) to point any of this out. Its third grade, basic, elementary, roll-your-eyes stuff and it consumes your thoughts. |
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PCook
430 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 12:09:51 PM
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So John, what did you do with the manufactured home appraisal - did you turn it in? I hope so! I missed that thread!
Corny, keep up the good fight - even though all these long time mortgage folks don't need the information, cause they have been around the block, there are still a huge group of newbies who are only being taught the WRONG way to get a loan done....or are not being shown how to do their job period. Just like the appraisal sweat shops.....not getting any training - and all the wrong information! |
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cochise
7 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 12:12:40 PM
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| We have some very interesting information on our site re the appraisal institute: http://www.harriscompanyrec.com has anyone checked it out? |
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chezwick
2987 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 12:22:15 PM
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PCook,
And just where do you think the "newbies" are learning "the wrong way" from? That's right,....from those "mortgage folk...(that) have been around the block". Case in point (from Corny's article);
Consumers often play along with dubious appraisals. Danny Wiley, an appraiser in Nashville who is a member of the national Appraisal Standards Board, in May was asked by a lender to appraise a condo in Spring Hill, Tenn. The buyer had offered to pay $139,000, but the contract required the seller to pay $10,000 toward the buyer's closing costs. In effect, Mr. Wiley says, the price had been inflated by $10,000 to allow the seller to provide money to help the buyer cover closing costs.
Mr. Wiley estimated the value at $129,000, the same price at which numerous identical units in the same complex had recently been sold. That should have killed the deal. But Mr. Wiley says the sale later went through, apparently after the lender found another appraiser willing to value the condo at $139,000. Mr. Wiley declines to identify the parties involved in the transaction, citing client confidentiality.
When I started out in this business doing Gov. loans, the above scenario was practically taught verbatim in the training class.
Chez
quote:
Originally posted by PCook
So John, what did you do with the manufactured home appraisal - did you turn it in? I hope so! I missed that thread!
Corny, keep up the good fight - even though all these long time mortgage folks don't need the information, cause they have been around the block, there are still a huge group of newbies who are only being taught the WRONG way to get a loan done....or are not being shown how to do their job period. Just like the appraisal sweat shops.....not getting any training - and all the wrong information!
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johnnyboy38109
4522 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 12:23:13 PM
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| These folks who had it thrust upon last Sunday that they now owe $126200 on a $95000 piece of property, a depreciating piece of property at that, have indeed been referred an attorney I know here in Lexington. For what good it'll do.....the appraiser has long since lost his license and is addicted to cocaine. The lender has deep pockets though, evidence by the hundreds of millions of civil damages its already paid out. |
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PCook
430 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 12:29:41 PM
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| John, In that class - did they promote asking for an inflated appraisal? I doubt it!!!! Those things probably were taught, but the property HAS to have the value,,,,asking the appraiser to "play ball" is not part of lesson! |
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johnnyboy38109
4522 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 12:34:42 PM
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| There is no doubt, none at all, that the appraier snd the lender were in cahoots to pull this off.........none. If you saw the rest of the file you'd agree. |
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chezwick
2987 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 12:41:06 PM
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Sounds like another Ameriquest wonder-loan deal I imagine. 
Good thing they shut down all their branches, right? LOL!
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyboy38109
These folks who had it thrust upon last Sunday that they now owe $126200 on a $95000 piece of property, a depreciating piece of property at that, have indeed been referred an attorney I know here in Lexington. For what good it'll do.....the appraiser has long since lost his license and is addicted to cocaine. The lender has deep pockets though, evidence by the hundreds of millions of civil damages its already paid out.
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Doug
1417 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 12:43:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyboy38109
Yes these issues persist regardless of what side of the issue you are on......kinda like the appraisal fraud I encountered last week at this exact same time.....you know, when the appraiser did not check the manuf box for a 2WMH, used stick built comps, and inflated the value by $30, at least, in my opinion.
Where you are oblivious is you think any of us actually care what your opinion is, or whether we need someone like or any other member of The Triumvirate (one of you is currently seeking advice from us pond scum brokers on another thread) to point any of this out. Its third grade, basic, elementary, roll-your-eyes stuff and it consumes your thoughts.
