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lemeuss
1862 Posts |
 Posted - 07/02/2009 : 11:03:11 AM
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Here it is, the be all, end all solution to HVCC..
In 2 steps
1) HVCC is abolished
2) Every appraiser is to be informed of the following logic and made aware of it...
If each and every appraiser realized that if NONE of them give into brokers, then brokers will have no threat or power, nor will lenders. Problem solved! If brokers CANT take an appraisal order to another appraiser who will appease their sad request for a certain value, problem will be solved, no more cost to borrower, no more extended turn time.
TA DA |
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rescomstl@yahoo.
88 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 11:38:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lemeuss
Here it is, the be all, end all solution to HVCC..
In 2 steps
1) HVCC is abolished
2) Every appraiser is to be informed of the following logic and made aware of it...
If each and every appraiser realized that if NONE of them give into brokers, then brokers will have no threat or power, nor will lenders. Problem solved! If brokers CANT take an appraisal order to another appraiser who will appease their sad request for a certain value, problem will be solved, no more cost to borrower, no more extended turn time.
TA DA
Great theory! Now, if only there was a way to get all 100,000 appraisers to pull off that miracle. |
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Hopland
4126 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 1:56:51 PM
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d'oh!
Why didn't we think of that?! It's so simple and so logical.
Why don't we just ask that anyone invovled in originating a loan swear that they won't try to have any sort of influence on the appraiser, will never ask for values in advance, will promise that the appraiser gets paid even when there is bad news, will send more orders even when there was bad news on the last few orders and promise if they don't like the value they won't try to get another appraisal.
That would make even better sense because appraisers already made the promise my new and ameussing friend proposed above when they signed for their license from the state. |
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lemeuss
1862 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 2:01:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hopland
d'oh!
Why didn't we think of that?! It's so simple and so logical.
Why don't we just ask that anyone invovled in originating a loan swear that they won't try to have any sort of influence on the appraiser, will never ask for values in advance, will promise that the appraiser gets paid even when there is bad news, will send more orders even when there was bad news on the last few orders and promise if they don't like the value they won't try to get another appraisal.
That would make even better sense because appraisers already made the promise my new and ameussing friend proposed above when they signed for their license from the state.
I'll agree with the above. If a borrower wants to pay for another appraisal, that's their call....as an appraisal is an opinion of value, if someone else that's licensed has an opinion (mind you, with no outside influence) that the value is higher and makes a deal fit within guidelines, I'm OK with that. |
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Hopland
4126 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 2:23:49 PM
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quote:
I'll agree with the above. If a borrower wants to pay for another appraisal, that's their call....as an appraisal is an opinion of value, if someone else that's licensed has an opinion (mind you, with no outside influence) that the value is higher and makes a deal fit within guidelines, I'm OK with that.
I'll agree with you. As long as you send both reports to the real intended user of the appraisal(s). You have an ethical quandry otherwise. |
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bonafide
57 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 2:24:53 PM
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A bill to Suspend HVCC is currently in the House Financial Services Committee awaiting a vote. Below is a link of all the congressmen/women in the committee. Please click the link, and if you live in one of the districts the congressmen/women represent call, email and notify them if they don’t pass the bill they will loose your support and vote in the upcoming election.
Don’t brush this aside and hope your neighbor will pick up your slack, they won’t. We all hate HVCC and now is our one and only opportunity to fight back!
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/committee.xpd?id=HSBA
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jstar
1230 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 2:41:01 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hopland
quote:
I'll agree with the above. If a borrower wants to pay for another appraisal, that's their call....as an appraisal is an opinion of value, if someone else that's licensed has an opinion (mind you, with no outside influence) that the value is higher and makes a deal fit within guidelines, I'm OK with that.
I'll agree with you. As long as you send both reports to the real intended user of the appraisal(s). You have an ethical quandry otherwise.
Why would this be an ethical "quandary"?.... Actually... why would appraised values differ from one report to another on the same property?
How do you determine who was right?
Is the higher appraisal always wrong? Is the low ball appraisal any less negligent than a pushed value?
