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homer5
2209 Posts |
 Posted - 07/02/2009 : 08:12:50 AM
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A picture says a thousand words. Here are some pictures that define Obama's massive and continuing economic failure. The pain you feel is real...
First up unemployment. The worst going back to the 60's.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_pMscxxELHEg/SkyqrHQO5MI/AAAAAAAAFt8/q1fDP6sqsrk/s1600-h/EmploymentJune09.jpg
Second worse job loss percentage since World War 2 and nowhere near a bottom.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pMscxxELHEg/Skyq54TUtPI/AAAAAAAAFuE/JywLBQ0kG_o/s1600-h/JoblossPercentJune2009.jpg
The worst initial and continued claims since 1971.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pMscxxELHEg/SkyzHp0RoQI/AAAAAAAAFuU/cSb4U81qKLY/s1600-h/WeeklyClaimsJuly2.jpg
Construction jobs. Remember all the construction jobs Obama was going to create? He's failed miserably here too.
From the bls site..
In June, employment in construction fell by 79,000, with losses
spread throughout the industry. Since the start of the recession,
construction employment has fallen by 1.3 million. Mining employ-
ment fell by 8,000 in June, about in line with the average monthly
decline since its recent peak in October 2008.
Of course look at construction spending...
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pMscxxELHEg/SktvvlibNjI/AAAAAAAAFtc/McCFB95S8hw/s1600-h/ConstructionSpendingMay09.jpg
How are new home sales doing?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pMscxxELHEg/SkIzHALpY3I/AAAAAAAAFo0/5w6_U_yPflk/s1600-h/NHSMay2009.jpg
How about retail sales? As you know, consumer spending is 70% of GDP.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_pMscxxELHEg/SjE1oquZ5FI/AAAAAAAAFgA/xQvvYVHJK60/s1600-h/RetailMayYoY09.jpg
How's manufacturing doing? Let's look at capacity utilization.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_pMscxxELHEg/SjecTyZcv0I/AAAAAAAAFiI/vGkcdW25U2k/s1600-h/CapacityMay2009.jpg
The economic contraction is widespread, in 49 of 50 states according the Philly Fed survey.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pMscxxELHEg/SkD55j9xsVI/AAAAAAAAFoM/wWlyO6CvZKM/s1600-h/PhillyFedMayMap.jpg
But the stock market is doing fine. Well it should NOT be based on cliff diving S&P earnings.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/127203-s-p-500-earnings-biggest-decline-on-record
So what does that mean for the stock value measurement of price to earnings ratio? A historic high of 120!
http://www.chartoftheday.com/20090522.htm
When will it sell off? Perhaps very soon based on consumer confidence and market divergence. Last time these two diverged to this extent the market had a huge sell off last fall. Note the red shaded areas and the subsequent price plunge...
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/CONCPSIT%206.30.jpg
Well I think you get the picture. Obama has and is continuing to fail with no change of strategy on the horizon. A continuation of these trends is to be expected and will be the death knell of the dem congress and O's failed presidency.
Note: If these graphs have you depressed, I prescribe a couple of hours watching CNBC. |
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hertz
1545 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 08:21:46 AM
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craigppls
2039 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 09:07:30 AM
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Dude you act like the economy was steaming along under Bush and somehow Obama in 5 months made the world end. Just how bad would things be if the nation continued the do nothing the economy is fine Bush model.
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mykal5
6130 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 09:20:14 AM
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What pain? Life is good here and for everyone I know.
In a deep systemic recession things go down. The numbers you posted are of no surprise.
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homer5
2209 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 09:22:16 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by craigppls
Dude you act like the economy was steaming along under Bush and somehow Obama in 5 months made the world end. Just how bad would things be if the nation continued the do nothing the economy is fine Bush model.
You don't get it. Banks should have been allowed to fail along with auto companies and AIG. Further a couple of trillion in Obama's deficit spending is nothing more than gasoline being poured on a raging fire. And in addition to that, socialized medicine and the largest tax increase in American history, known as cap n trade are weighing on the economy as well.
This is Obama's economy now. I know it so bad that you have nothing to say but "look at bush". But it is what it is and it ain't good. |
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homer5
2209 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 09:27:37 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
What pain? Life is good here and for everyone I know.