You need a little less hate in your heart and a little more good will and make peace with everyyone. |
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snappygator
52 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 12:56:10 PM
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hhhmm inflated appraisals.....That never happens....in fact.....I wonder how that's going to work on some negatively amortizing loans now if that's all that's being paid off is the minimum balance,a nd not the full payment, if people are choosing to pay the lesser loan on some months rather than others....
I think they are a wonderful tool for investors, but I jsut have to wonder about the folks that are actually staying in their homes for 30,40, or 50 years....just a thought. Anyone have any input?
Andrea |
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PCook
430 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 1:00:00 PM
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John, I'm sure they were in cahoots! And I think that is one of the reasons we ALL need to pull together to fight the good fight! Teach the new people the right way to do loans.
Appraisers who really care, try to educate newbie LO when they call on the phone, but they should have more training on what they need to do before they call the appraiser. I have gotten requests from LO who don't even know that an appraisal order needs to be in writing! They don't even know how to forward the pdf appraisal file to a lender-underwriter!
I am here not because I want to bash LO's, but because I would like to promote helping to educate some of the newbies about appraising, and what is allowed - and what is not.....before they call me on the phone with inappropriate requests!
What Corny is doing is important, and I'm sure the message does get old to some, but there are new people joining this forum everyday...and they may be reading some of this stuff ---- for the first time!
Just my 2 cents...for what its worth!
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PCook
430 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 1:04:53 PM
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| Here - here Doug! I don't think anyone on this forum has suffered more personal attacks than Corny ----- except for - maybe Secret!!!!!!! |
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roslyngrant@sbcg
2264 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 1:14:17 PM
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| Hey, everyone is guilty when this sort of thing occurs. The LO, the appraiser, EVERYONE. LO's have been taught to do this. Appraisers are sneaking around and asking LO's to do their comp checks. The guilty ones will endure the consequences. Amen. |
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A2ZLoans
264 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 1:26:14 PM
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Does anyone know a good "inflated" appraiser!! |
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PCook
430 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 1:31:03 PM
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| Would that be for a balloon mortgage??? |
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Doug
1417 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 1:39:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by PCook
Here - here Doug! I don't think anyone on this forum has suffered more personal attacks than Corny ----- except for - maybe Secret!!!!!!!
Yes Dear!  |
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roslyngrant@sbcg
2264 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 1:47:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by PCook
John, I'm sure they were in cahoots! And I think that is one of the reasons we ALL need to pull together to fight the good fight! Teach the new people the right way to do loans.
Appraisers who really care, try to educate newbie LO when they call on the phone, but they should have more training on what they need to do before they call the appraiser. I have gotten requests from LO who don't even know that an appraisal order needs to be in writing! They don't even know how to forward the pdf appraisal file to a lender-underwriter!
I am here not because I want to bash LO's, but because I would like to promote helping to educate some of the newbies about appraising, and what is allowed - and what is not.....before they call me on the phone with inappropriate requests!
What Corny is doing is important, and I'm sure the message does get old to some, but there are new people joining this forum everyday...and they may be reading some of this stuff ---- for the first time!
Just my 2 cents...for what its worth!
PC I could not have said it better MA-self.. |
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cochise
7 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 2:09:48 PM
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| dfads |
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chezwick
2987 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 2:20:36 PM
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I've worked with many "inflated" appraisers.
Nothing wrong with feeling confident about what you do! (tee,hee)
As long as they do good work it doesn't matter to me whether their head fits through the door! LOL!!
Chez 
quote:
Originally posted by A2ZLoans
Does anyone know a good "inflated" appraiser!!
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RDwyer
3308 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 2:29:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by snappygator
hhhmm inflated appraisals.....That never happens....in fact.....I wonder how that's going to work on some negatively amortizing loans now if that's all that's being paid off is the minimum balance,a nd not the full payment, if people are choosing to pay the lesser loan on some months rather than others....