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Hopland
4126 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 2:51:54 PM
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The ethical quandry is that the broker knows there are two opinions of value from an appraiser. One value will not allow the loan on the desired terms and the other value will allow the loan. Since the broker is not lending their own money it would not be ethical to not inform the one who is lending the money that there are two opinions.
Why are there two opinions of value on the same property? Because appraiser's don't have a big book to look up the value. It's an opinion. Neither opinion is wrong and neither opinion is right. Opinions are not right or wrong. They're just opinions which can be supported or not supported, reasonable or not reasonable, credible or not credible.
An opinion of market value is just an answer to this question: What is the most probable price the property would have sold for on the date of value, assuming both buyer and seller are well informed and acting in their own interest and assuming the property was adequately exposed to the open market and that the sale terms are in cash or cash equivalency.
We're "guessing" about a hypothetcal sales price. A sale that will never happen, a sale that cannot happen. No one is telling us what that sale price is. We have to analyze data that infers what a sales price of the subject would have been. Not all differences in what causes a property to sell for the price it sold for can be adjusted. Markets are not perfect because people are not perfect.
**Edit: Notice in the definition of market value, "Most probable price..." How can an opinion of market value be characterised as "accurate" when by definition it is merely most "probable?"
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Adept Appraisal
1623 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 2:52:26 PM
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There is a degree of subjectivity to this business. The truth is that sound appraisal mechanics *should* be universal, but even there we fall short of one another. Methods do tend to be personal, condition is subjective, a firm understanding of the market trends, and how to apply them within the report, might not always clear, etc...
However, your point is valid, there shouldn't be a major difference in value from report to report, 5% would not be odd, but larger than that you may need to challenge methodology.
At least IMNSHO, anyway.
Dave... |
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lemeuss
1862 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 3:01:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hopland
The ethical quandry is that the broker knows there are two opinions of value from an appraiser. One value will not allow the loan on the desired terms and the other value will allow the loan. Since the broker is not lending their own money it would not be ethical to not inform the one who is lending the money that there are two opinions.
Why are there two opinions of value on the same property? Because appraiser's don't have a big book to look up the value. It's an opinion. Neither opinion is wrong and neither opinion is right. Opinions are not right or wrong. They're just opinions which can be supported or not supported, reasonable or not reasonable, credible or not credible.
An opinion of market value is just an answer to this question: What is the most probably price the property would have sold for on the date of value, assuming both buyer and seller are well informed and acting in their own interest and assuming the property was adequately exposed to the open market and that the sale terms are in cash or cash equivalency.
We're "guessing" about a hypothetcal sales price. A sale that will never happen, a sale that cannot happen. No one is telling us what that sale price is. We have to analyze data that infers what a sales price of the subject would have been. Not all differences in what causes a property to sell for the price it sold for can be adjusted. Markets are not perfect because people are not perfect.
Here's an ethical quandary for ya, not that this would ever happen, but a hypomethedical.
10 appraisals are done on a property. One comes in at $250K, one at $300K, one at $299K, etc etc.....every appraisal except for the $250K comes in between $295-$315K.
Which appraisal (in this market, mind you) is a lender likely to go off of? My guess is the $250 (lowest value/opinion). Is this ethical, even if that appraisal is of lesser quality? If so, and knowing this, is it unethical for a broker to send whichever opinion they feel is of greater value? (in reality, yes, we're led by need to pay bills to consider higher opinion= greater value) but if the one w/higher $$$ value happened to be more quality, more specific adjustments, more explanations, etc. In this case I don't think it's wrong to send the one appraisal, because lenders aren't acting rationally OR ethically in this market. |
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Hopland
4126 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 3:21:40 PM
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quote:
because lenders aren't acting rationally OR ethically in this market.
Is it any wonder?
quote:
... is it unethical for a broker to send whichever opinion they feel is of greater value?...yes, we're led by need to pay bills to consider higher opinion= greater value
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AlbertSmythe48
466 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 3:52:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lemeuss
quote:
Originally posted by Hopland
d'oh!
Why didn't we think of that?! It's so simple and so logical.