In a deep systemic recession things go down. The numbers you posted are of no surprise.
lol you've got to be kidding on both statements. What pain? Apparently you don't know any of the 14.3 million people who are unemployed. Or the 9 million you can add to that who are reflected in U6, for a total of 23 million people un or under employed.
The messiah's a failure, I know it's a tough pill for you to swallow. |
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mykal5
6130 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 09:39:11 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by homer5
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
What pain? Life is good here and for everyone I know.
In a deep systemic recession things go down. The numbers you posted are of no surprise.
lol you've got to be kidding on both statements. What pain? Apparently you don't know any of the 14.3 million people who are unemployed. Or the 9 million you can add to that who are reflected in U6, for a total of 23 million people un or under employed.
The messiah's a failure, I know it's a tough pill for you to swallow.
I know a few, and all of them have or are soldiering on knowing full well it is not Obama's job to fix their situation rather it is their sole responsibility, as a result complaining about Washington is of no use to them.
Self-reliance is what we Democrats call it. |
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homer5
2209 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 09:46:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
quote:
Originally posted by homer5
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
What pain? Life is good here and for everyone I know.
In a deep systemic recession things go down. The numbers you posted are of no surprise.
lol you've got to be kidding on both statements. What pain? Apparently you don't know any of the 14.3 million people who are unemployed. Or the 9 million you can add to that who are reflected in U6, for a total of 23 million people un or under employed.
The messiah's a failure, I know it's a tough pill for you to swallow.
I know a few, and all of them have or are soldiering on knowing full well it is not Obama's job to fix their situation rather it is their sole responsibility, as a result complaining about Washington is of no use to them.
Self-reliance is what we Democrats call it.
Yeah right Michael it's up to the ranks of the unemployed to turn the economy around by creating jobs, repairing the banking system, fixing the housing crisis and all what ails us while the failure takes his wife out on dates to NYC.
Democrats and self reliance, are you on meds today or did you get a job at CNBC?
By the way, Gibbs says it's Obama's economy too.
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/06/30/video-gibbs-tells-ms-nbc-that-obamas-ready-to-take-responsibility-for-economy/ |
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mykal5
6130 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 10:39:59 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by homer5
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
quote:
Originally posted by homer5
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
What pain? Life is good here and for everyone I know.
In a deep systemic recession things go down. The numbers you posted are of no surprise.
lol you've got to be kidding on both statements. What pain? Apparently you don't know any of the 14.3 million people who are unemployed. Or the 9 million you can add to that who are reflected in U6, for a total of 23 million people un or under employed.
The messiah's a failure, I know it's a tough pill for you to swallow.
I know a few, and all of them have or are soldiering on knowing full well it is not Obama's job to fix their situation rather it is their sole responsibility, as a result complaining about Washington is of no use to them.
Self-reliance is what we Democrats call it.
Yeah right Michael it's up to the ranks of the unemployed to turn the economy around by creating jobs, repairing the banking system, fixing the housing crisis and all what ails us while the failure takes his wife out on dates to NYC.
Democrats and self reliance, are you on meds today or did you get a job at CNBC?
By the way, Gibbs says it's Obama's economy too.
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/06/30/video-gibbs-tells-ms-nbc-that-obamas-ready-to-take-responsibility-for-economy/
Of course it is his economy now. His job isn't to fix it, rather it is to help fix it, and entertain whomever he sees fit.
Believe it or not there are jobs out there, obviously not enough, but I don't know anyone who can afford to live with the "our POTUS is a failure" attitude. That isn't going to put food on the table.
Don't let that ODS get to you.
Oh, yeah Democrats, Republicans and Libertarians and those in between believe in self reliance, those who don't really are a minority group despite what you believe. |
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homer5
2209 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 10:48:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
quote:
Originally posted by homer5
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
quote:
Originally posted by homer5
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
What pain? Life is good here and for everyone I know.
In a deep systemic recession things go down. The numbers you posted are of no surprise.
lol you've got to be kidding on both statements. What pain? Apparently you don't know any of the 14.3 million people who are unemployed. Or the 9 million you can add to that who are reflected in U6, for a total of 23 million people un or under employed.
The messiah's a failure, I know it's a tough pill for you to swallow.