I think they are a wonderful tool for investors, but I jsut have to wonder about the folks that are actually staying in their homes for 30,40, or 50 years....just a thought. Anyone have any input?
Andrea
And people wonder why World Savings, who carries all their own notes, employs their own appraisal dept. and won't lend to 100% LTV/CLTV. Yes, 99% of our loans carry the option of deferred interest or "neg-am", but none of our loans are on inflated appraisals and all our clients have some equity at closing. I can't say as a broker that I didn't ask for a push in my early days, luckily the market was in full swing. Later, I got smarter and just rested with the solid appraisal I was given. I've come across borrowers with year-old appraisals that were inflated by as much as 20% since moving to the wholesale side. They're saddled with a loan they can't refi for years and can only sell the house by bringing cash to close. This affects everyone in the business. You can lay the blame on the appraiser if you like, but it takes two to tango. We should all be aware and self-police - otherwise, the government will eventually do it for us. |
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snappygator
52 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 5:35:04 PM
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RDwyer:
I think that it's good to have a fair appraisal of a home. And i agree with you eventually free enterprise will be regulated free enterprise therefore no longer free, if we do things like up our values heavily, and then decide we should b*tch and moan for lack of a better term when it doesn't work in our favor.
I think it's criminal to appraise too high on a house, but by the same token it's criminal to appraise too low. You're hurting people either way. So how do we determine FMV? What makes it fair? Is FMV what a buyer will pay? Is it what the market will bear, how do we determine what the market will bear? Do we survery buyers ask everyone in a genral area what they are willing to pay?
Or is it appraisers? Or is the people overbidding on homes? What's the deal? I know I should probably know all this, but I think what I am getting at is more of a how does it work, where the heck do these stats come from? I once heard that any number you come up with for anything is 85% made up. or 85% of statistics are made up on the spot. I think I am rambling on....but as real estate professionals we drive that market and we drive prices high or low. It's all about everyone involved for sure. There should be no finger pointing. If anything point fingers at the guy that sold his Leschi neighborhood shack with a rotting floor for 500k, and got his asking price. Just a thought....then you can start to point at everyone else. I think it starts with the people putting their houses on the market and escelates from there.....I know of sellers that try to get appraisals really high too.
I tend to think that if you need more cash bite the freaking bullet and take out the 125% LTV Loan. Just a thought.
Okay I have ranted enough.
Andrea |
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PCook
430 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 6:13:44 PM
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Andrea writes "I think it's criminal to appraise too high on a house, but by the same token it's criminal to appraise too low. You're hurting people either way. So how do we determine FMV? What makes it fair? Is FMV what a buyer will pay? Is it what the market will bear, how do we determine what the market will bear? Do we survery buyers ask everyone in a genral area what they are willing to pay?"
Andrea - the appraisers you hire to do appraisals have market data available to them to come up with a market value opinion. That is what MLS, other sales data service providers, local government offices, etc are used for. Along with a lot of other data....a competant appraiser - without undue influence, can do a pretty fair job. This is what the appraiser is being paid to do - analyse the market data!
The problems occur when appraisers are asked to hit a value, one that fits everyones NEEDS at the time - the homeowner, the LO or MB, & yes even the dumb appraiser who goes along with it...cause he/she gets the business, he/she finds the 'right' so-called comps..to make it work!
Honest appraisers don't want to even SEE a value on a refi order, & must ignore it if it is there! Collecting at the door from the homeowner is excellent.
Try an experiment, on your next appraisal order - don't put a homeowners' value (or anyone elses') on the order....if your appraiser calls to find out what you need ----- find a BETTER appraiser! |
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snappygator
52 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 6:30:24 PM
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Hi Pcook:
Thanks for the advice. I'll be on the lookout for that. It was nice of you to respond. I'm still learning. Thanks for helping, and giving me something concrete to go on. I know that most realtors have similar tools and one in paerticular will tell a client via a comp that something is way to high or way too low.
Not being an appraiser, I love to visit zillow.com, and I am sure most appraiser's cringe at that but I like talking with my realtor friend more, he's usually right on the money but will say he's not an appraiser go find one. He told a client once when they were lookign to purchase a 240K Townhome not to bother because everything else in the area had sold 15k less. He advised the client to tell the seller they needed to pay all closing costs, if this was in fact their angle, and to get an appraiser's report showing the sales price in the whole area.