Why don't we just ask that anyone invovled in originating a loan swear that they won't try to have any sort of influence on the appraiser, will never ask for values in advance, will promise that the appraiser gets paid even when there is bad news, will send more orders even when there was bad news on the last few orders and promise if they don't like the value they won't try to get another appraisal.
That would make even better sense because appraisers already made the promise my new and ameussing friend proposed above when they signed for their license from the state.
I'll agree with the above. If a borrower wants to pay for another appraisal, that's their call....as an appraisal is an opinion of value, if someone else that's licensed has an opinion (mind you, with no outside influence) that the value is higher and makes a deal fit within guidelines, I'm OK with that.
Think about this, in todays market, assuming no outside influence from the broker, you order the second appraisal two weeks later and the new appraiser finds better comps, most likely your value will be lower, not higher... |
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AlbertSmythe48
466 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 3:55:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by lemeuss
Here it is, the be all, end all solution to HVCC..
In 2 steps
1) HVCC is abolished
2) Every appraiser is to be informed of the following logic and made aware of it...
If each and every appraiser realized that if NONE of them give into brokers, then brokers will have no threat or power, nor will lenders. Problem solved! If brokers CANT take an appraisal order to another appraiser who will appease their sad request for a certain value, problem will be solved, no more cost to borrower, no more extended turn time.
TA DA
Why must the appraiser be the one to change their ways? Why not put the effort on the broker not to threaten the appraiser to hit their value? Maybe #2 should read.
2) ALL BROKERS SHALL NOT THREATEN OR COERCE APPRAISERS TO HIT ANY VALUE.
That sounds pretty simple to me. |
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jstar
1230 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 4:07:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hopland
The ethical quandry is that the broker knows there are two opinions of value from an appraiser. One value will not allow the loan on the desired terms and the other value will allow the loan. Since the broker is not lending their own money it would not be ethical to not inform the one who is lending the money that there are two opinions.
Why are there two opinions of value on the same property? Because appraiser's don't have a big book to look up the value. It's an opinion. Neither opinion is wrong and neither opinion is right. Opinions are not right or wrong. They're just opinions which can be supported or not supported, reasonable or not reasonable, credible or not credible.
An opinion of market value is just an answer to this question: What is the most probable price the property would have sold for on the date of value, assuming both buyer and seller are well informed and acting in their own interest and assuming the property was adequately exposed to the open market and that the sale terms are in cash or cash equivalency.
We're "guessing" about a hypothetcal sales price. A sale that will never happen, a sale that cannot happen. No one is telling us what that sale price is. We have to analyze data that infers what a sales price of the subject would have been. Not all differences in what causes a property to sell for the price it sold for can be adjusted. Markets are not perfect because people are not perfect.
**Edit: Notice in the definition of market value, "Most probable price..." How can an opinion of market value be characterised as "accurate" when by definition it is merely most "probable?"
I understand your thought on “ethical quandary” .
However… I have reviewed guidelines and found no language or specific instructions regarding supplying ANY and ALL appraisals performed on a property. So if there are no rules, specific requirements, or even vague wording to be found I find it hard to label only supplying the appraisal supporting the needed value as an “ethical quandary”. If this was a rule and you were to violate it then there would be a case for this.
Of course, just like an “appraised value”….. this is MY opinion. Yours could be different.
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ritabradley01
4945 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 7:16:16 PM
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That's why stricter rules have come into play. Some of us have ethics and some of us need ethics shoved down their throats.
If you have been given two opinions of value (appraisals) and you try to hide the lower one for no other reason than that it was lower, there's a problem. You may be allowing the bank (who you depend on to fund loans for you) to "pay" too much for the property. To me, it's no different than robbing the bank. If you can't see that, there's no amount of explaining I could do to make you see it.
Again, that's why we need so many rules, because it's every man for himself in the real estate world and ethics be damned! |
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Hopland
4126 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 8:04:34 PM
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While I wouldn't put it exactly like Ms. Bradley did, she's kind of right (IMO).
quote:
However… I have reviewed guidelines and found no language or specific instructions regarding supplying ANY and ALL appraisals performed on a property. So if there are no rules, specific requirements, or even vague wording to be found I find it hard to label only supplying the appraisal supporting the needed value as an “ethical quandary”. If this was a rule and you were to violate it then there would be a case for this.