I know a few, and all of them have or are soldiering on knowing full well it is not Obama's job to fix their situation rather it is their sole responsibility, as a result complaining about Washington is of no use to them.
Self-reliance is what we Democrats call it.
Yeah right Michael it's up to the ranks of the unemployed to turn the economy around by creating jobs, repairing the banking system, fixing the housing crisis and all what ails us while the failure takes his wife out on dates to NYC.
Democrats and self reliance, are you on meds today or did you get a job at CNBC?
By the way, Gibbs says it's Obama's economy too.
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/06/30/video-gibbs-tells-ms-nbc-that-obamas-ready-to-take-responsibility-for-economy/
Of course it is his economy now. His job isn't to fix it, rather it is to help fix it, and entertain whomever he sees fit.
Believe it or not there are jobs out there, obviously not enough, but I don't know anyone who can afford to live with the "our POTUS is a failure" attitude. That isn't going to put food on the table.
Don't let that ODS get to you.
Oh, yeah Democrats, Republicans and Libertarians and those in between believe in self reliance, those who don't really are a minority group despite what you believe.
The only Derangement Syndrome I suffer from is Reality Derangement Syndrome. Something that a lot of people could use a dose of. |
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mykal5
6130 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 11:23:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by homer5
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
quote:
Originally posted by homer5
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
quote:
Originally posted by homer5
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
What pain? Life is good here and for everyone I know.
In a deep systemic recession things go down. The numbers you posted are of no surprise.
lol you've got to be kidding on both statements. What pain? Apparently you don't know any of the 14.3 million people who are unemployed. Or the 9 million you can add to that who are reflected in U6, for a total of 23 million people un or under employed.
The messiah's a failure, I know it's a tough pill for you to swallow.
I know a few, and all of them have or are soldiering on knowing full well it is not Obama's job to fix their situation rather it is their sole responsibility, as a result complaining about Washington is of no use to them.
Self-reliance is what we Democrats call it.
Yeah right Michael it's up to the ranks of the unemployed to turn the economy around by creating jobs, repairing the banking system, fixing the housing crisis and all what ails us while the failure takes his wife out on dates to NYC.
Democrats and self reliance, are you on meds today or did you get a job at CNBC?
By the way, Gibbs says it's Obama's economy too.
http://hotair.com/archives/2009/06/30/video-gibbs-tells-ms-nbc-that-obamas-ready-to-take-responsibility-for-economy/
Of course it is his economy now. His job isn't to fix it, rather it is to help fix it, and entertain whomever he sees fit.
Believe it or not there are jobs out there, obviously not enough, but I don't know anyone who can afford to live with the "our POTUS is a failure" attitude. That isn't going to put food on the table.
Don't let that ODS get to you.
Oh, yeah Democrats, Republicans and Libertarians and those in between believe in self reliance, those who don't really are a minority group despite what you believe.
The only Derangement Syndrome I suffer from is Reality Derangement Syndrome. Something that a lot of people could use a dose of.
I hear you. Have a good weekend. |
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homer5
2209 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 11:42:11 AM
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| Thanks Mykal, you do the same. |
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assassin17
7702 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 11:53:49 AM
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"Self-reliance" is completely opposite of the Democratic belief in government being responsible for the citizens. Now I've heard it all. "Everyone here is fine" is a very myopic statement.
Mykal, you REALLY will not admit that Obama has made it WORSE and its just beginning. Nobody expected him to have it fixed by now; he has provided no signs of positive movement, rather... nothing has changed. If anything, he's simply added grease onto the slide.
That isn't what Obama promised. He said he had the answers. He said he was a change from "failed policies". He offered "hope" for the future, not dread.
Well, where is it? "Change for the Worse" is not what Obama said he could or would do. You've been had, my man. All of you Obama voters... You've been had. By desiring a "win" at all costs, you lost big-time.
Obama is an incompetent dreamer. Even I would have done a better job by now. |
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cspatmon
5276 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 12:06:36 PM
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| Mykel, self-reliance is a silent creed for Dems. That's why we can be as charitable, liberal and sympathetic to the less fortunate. |
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homer5
2209 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 12:15:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cspatmon
Mykel, self-reliance is a silent creed for Dems. That's why we can be as charitable, liberal and sympathetic to the less fortunate.