So I am learning tons being here, it's all very helpful. THANK YOU!
Andrea |
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PCook
430 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 7:07:34 PM
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Andrea, I am glad you took my post as intended. I know that sometimes I can come across as 'bossy', but afterall - we appraisers are "opinionated".
Zillow.com is a great tool for you to use...but it is like any other computer based data - what goes in needs to be accurate, and if it is not....well, you get the point.
Zillow does not work in my area - I am in Indiana, and there is not enough information available from our state.
Also, talking to your Real Estate friend is great! They do have much of the same information that appraisers have and are an excellent source - if you are lucky enough to find one who will help. |
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snappygator
52 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 8:08:19 PM
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Nah Pcook not bossy just wanting to make sure as I think we all do that things don't go awry due to misinformation. That's very important.
When people come to me with something that I know about, and ask questions I like to give them accurate information.
Again Zillow is a tool and for the Seattle area....well more often than not tends to be accurate. However nothing stands to a written comp as to what something last sold for, and what everything comparable in Seattle area goes for.
I am trying to figure out how the local builder came up with the 500-1 million price tage for the shoe box homes going in next door to me....but I suppose calling it a cottage, *mr. yuck* face would do it. Seriously these things are smaller than my condo, not to mention just this side of ugly, but that's okay I don't mind stuff being built next door...if people will buy it...hey I have a peekaboo view. I wonder what my condos doing. :-D
Okay that's enough about that. I am once again thankful for the post and glad that you posted to me. It helps a lot to hear from those that have more expertise in things than I do. I don't run around appraising things, so if someone tells me hey my house is worth 800k well....I might buy that.
And my realtor friend is a huge investor the man owns tons of property. He will tell me if he isn't buying what the appraisal on something says. I'm glad for that.
I still hold to it if the homeowner needs more money take one of those loans that is 125% or more CLTV....the only reason I can see for this is investing in more property, but that's just my take. Call a spade a spade bite the bullet and admit hey I need more than my house is worth. Then we don't have these ballooning markets. I'm ranting again! I look at it like this if you are truly investing it in something, that's not really lost money or above and beyond a value. It's simply moving money and funds, and as long as you know what you're doing and understand the implications of that, and how to use it responsibly have at it! That's what investing is all abo[ut a little bit of your money, or none of your money and a whole lot of someone elses.
Again I'd never push for asking for more than your home was worth, this type of loan is way high risk imho, but hey if you understand the risk and are responsible it might be what you need to generate more money.
Just a thought.
Andrea |
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HAWTGUY
4276 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2006 : 10:11:44 PM
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Andrea,
If zillow.com doesn't work, give ditech.com a shot. Most good appraisers would welcome you using one of those two sites rather than you wasting their time on a comp check, value check, pencil search or whatever you wish to call it... |
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snappygator
52 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 04:54:21 AM
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I use zillow.com a lot. I'll have to familiarize myself with ditech.
Thanks for the post!
Andrea |
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snappygator
52 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 05:44:04 AM
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I'm really liking ditech. Good site. I like it a little better than Zillow.
Andrea |
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HAWTGUY
4276 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 06:35:01 AM
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| Now just keep it on your desktop so it will be handy to get to...glad you are enjoying it...remember me if you ever get anything down in southern nevada... |
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Annemieke Roell
1099 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 07:28:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by PCook
The problems occur when appraisers are asked to hit a value, one that fits everyones NEEDS at the time - the homeowner, the LO or MB, & yes even the dumb appraiser who goes along with it...cause he/she gets the business, he/she finds the 'right' so-called comps..to make it work!
I respectfully beg to differ. The problems occur when the appraiser accepts the terms of the request. LO can ask all they want ..... asking doesn't do the harm. |
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roslyngrant@sbcg
2264 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 07:38:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Annemieke Roell
quote:
Originally posted by PCook
The problems occur when appraisers are asked to hit a value, one that fits everyones NEEDS at the time - the homeowner, the LO or MB, & yes even the dumb appraiser who goes along with it...cause he/she gets the business, he/she finds the 'right' so-called comps..to make it work!