Ethics isn't just about following rules. It's not just about what feels right. It's not exactly religion and it's not doing what society expects. Ethics refers to well based standards of right and wrong about what humans ought to do in terms of rights, obligations, benefits to society, fairness, or specific virtues. For example, it refers to those standards that impose the reasonable obligations to refrain from rape, stealing, murder, assault, slander, and fraud. Ethical standards also include the virtues of honesty, compassion, and loyalty. And, ethical standards include standards relating to rights, such as the right to life, the right to freedom from injury, and the right to privacy. Such standards are adequate standards of ethics because they are supported by consistent and well founded reasons.
The ethics quandry in our expample is that of being loyal or disloyal or allowing or not allowing injury to the lender you are doing business with.
An ethical person would not need a set of rules to tell them what is right and what is not right.
So, in one sense your right (it's not illegal) but in another sense you are not right because laws don't define what is and what is not ethical.
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Adept Appraisal
1623 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 8:07:52 PM
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Of course they would, Greg.
In some parts of the world it's acceptable to love your neighbor, in other parts it's eat them, all on the basis of preference. Ethics can never be shoved down anyone's throats, but they can be taught.
Dave... |
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Hopland
4126 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 8:19:55 PM
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If Iowa made it state law that neighbors could trap and eat each other it would be legal. Would that be ethical?
Until last year it was legal to grow as many pot plants as you had permits for (25 plants per permit for growing medical marijuana). Some people would buy a mobile home on 160 acres out in the redwood boonies on SISA loan, with pay option ARM's. They would get a few dozen people to apply for a "pot card" and grow thousands of plants (in addition to 25 mature plants you could have 25 immature plants). That's over two million dollars of pot two or three times a year. They'd grow for a year, maybe two then walk away from the property and the loan. Perhaps having made less than $20,000 in payments.
It was legal. Was it ethical? |
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Annemieke Roell
1097 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 8:35:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hopland
While I wouldn't put it exactly like Ms. Bradley did, she's kind of right (IMO).
quote:
However… I have reviewed guidelines and found no language or specific instructions regarding supplying ANY and ALL appraisals performed on a property. So if there are no rules, specific requirements, or even vague wording to be found I find it hard to label only supplying the appraisal supporting the needed value as an “ethical quandary”. If this was a rule and you were to violate it then there would be a case for this.
Ethics isn't just about following rules. It's not just about what feels right. It's not exactly religion and it's not doing what society expects. Ethics refers to well based standards of right and wrong about what humans ought to do in terms of rights, obligations, benefits to society, fairness, or specific virtues. For example, it refers to those standards that impose the reasonable obligations to refrain from rape, stealing, murder, assault, slander, and fraud. Ethical standards also include the virtues of honesty, compassion, and loyalty. And, ethical standards include standards relating to rights, such as the right to life, the right to freedom from injury, and the right to privacy. Such standards are adequate standards of ethics because they are supported by consistent and well founded reasons.
The ethics quandry in our expample is that of being loyal or disloyal or allowing or not allowing injury to the lender you are doing business with.
An ethical person would not need a set of rules to tell them what is right and what is not right.
So, in one sense your right (it's not illegal) but in another sense you are not right because laws don't define what is and what is not ethical.
Ethics .... either you got them or you don't. Paganism is the closest to that: "do no harm".
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AlbertSmythe48
466 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 9:01:43 PM
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| It's not a matter of needing more rules, we have plenty already. What we need is someone to enforce the rules we have. If that were to happen, then HVCC would not be needed. Plain and simple... |
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Adept Appraisal
1623 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 10:50:15 PM
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| Which is, after all, all I've been saying, Albert... |
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aprilwms
29 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 12:25:52 AM
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It's quite simple.
#1- We don’t need the entire HVCC, just the part about making it illegal to provide an appraiser with an estimated value. If there were repercussions to the person ordering the appraisal for providing a value, it would stop.