Silent as in nonexistent. The dem/socialist party doesn't know the meaning of self reliance.
The only way dems are charitable is through socialistic legislation forcing them to be charitable. On the other hand, conservatives are charitable on their own accord without the strong arming of the government. They prefer to choose who they are charitable towards instead having the government do it for them. |
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hertz
1545 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 12:19:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
quote:
Originally posted by homer5
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
What pain? Life is good here and for everyone I know.
In a deep systemic recession things go down. The numbers you posted are of no surprise.
lol you've got to be kidding on both statements. What pain? Apparently you don't know any of the 14.3 million people who are unemployed. Or the 9 million you can add to that who are reflected in U6, for a total of 23 million people un or under employed.
The messiah's a failure, I know it's a tough pill for you to swallow.
I know a few, and all of them have or are soldiering on knowing full well it is not Obama's job to fix their situation rather it is their sole responsibility, as a result complaining about Washington is of no use to them.
Self-reliance is what we Democrats call it.
Wish Obama felt like the rest of these "self relian" dems. |
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rbell
343 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 2:26:58 PM
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That is the funniest thing I have ever read on this board!
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
quote:
Originally posted by homer5
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
What pain? Life is good here and for everyone I know.
In a deep systemic recession things go down. The numbers you posted are of no surprise.
lol you've got to be kidding on both statements. What pain? Apparently you don't know any of the 14.3 million people who are unemployed. Or the 9 million you can add to that who are reflected in U6, for a total of 23 million people un or under employed.
The messiah's a failure, I know it's a tough pill for you to swallow.
I know a few, and all of them have or are soldiering on knowing full well it is not Obama's job to fix their situation rather it is their sole responsibility, as a result complaining about Washington is of no use to them.
Self-reliance is what we Democrats call it.
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rbell
343 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 2:27:56 PM
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Short lived because, that is the funniest thing I have ever read on this board!
quote:
Originally posted by cspatmon
Mykel, self-reliance is a silent creed for Dems. That's why we can be as charitable, liberal and sympathetic to the less fortunate.
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lemeuss
1842 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 2:36:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cspatmon
Mykel, self-reliance is a silent creed for Dems. That's why we can be as charitable, liberal and sympathetic to the less fortunate.
I believe you view Charity in a Robin Hood sort of fashion, only distorted......
"I steal from the hard working and managing to survive and feed my family, and give to the poor."
So I guess on the other side, you would consider Reps to be forced to be charitable rather than wanting to be, and whether or not they care for the less fortunate, they're gonna pay them anyway?
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Agent_Mike
987 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 3:23:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by homer5
quote:
Originally posted by craigppls
Dude you act like the economy was steaming along under Bush and somehow Obama in 5 months made the world end. Just how bad would things be if the nation continued the do nothing the economy is fine Bush model.
You don't get it. Banks should have been allowed to fail along with auto companies and AIG. Further a couple of trillion in Obama's deficit spending is nothing more than gasoline being poured on a raging fire. And in addition to that, socialized medicine and the largest tax increase in American history, known as cap n trade are weighing on the economy as well.
This is Obama's economy now. I know it so bad that you have nothing to say but "look at bush". But it is what it is and it ain't good.
This is honestly retarded. Obama has been president for how long and the entire recession is his fault because he didn't let the banks fail? Whose policies was it to have every freaking American be home owners? Whose policy was it to not strictly enforce the banking institutions that were supposed to have been regulated? You must be pretty shortsighted and vindictive that republicans didn't win if you seriously call this the Obama economics less than half a year into his Presidency.
The fact is no one could predict what would really happen if banks were let failed. Your assumption is that we would not be in a recession if banks failed. Many economists disagree with you, and evidently, so did the entire administration and the treasury. Credit is unfortunately the American lifeblood and letting that go under could've seriously jeopardized our business sector flowing from wallstreet into mainstreet, and affecting our sovereignty. When the previous administrations rode on two big bubbles - stocks and housing - and the people spent trillions in inflated paper values, it's hard to fight the recession just letting everything go the way of the dinosaurs.
Don't you remember anything form your economics and civics classes? What is the role of the government in a recession? In a period of slowed or stagnant economy, government has to be the one to restart, re-energize, and help the economic cycle gain speed in the form of spending, controlling interest rates, and monetary policies.
