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Originally posted by miramar

Exactly Darkstar. These are words out of his own mouth. He would rather let us run up $100 Billion a year when people are starving and out of work so he can take over health care than to fix the problem. Isn't that the total savings of his big plan over ten years? He could save us as much money as his whole plan over ten years in 1 year by fixing this Medicare issue. Imagine if he would do this with all of the other departments.

The problem when you are a liar is that eventually your lies will catch up with you.

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quote:

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Originally posted by miramar

Exactly Darkstar. These are words out of his own mouth. He would rather let us run up $100 Billion a year when people are starving and out of work so he can take over health care than to fix the problem. Isn't that the total savings of his big plan over ten years? He could save us as much money as his whole plan over ten years in 1 year by fixing this Medicare issue. Imagine if he would do this with all of the other departments.

The problem when you are a liar is that eventually your lies will catch up with you.

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quote:

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Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy

Republicans proved that in 2008.

quote:

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Originally posted by miramar

Exactly Darkstar. These are words out of his own mouth. He would rather let us run up $100 Billion a year when people are starving and out of work so he can take over health care than to fix the problem. Isn't that the total savings of his big plan over ten years? He could save us as much money as his whole plan over ten years in 1 year by fixing this Medicare issue. Imagine if he would do this with all of the other departments.

The problem when you are a liar is that eventually your lies will catch up with you.

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Originally posted by darkstar

>>>>"Improper payments cost taxpayers almost $100 billion last year alone,"

Instead of cutting that off last year, we lost another $100B because he wanted all or nothing instead of doing something that would have helped him sell his plan...

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quote:

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Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy

"To hell with it all. Someone always lied to someone and there has always been deficit spending. Why worry ourselves about political integrity and mathematics in general? It's the way it always was and will be. Succumb to it. Accept it."

The above is an understandable statement of frustration for sure ... and sarcasm noted.

Seriously though, I do believe that we are going to be living with budget deficits for a long time ... a decade or more. Both parties will have ample opportunity to take a stab at doing something about it. This is the Dems time and we happen to be stuck with an economy on life support ... so reducing the deficits is not, snd should not, be as high a priority as addressing problems with the wars, fixing structural problems with healthcare [tied to future economic growth] and nursing the economy to get jobs engines restarted.

We have some interesting situations developing at the State level across the country. New Jersey, Florida and California are a few to watch. It would be interesting to see how the States react to the budget deficits they are all facing. There will be a variety of actions taken by govenors and legislatures to deal with the problem but I do not see tax cuts as a component in any of them. There will be painful budget cuts to be sure as some states have laws that require balanced budgets and others will be balancing their desire to moved towards balanced budgets while trying to not decimate their local economies and communities.

I do not mean to minimize your ongoing expressions of frustration and criticisms of the current administration and Congress as they relate to the economy and budget deficits. I am simply saying that to expect draconian actions to quickly close budget gaps across the country is unrealistic.

Carry on ... please.

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quote:

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Originally posted by homer5

quote:

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Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy

"To hell with it all. Someone always lied to someone and there has always been deficit spending. Why worry ourselves about political integrity and mathematics in general? It's the way it always was and will be. Succumb to it. Accept it."

The above is an understandable statement of frustration for sure ... and sarcasm noted.

Seriously though, I do believe that we are going to be living with budget deficits for a long time ... a decade or more. Both parties will have ample opportunity to take a stab at doing something about it. This is the Dems time and we happen to be stuck with an economy on life support ... so reducing the deficits is not, snd should not, be as high a priority as addressing problems with the wars, fixing structural problems with healthcare [tied to future economic growth] and nursing the economy to get jobs engines restarted.

We have some interesting situations developing at the State level across the country. New Jersey, Florida and California are a few to watch. It would be interesting to see how the States react to the budget deficits they are all facing. There will be a variety of actions taken by govenors and legislatures to deal with the problem but I do not see tax cuts as a component in any of them. There will be painful budget cuts to be sure as some states have laws that require balanced budgets and others will be balancing their desire to moved towards balanced budgets while trying to not decimate their local economies and communities.

I do not mean to minimize your ongoing expressions of frustration and criticisms of the current administration and Congress as they relate to the economy and budget deficits. I am simply saying that to expect draconian actions to quickly close budget gaps across the country is unrealistic.