#2- Nobody should expect a person to pay for an interior inspection just to determine if they have a loan or not. Solution, pay for comp checks/desk appraisals. I was charging anywhere from $25 -$100. If appraisers want to do comp checks for free, they're probably not USPAP compliant.
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Annemieke Roell
1097 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 06:25:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by aprilwms
#2- Nobody should expect a person to pay for an interior inspection just to determine if they have a loan or not.
How do you figure that? How are you going to determine the condition and/or any upgrades if you don't do an interior inspection? |
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steela
201 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 06:40:04 AM
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| Quite frankly issue with brokers pushing values on appraisers was cured in late 2006 on when lenders started pulling BPO's. Those AVM's and BPO's although not 100% a cure all were in fact a checks and balances. HVCC is simply not necessary. Further, lenders seemed to end the practice of having an in house reviewer and placed this in the hands of underwriters with 200 loans in a pipeline, getting screamed at daily by LO's to get loans closed. HVCC was a greed based legislative act and it's obvious it does not work. Maybe what the feds should have done was mandate that any lender securitizing loans fnma, frmc va, fha et al must have an in house review appraiser or appraisers proportionate to the number of files reviewed so as not hold up a pipeline. That's the way it was down back in the good old days... |
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steela
201 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 06:44:26 AM
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| And for you appraisers out there. How's that Market Conditions Addendum working out for you? |
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Hopland
4126 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 07:07:03 AM
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quote:
Maybe what the feds should have done
The "feds" were not involved in HVCC.
quote:
And for you appraisers out there. How's that Market Conditions Addendum working out for you?
A ridiculous and misleading piece of garbage. It's why your appraisals are taking so long. |
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Hopland
4126 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 07:15:37 AM
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Appraisers like to argue. It's how we solve problems and appraisal is all about solving problems.
Over on the appraisers forum there is an argument about whether or not a Christmas tree farm on 20 acres makes the property commercial/agricultural rather than residential. |
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Adept Appraisal
1623 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 07:40:50 AM
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Commercial/Ag - dammit!!
;^)
Dave... |
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steela
201 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 08:05:29 AM
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| That's right Hopland... It is garbage in fact as an underwriter I find it incredible how these things are completed so differently from appraisal to appraisal. I am looking at an appraisal right now. 9 comp sales settles Current-3 mos. All comp sales utilized in grid over 6 months. Fact of the matter is that pushed values are simply easy to find. |
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Hopland
4126 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 08:19:48 AM
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That's not necessarily true steela. The problem with the 1004MC is that is requires a complete and total disaggregation of the sales in order for the statistics to be meaningful. In slow markets, or rural/semi-rural markets or for unique properties by the time the appraiser has reduced the sales to only those that are "comparable" there are not enough left to properly analyze from a statistical viewpoint. And in large metro areas there are so many that it might take half a day or more just to pick out the comparable from the non-comparable. And then sort and re-sort depending on whether or not Reo's should be in the sampling, differences in condition, differnces in sale conditions, etc, etc. Statistics are meaningless unless there is a sufficient sampling.
There is no way that anyone but the original appraiser can figure out what the data in the 1004MC means because the appraiser is the one that custom entered the data. Even the appraiser might not be able to duplicate a few days later.
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steela
201 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 08:50:10 AM
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| Oh no I agree with you 100%. I wasn't inferring that the 1004MC was a means to manipulate value, I was inferring that it is, from an underwriting perspective, nonsense. Your diseggregation comment is completely true. |
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Hopland
4126 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 09:07:42 AM
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quote:
diseggregation
Is that where you separate the brown eggs from the white eggs? |
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broker3271
418 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 09:25:48 AM
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| It's not going away, get over it, or do FHA |
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steela
201 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 11:16:13 AM
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"Is that where you separate the brown eggs from the white eggs?"
I thought they mixed them in together now? |
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lemeuss
1862 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 1:41:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by broker3271
It's not going away, get over it, or do FHA
Head in the sand lately? Looks like it may be going
away thankfully, hopefully people will continue
fighting the good fight! |
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aprilwms
29 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 1:47:44 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Annemieke Roell
quote:
Originally posted by aprilwms
#2- Nobody should expect a person to pay for an interior inspection just to determine if they have a loan or not.