You talk of socialized healthcare as if it was already here and is the reason why we're in a recession. A lot of assumptions without much insight. |
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khoiey
2925 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 3:30:47 PM
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At what point of his presidency will you start holding Obama responsible for his policies?
quote:
Originally posted by Agent_Mike
quote:
Originally posted by homer5
quote:
Originally posted by craigppls
Dude you act like the economy was steaming along under Bush and somehow Obama in 5 months made the world end. Just how bad would things be if the nation continued the do nothing the economy is fine Bush model.
You don't get it. Banks should have been allowed to fail along with auto companies and AIG. Further a couple of trillion in Obama's deficit spending is nothing more than gasoline being poured on a raging fire. And in addition to that, socialized medicine and the largest tax increase in American history, known as cap n trade are weighing on the economy as well.
This is Obama's economy now. I know it so bad that you have nothing to say but "look at bush". But it is what it is and it ain't good.
This is honestly retarded. Obama has been president for how long and the entire recession is his fault because he didn't let the banks fail? Whose policies was it to have every freaking American be home owners? Whose policy was it to not strictly enforce the banking institutions that were supposed to have been regulated? You must be pretty shortsighted and vindictive that republicans didn't win if you seriously call this the Obama economics less than half a year into his Presidency.
The fact is no one could predict what would really happen if banks were let failed. Your assumption is that we would not be in a recession if banks failed. Many economists disagree with you, and evidently, so did the entire administration and the treasury. Credit is unfortunately the American lifeblood and letting that go under could've seriously jeopardized our business sector flowing from wallstreet into mainstreet, and affecting our sovereignty. When the previous administrations rode on two big bubbles - stocks and housing - and the people spent trillions in inflated paper values, it's hard to fight the recession just letting everything go the way of the dinosaurs.
Don't you remember anything form your economics and civics classes? What is the role of the government in a recession? In a period of slowed or stagnant economy, government has to be the one to restart, re-energize, and help the economic cycle gain speed in the form of spending, controlling interest rates, and monetary policies.
You talk of socialized healthcare as if it was already here and is the reason why we're in a recession. A lot of assumptions without much insight.
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Agent_Mike
987 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 3:47:19 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by khoiey
At what point of his presidency will you start holding Obama responsible for his policies?
There is no line that can be drawn. We should hold him responsible for things that he creates, starts, and does. Not serious collaborated attempts of fixing his predecessors mistakes. His decision to pull out of Iraq? Right or wrong, it's an attempt to fix Bush's mistake. However, his decision to redeploy troops into Afghanistan, that is something we can judge him by - this is something he is restarting.
The saving of the banks and bail-out for big businesses? There was voices from both side of the aisles saying how it was necessary and again is the fallout from his predecessors. The "OBAMA SPENDING"? These items are in response to the Bush era policies fallout and collaterals.
Judge him on things that are truly his as right or wrong. For example - all the CZARS - that's wrong and unconstitutional in my book. But his attempts to fix the BUSH legacy fallouts deserve more faith and benefit of doubt.
What's happening now is exactly what many political scientists predicted would happen. Many said 6 months to a year into his Presidency, the ambitious efforts required to seriously fix the BUSH ERA policie's fallouts will be a make or break for Obama in 2012, and people will start blending the economic woes as Obama's doing, despite the fact that such a large set of failures in many sectors were the cumulative results of the last 8-12 years. This is probably more so with republicans many of whom despises Obama and like Limbaughs, probably are waiting to see him fail - which by the way is a pathetic notion. |
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craigppls
2039 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 3:55:32 PM
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you have no idea if any of this helped or hurt yet. Did the programs made a difference or would doing nothing been better. I know this the shock of major banks closing, AIG failing and the auto companies all happening at the sametime could not make things any better.
So stop acting like a child "Are we there...Are we there...etc."
This was not ever going to correct easily. Some people still dont get where we were as a nation Sept. 2008. which didnt have one thing to do with Obama.
For me...it will be what it always is...Are we better off now than 4 years ago...
quote:
Originally posted by khoiey
At what point of his presidency will you start holding Obama responsible for his policies?
quote:
Originally posted by Agent_Mike
quote:
Originally posted by homer5
quote:
Originally posted by craigppls
Dude you act like the economy was steaming along under Bush and somehow Obama in 5 months made the world end. Just how bad would things be if the nation continued the do nothing the economy is fine Bush model.