Carry on ... please.

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A well thought out response.

There are mathematically sustainable budget deficits and unsustainable ones. We cannot assume that all budget deficits are sustainable and govern accordingly. When deficits become the cause of financial malaise as opposed to being a symptom of it, the priority of avoiding deficits takes on a much higher urgency. It's okay to have a benign view of budget deficits provided they are mathematically sustainable don't increase systemic risk. Neither can be said about our current and exponentially growing budget deficit.

What is unfolding at the state and municipal levels will indeed have a profound impact on our lives and the economy. Probably more so than what is happening on a national level (health care politics excluded). And it's just starting. In my eyes, a big issue here is the disparity among public and private sector wages. The idea that public employee compensation should be 50% to 100% higher than the very people supporting their salaries is mind boggling to most. I expect major layoffs and cut backs in this sector for the months to come. The pain will be palpable.

My frustration lies within the broader label of political leadership. We don't have any or very little from both parties. Though both parties leave their constituents short, like deficits, differentiation needs to be made. Put simply they are both bad. However a closer look will reveal that any one party can be the most destructive at any one time. It's no secret which party I believe that is.

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quote:

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Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy

I am watching Florida's financial situation closely. This is not a producing State and tourism is but a small fraction of what it was back in the day. Housing, which has been a boon to Florida, is and will be, comatose for years to come. Republicans are in charge all over the State. Locally, people are starting to scream as mayors are starting to break the news that there will be massive budget cuts while tax revenue [remember that we have no State income tax] continues to decrease. the cost of salaries and benefits for municipal workers is at the top of the list. Schools will be closed and there will be huge municipal layoffs.

This makes for a facinating study in "conservative" government policies and management. The Republicans have another opportunity at the State level to demonstrate that their "solutions" can work. Let's see if they can actually do so.

quote:

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Originally posted by homer5

quote:

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Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy

"To hell with it all. Someone always lied to someone and there has always been deficit spending. Why worry ourselves about political integrity and mathematics in general? It's the way it always was and will be. Succumb to it. Accept it."

The above is an understandable statement of frustration for sure ... and sarcasm noted.

Seriously though, I do believe that we are going to be living with budget deficits for a long time ... a decade or more. Both parties will have ample opportunity to take a stab at doing something about it. This is the Dems time and we happen to be stuck with an economy on life support ... so reducing the deficits is not, snd should not, be as high a priority as addressing problems with the wars, fixing structural problems with healthcare [tied to future economic growth] and nursing the economy to get jobs engines restarted.

We have some interesting situations developing at the State level across the country. New Jersey, Florida and California are a few to watch. It would be interesting to see how the States react to the budget deficits they are all facing. There will be a variety of actions taken by govenors and legislatures to deal with the problem but I do not see tax cuts as a component in any of them. There will be painful budget cuts to be sure as some states have laws that require balanced budgets and others will be balancing their desire to moved towards balanced budgets while trying to not decimate their local economies and communities.

I do not mean to minimize your ongoing expressions of frustration and criticisms of the current administration and Congress as they relate to the economy and budget deficits. I am simply saying that to expect draconian actions to quickly close budget gaps across the country is unrealistic.

Carry on ... please.

---

A well thought out response.

There are mathematically sustainable budget deficits and unsustainable ones. We cannot assume that all budget deficits are sustainable and govern accordingly. When deficits become the cause of financial malaise as opposed to being a symptom of it, the priority of avoiding deficits takes on a much higher urgency. It's okay to have a benign view of budget deficits provided they are mathematically sustainable don't increase systemic risk. Neither can be said about our current and exponentially growing budget deficit.

What is unfolding at the state and municipal levels will indeed have a profound impact on our lives and the economy. Probably more so than what is happening on a national level (health care politics excluded). And it's just starting. In my eyes, a big issue here is the disparity among public and private sector wages. The idea that public employee compensation should be 50% to 100% higher than the very people supporting their salaries is mind boggling to most. I expect major layoffs and cut backs in this sector for the months to come. The pain will be palpable.

My frustration lies within the broader label of political leadership. We don't have any or very little from both parties. Though both parties leave their constituents short, like deficits, differentiation needs to be made. Put simply they are both bad. However a closer look will reveal that any one party can be the most destructive at any one time. It's no secret which party I believe that is.

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