How do you figure that? How are you going to determine the condition and/or any upgrades if you don't do an interior inspection?
From the desk, there is always a range. If the range is $375K-$450K max depending on condition, location, amenities, etc., then that range can be given to the client in desk appraisal format with EA etc. Only the client should know what value is needed to "make the loan work", and based on the desk appraisal, the client can decide how to move forward. Haven't you ever done a desk appraisal before? Maybe your in the group of appraisers afraid of drive-by appraisals too, to each their own. |
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Adept Appraisal
1623 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 1:55:16 PM
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You are entering into uber-appraiser territory. These are tough breeds, immovable objects, you cannot reason with them, they feel no pity, they don't give in, ever, so either steel yourself, or have a great weekend doing something more productive than trying to convince invincibly resistant individuals.
Best,
Dave... |
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aprilwms
29 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 2:18:32 PM
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What was I thinking, I know better. Were looking forward to watching the locals blow stuff up at Oxnard Shores, it's always a good show.
Happy 4th!
~April |
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Annemieke Roell
1097 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 3:54:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by steela
And for you appraisers out there. How's that Market Conditions Addendum working out for you?
Many of us were doing that type of analysis all along before the form came out. |
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Annemieke Roell
1097 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 3:58:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by aprilwms
quote:
Originally posted by Annemieke Roell
quote:
Originally posted by aprilwms
#2- Nobody should expect a person to pay for an interior inspection just to determine if they have a loan or not.
How do you figure that? How are you going to determine the condition and/or any upgrades if you don't do an interior inspection?
From the desk, there is always a range. If the range is $375K-$450K max depending on condition, location, amenities, etc., then that range can be given to the client in desk appraisal format with EA etc. Only the client should know what value is needed to "make the loan work", and based on the desk appraisal, the client can decide how to move forward. Haven't you ever done a desk appraisal before? Maybe your in the group of appraisers afraid of drive-by appraisals too, to each their own.
Oh, a staged assignment. Yes, I have done those .... I mis-understood your post, I suppose.
I am not afraid of the 2055, I just figure that a 1004 is more logical. Which is why we charge the same for a 2055 as we do for a 1004. |
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Hopland
4126 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 6:54:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by aprilwms
What was I thinking, I know better. Were looking forward to watching the locals blow stuff up at Oxnard Shores, it's always a good show.
Happy 4th!
~April
I used to live on the beach (ocean drive) between the seabee base and the harbor (remember Captain Jack's?)
Having said that it's my opinion that your training is abysmally poor.
quote:
From the desk, there is always a range. If the range is $375K-$450K max depending on condition, location, amenities, etc., then that range can be given to the client in desk appraisal format with EA etc.
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Adept Appraisal
1623 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 7:26:51 PM
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| Lord, you guys must need ego boosts so terribly bad. |
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aprilwms
29 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 7:45:41 PM
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| Awww Greg, so negative. I dont know why you hurt me so. It's okay, I'll shoot one off for ya. Captain Jacks is gone, you wouldn’t recognize the place. |
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Hopland
4126 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 8:12:50 PM
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Sorry April. I was having a go around with an idiot amc monkey who sent me a laundry list of stupid stips (the subject was 300 feet from the rental property I owned and just sold with the closing date the same as the effective date of the appraisal I did for them... how less credible could a report be?). They demanded immediate attention. After I fired off a few choice comments and sent the email it was auto-returned that she would be out of the office until July 7th.
I should have been less hostile. It wasn't your suggested methodology that got my goat (you are correct that the use of extraordinary assumptions would be appropriate in this type of assignment) it was the implication that a certain value involved in how the assignment's scope of work should be developed.
"If the range is $375K-$450K max depending on condition, location, amenities, etc., then that range can be given to the client in desk appraisal format with EA etc."
But I did not consider that it's sometimes difficult to express exact thoughts in an internet chat room.