You don't get it. Banks should have been allowed to fail along with auto companies and AIG. Further a couple of trillion in Obama's deficit spending is nothing more than gasoline being poured on a raging fire. And in addition to that, socialized medicine and the largest tax increase in American history, known as cap n trade are weighing on the economy as well.
This is Obama's economy now. I know it so bad that you have nothing to say but "look at bush". But it is what it is and it ain't good.
This is honestly retarded. Obama has been president for how long and the entire recession is his fault because he didn't let the banks fail? Whose policies was it to have every freaking American be home owners? Whose policy was it to not strictly enforce the banking institutions that were supposed to have been regulated? You must be pretty shortsighted and vindictive that republicans didn't win if you seriously call this the Obama economics less than half a year into his Presidency.
The fact is no one could predict what would really happen if banks were let failed. Your assumption is that we would not be in a recession if banks failed. Many economists disagree with you, and evidently, so did the entire administration and the treasury. Credit is unfortunately the American lifeblood and letting that go under could've seriously jeopardized our business sector flowing from wallstreet into mainstreet, and affecting our sovereignty. When the previous administrations rode on two big bubbles - stocks and housing - and the people spent trillions in inflated paper values, it's hard to fight the recession just letting everything go the way of the dinosaurs.
Don't you remember anything form your economics and civics classes? What is the role of the government in a recession? In a period of slowed or stagnant economy, government has to be the one to restart, re-energize, and help the economic cycle gain speed in the form of spending, controlling interest rates, and monetary policies.
You talk of socialized healthcare as if it was already here and is the reason why we're in a recession. A lot of assumptions without much insight.
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Mandyvilla
6303 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 5:12:32 PM
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Well, several news stations are trying to see the effects of the stimulus package, and there are no where near the numbers of jobs saved or created that was touted.
Are the Dems self reliant before or after they stand in line for a handout? |
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Agent_Mike
987 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 5:23:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Mandyvilla
Well, several news stations are trying to see the effects of the stimulus package, and there are no where near the numbers of jobs saved or created that was touted.
Are the Dems self reliant before or after they stand in line for a handout?
The stimulus package's effects were said to be measurable as early as 3 years, as late as 4-5 years by economists. Interestingly enough, if the effects come out in the 3 year early period, it will either make or break Obama's chance at 2012 election. |
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homer5
2209 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 7:56:51 PM
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Agent Mike my response is in red
quote:
Originally posted by Agent_Mike
quote:
Originally posted by homer5
quote:
Originally posted by craigppls
Dude you act like the economy was steaming along under Bush and somehow Obama in 5 months made the world end. Just how bad would things be if the nation continued the do nothing the economy is fine Bush model.
You don't get it. Banks should have been allowed to fail along with auto companies and AIG. Further a couple of trillion in Obama's deficit spending is nothing more than gasoline being poured on a raging fire. And in addition to that, socialized medicine and the largest tax increase in American history, known as cap n trade are weighing on the economy as well.
This is Obama's economy now. I know it so bad that you have nothing to say but "look at bush". But it is what it is and it ain't good.
This is honestly retarded. Obama has been president for how long and the entire recession is his fault because he didn't let the banks fail? Whose policies was it to have every freaking American be home owners? Whose policy was it to not strictly enforce the banking institutions that were supposed to have been regulated? You must be pretty shortsighted and vindictive that republicans didn't win if you seriously call this the Obama economics less than half a year into his Presidency.
No your response is way off the mark and shows a complete lack of understanding of the situation and the laws governing it. First off nowhere did I state the recession was Obama's fault. Yes it is Obama's fault for not letting the banks fail, a mistake carried over from Bush. The policy of "homes for everyone" is only part of the equation. A minor part I might add. That part is due to the dems, CRA and the like. The other part of the equation, the real cause for the meltdown, was a lack of enforcement of current laws and the fraud perpetrated by the ratings agencies. Lack of enforcement started with Bush and carried on by Obama. Your partisan remark is inaccurate as I am anti government.