I respectfully beg to differ. The problems occur when the appraiser accepts the terms of the request. LO can ask all they want ..... asking doesn't do the harm.
Wow that is refreshing.As a loan officer I agree. NOT that I ask for value  |
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Annemieke Roell
1099 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 07:44:21 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by roslyngrant@sbcglobal.net
quote:
Originally posted by Annemieke Roell
quote:
Originally posted by PCook
The problems occur when appraisers are asked to hit a value, one that fits everyones NEEDS at the time - the homeowner, the LO or MB, & yes even the dumb appraiser who goes along with it...cause he/she gets the business, he/she finds the 'right' so-called comps..to make it work!
I respectfully beg to differ. The problems occur when the appraiser accepts the terms of the request. LO can ask all they want ..... asking doesn't do the harm.
Wow that is refreshing.As a loan officer I agree. NOT that I ask for value
Well, after all, I HAVE been referred in the past by some of your peers on this forum as the "happy appraiser" :D |
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Gork
84 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 07:54:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by johnnyboy38109
I'm gonna let this go after this....
Sir, this may be a bit of a revelation to you, but I don't need anyone to tell me what might affect my business or things to avoid, etc., and most people here don't, but.......and read close because I really mean this......even if some of us did need said advice or direction, we sure as the ****ens would not go to someone like you to get it, nor would we place any value on anything you might have to say. It does not take a mental giant to appreciate the elementary issue of inflated appraisals.
Oh, my. Another Rocket Scientist turned mortgage broker who knows everything.
/I'm shocked... |
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chezwick
2987 Posts |
Posted - 07/24/2006 : 10:23:13 AM
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"I'm gonna let this go after this...."
I'm beginning to see a pattern of speech in your different posts Johnnyboy. Besides expressing your anger, you're dismissive nature does nothing to add credibility to your viewpoint or intelligence about this business. In general, you seem to be mad at everything and everyone. Just an observation.
Of course I could be wrong. 
Chez
quote:
Originally posted by Gork
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyboy38109
I'm gonna let this go after this....
Sir, this may be a bit of a revelation to you, but I don't need anyone to tell me what might affect my business or things to avoid, etc., and most people here don't, but.......and read close because I really mean this......even if some of us did need said advice or direction, we sure as the ****ens would not go to someone like you to get it, nor would we place any value on anything you might have to say. It does not take a mental giant to appreciate the elementary issue of inflated appraisals.
Oh, my. Another Rocket Scientist turned mortgage broker who knows everything.
/I'm shocked...
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Gork
84 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 5:53:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by chezwick
Of course I could be wrong.
You are.
/Don't quite your day job, Dr. Freud... |
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Tray
39 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 6:13:29 PM
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I scanned throught eh entire thread and didn't see this idea from anyone so I though i would share my two cents.
Aren't appraisals based on recent sales in the area? If so, then a year ago when people were selling there homes for say $500K because homes were appreciating so fast, someone would jump on it in hopes it could sell for $600K a year from then. All homes in that area would appraise for around $500K, right? And that would be a fair and honest appraisal.
But now, when it's harder to sell your home in the same neighborhood as the $500K home, sellers are lowering their prices just so it will sell after being on the market for 9 months. So a fair appriasal would reflect recent sales in the area of anywhere from $475K to $510K.
So it's not that anyone was at fault, inflating appraisals on purpose. They were all fair, reflecting the current times.
Make sense? |
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PCook
430 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 6:30:56 PM
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| Annemieke, You are entitled to your opinion. The old 'which came first, the chicken or the egg arguement! |
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chezwick
2987 Posts |
Posted - 07/25/2006 : 7:30:36 PM
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What's "certified" Gork?
I can only imagine.
quote:
Originally posted by Gork
quote:
Originally posted by chezwick
Of course I could be wrong.
You are.
/Don't quite your day job, Dr. Freud...
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