Captain Jack's is gone. We had many breakfasts there and an ocassionaly dinner. It was neat looking at the giant bass displays on the walls. Our house got destroyed in a storm in the 1970's. |
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Adept Appraisal
1623 Posts |
Posted - 07/03/2009 : 8:36:31 PM
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| Don't get too excited about the apology, it won't be long before he drops his watermelon again and goes the other way. He's a good guy, but he gets a little too excited at times... |
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AlbertSmythe48
466 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2009 : 3:08:49 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Adept Appraisal
Which is, after all, all I've been saying, Albert...
Sometimes we do agree Dave... |
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ritabradley01
4945 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2009 : 8:42:30 PM
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I'm shaking in my shoes.
quote:
Originally posted by ZF
End the day of the appraiser. Let the so called expert go and peak at the property, and inspect it. Let the value be determined by the lender. Simple, real simple. The appraiser is nothing more than a realtor, with a little more education. But we must have the very best on BO, because we the loan officers are always wrong, right Rita & Ann? I mean imagine a loan officer ordering an appraiser? I do, but I will tell you this, there will come a day where HVCC is long gone,and maybe soom, I will remember all the wonderful appraisers who felt empowered and made a deal with the lenders and got screwed. HVCC, yes it did work, it showed us just how lazy an appraiser really is, and just how greedy they really are. Never forget! I won't.
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AlbertSmythe48
466 Posts |
Posted - 07/04/2009 : 9:17:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ZF
End the day of the appraiser. Let the so called expert go and peak at the property, and inspect it. Let the value be determined by the lender. Simple, real simple. The appraiser is nothing more than a realtor, with a little more education. But we must have the very best on BO, because we the loan officers are always wrong, right Rita & Ann? I mean imagine a loan officer ordering an appraiser? I do, but I will tell you this, there will come a day where HVCC is long gone,and maybe soom, I will remember all the wonderful appraisers who felt empowered and made a deal with the lenders and got screwed. HVCC, yes it did work, it showed us just how lazy an appraiser really is, and just how greedy they really are. Never forget! I won't.
Why would a loan officer order an appraiser?
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ritabradley01
4945 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2009 : 11:56:03 AM
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And I must have posted about 500 times now that HVCC hasn't affected me professionally. I haven't made deals with any lenders.
Our company works with an AMC that doesn't do any mortgage origination related appraisals. And we started working with them long before HVCC went into effect. Let me spell it out for you again since you just don't get it. HVCC has nothing to do with me. I just have opinions about it that you don't like. |
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Adept Appraisal
1623 Posts |
Posted - 07/05/2009 : 10:58:59 PM
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I find it strange that I am called a "whore" when all I do is render honest reports as a professional and post simple articles and ideas as a concerned American citizen. And for the record, I have never yet received even one appraisal request from a single person on this forum as a result of my postings, despite having been accused of "pandering."
I pander to no one. I submit only honest reports. I am licensed, as are ALL my people. We are in good standing, every one of us, with every state board. I only post important, relevant, articles and concepts here. Rita and Hopland are disgruntled & confused people, as they cannot account for something quite elementary, and that is...
...I despise HVCC, and that, and that alone, is the only reason I am here. Once it is repealed I will disappear into the night, unless, for some odd reason, I am requested to stay.
I am here on principle, and regret that Rita feels the need to make up lies about me, and that Hopland reduces me to "whore" status while unable to understand simple political truths. As for the ubers? Let them rage on, as they apparently need to rage about someone, something, there is some vacuum needing to be filled that only pointed angers sedates.
Honestly, it's not rocket science. There are hard working people who understand the politics in play, and there are others who don't. Many simply don't care, and that's where I was trying to make a difference here. I was hoping to influence the latter two. I am sorry it turned into something so much more complex than it really is.
Hope you all had a happy 4th, I did.
Best,
Dave... |
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Hopland
4126 Posts |
Posted - 07/06/2009 : 08:27:12 AM
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quote:
I had wonderful relationships prior to the HVCC introduction and really never had a problem.
It's a conflict of interest, plain and simple, and should never have been allowed. Things will not change (stabilization of real estate pricing trends and the national economy) until confidence in the soundness of the system has been restored. Returning to a situation which allows a conflict of interest in one of the cornerstones of sound mortgage lending (valuation of the collateral) will not help to restore confidence. |
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