We have been screwed by both parties and it doesn't feel good regardless of which is doing it. This is Obama's economy, plain and simple and by his and his administration's admission. As far as short sightedness goes, it's your position that reflects it. Breaking laws and not enforcing laws because someone says it maybe catastrophic is short sighted. It completely corrupts the system both long term and short term and depletes trust and integrity. Both of which are necessary for functioning markets.
The fact is no one could predict what would really happen if banks were let failed. Your assumption is that we would not be in a recession if banks failed. Many economists disagree with you, and evidently, so did the entire administration and the treasury. Credit is unfortunately the American lifeblood and letting that go under could've seriously jeopardized our business sector flowing from wallstreet into mainstreet, and affecting our sovereignty. When the previous administrations rode on two big bubbles - stocks and housing - and the people spent trillions in inflated paper values, it's hard to fight the recession just letting everything go the way of the dinosaurs.
Do me a favor. If you don't understand my position, which is clearly the case, ask and I will elaborate. Don't put words in my mouth such as "we wouldn't be in a recession if the banks were allowed to fail". My position is we would have reached a bottom faster and would be on the way to recovery because of reaching a bottom faster. All the initiatives to date have done nothing but to forestall the inevitable and wasted trillions of dollars in doing so.
All economists with the exception of a handful have been dreadfully off the mark. They didn't see this coming and didn't know we were in it when we were and don't know what to do about it now that we are in it. So spare me the many economist routine. You may need to defer to these who have been failures at assessing our situation. I don't have to due my professional background and two years of ongoing, tedious and in depth research into the meltdown.
What you don't see is the out and out self serving cronyism of the Fed and Treasury. They, like your many economist, also failed miserably to predict and react to the meltdown. The biggest beneficiary of the bailout has been Goldman Sachs and the former Secretary of Treasury was a Goldman alumni. Coincidence? I don't think so. These banking oligarchs control both parties as evidence by the uniform and failing handling of the situation that spans two administrations of different political ideology. Everyone that advised the government of catastrophe had an ax to grind. They stood to and have benefited by the actions taken from that advice.
Nowhere in your post have you demonstrated an understanding of what precisely got us to this point. Yet without an understanding of the causes you offer or support flawed solutions. So I have no choice but to take your criticisms with a grain of salt.
You don't repair the damage done by bubbles by inflating yet another bubble. Prices have to come into balance with incomes and demand. Assets which no one is willing to pay anything must be reflected as such on balance sheets. This means a painful deleveraging is called for and to some degree is happening. Not because of flawed initiatives but despite them. Therefore the trillions of dollars thrown at the people and entities that caused the problem have been wasted and exacerbated the problems. While enriching those least deserving of it.
Don't you remember anything form your economics and civics classes? What is the role of the government in a recession? In a period of slowed or stagnant economy, government has to be the one to restart, re-energize, and help the economic cycle gain speed in the form of spending, controlling interest rates, and monetary policies.
As far as economics go, I have forgotten more than you'll ever know. Your post is proof of that. No one is disputing that government has a role in repairing the economy. The dispute lies in the manner in which it is done. Operating outside the law and fostering crony capitalism are clearly not the way the government should be involved in the recovery process. Yet that is exactly what they are doing. Further proof of your lack of understanding of the problem and solutions offered so far is supported by your sentence.
In a period of slowed or stagnant economy, government has to be the one to restart, re-energize, and help the economic cycle gain speed in the form of spending, controlling interest rates, and monetary policies.
Government deficit spending is the last thing this economy needs now. Both the currency and bond markets are suffering because of it. Interest rate policy is already in affect with near zero or negative short term interest rates. Those rates have done nothing in the way of positively affecting our situation. And to remind you of economics, controlling interest rates is a part of monetary policy, not something separate from it as your post would indicate.
You talk of socialized healthcare as if it was already here and is the reason why we're in a recession. A lot of assumptions without much insight.
I refer to socialized medicine because the prospect of it alone has an effect on markets and financial plans. Look at the recent performance of health care stocks which has responded to the developments in the debate. More importantly, look at daily bond performance in light of the health care socialization and it's cost. I stated the prospects of socialized health care and cap n tax are weighing on the economy. The fact is that they are for the reasons stated. Your lack of reading comprehension is the reason for you erroneously stating that I posted socialized health care as a cause of the recession. Go back and read it.
I haven't stated the reasons as I assumed those reading the post would already be aware of the reasons. Apparently I didn't take you into consideration when assuming that. The reasons are not apparent to the novice with an untrained eye who must rely on mainstream media sources for their erroneous opinions. Because you lack the economic intellect to understand my post(s) doesn't mean that I am the one lacking insight. On the contrary, it is you and your post that lacks insight or even a basic understanding of the situation at hand as well as my commentary on it.
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homer5
2209 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 8:09:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by craigppls
you have no idea if any of this helped or hurt yet. Did the programs made a difference or would doing nothing been better. I know this the shock of major banks closing, AIG failing and the auto companies all happening at the sametime could not make things any better.
So stop acting like a child "Are we there...Are we there...etc."
This was not ever going to correct easily. Some people still dont get where we were as a nation Sept. 2008. which didnt have one thing to do with Obama.
For me...it will be what it always is...Are we better off now than 4 years ago...
quote:
Originally posted by khoiey
At what point of his presidency will you start holding Obama responsible for his policies?
quote:
Originally posted by Agent_Mike
quote:
Originally posted by homer5
quote:
Originally posted by craigppls
Dude you act like the economy was steaming along under Bush and somehow Obama in 5 months made the world end. Just how bad would things be if the nation continued the do nothing the economy is fine Bush model.
You don't get it. Banks should have been allowed to fail along with auto companies and AIG. Further a couple of trillion in Obama's deficit spending is nothing more than gasoline being poured on a raging fire. And in addition to that, socialized medicine and the largest tax increase in American history, known as cap n trade are weighing on the economy as well.
This is Obama's economy now. I know it so bad that you have nothing to say but "look at bush". But it is what it is and it ain't good.
This is honestly retarded. Obama has been president for how long and the entire recession is his fault because he didn't let the banks fail? Whose policies was it to have every freaking American be home owners? Whose policy was it to not strictly enforce the banking institutions that were supposed to have been regulated? You must be pretty shortsighted and vindictive that republicans didn't win if you seriously call this the Obama economics less than half a year into his Presidency.
The fact is no one could predict what would really happen if banks were let failed. Your assumption is that we would not be in a recession if banks failed. Many economists disagree with you, and evidently, so did the entire administration and the treasury. Credit is unfortunately the American lifeblood and letting that go under could've seriously jeopardized our business sector flowing from wallstreet into mainstreet, and affecting our sovereignty. When the previous administrations rode on two big bubbles - stocks and housing - and the people spent trillions in inflated paper values, it's hard to fight the recession just letting everything go the way of the dinosaurs.
Don't you remember anything form your economics and civics classes? What is the role of the government in a recession? In a period of slowed or stagnant economy, government has to be the one to restart, re-energize, and help the economic cycle gain speed in the form of spending, controlling interest rates, and monetary policies.
You talk of socialized healthcare as if it was already here and is the reason why we're in a recession. A lot of assumptions without much insight.
Please don't project your ignorance onto me. I certainly have a grasp on the effects and lack thereof of the flawed stimulus policy.
As far as banks and AIG failing, you don't have a clue. How do you know we are better off for not letting them fail. How is enriching Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan via the AIG bailout help anyone but Goldman and JP? We are in a depression that is getting deeper each and every day. We are out of money and we are out of time. We can't wait and see for four years. By then the damage will be deeper, more costly and perhaps irreparable.
Those who said catastrophe would be upon us by allowing AIG and the banks to fail had the most to gain by rescuing them. There was no proof at that time or now that their failures would have worsened our situation. The fact that we are no better off now after throwing billions at them only supports my position.
Furthermore, no one said September 08 had anything to with Obama. My criticism is based on his actions since being in office. Even when running a marathon, you know when you've reached 50 yards, a quarter mile and a mile. You don't have to reach the finish line to measure progress. The fact of the matter is there is no progress. We're still at the starting line. So spare me your childish "are we there yet" analogies. |
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assassin17
7702 Posts |
Posted - 07/02/2009 : 9:48:36 PM
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"You must be pretty shortsighted and vindictive that republicans didn't win if you seriously call this the Obama economics less than half a year into his Presidency."
I judge from day one, but to be fair I'm willing to give him until September 11th of his first term. That is exactly the point where Democrats focus upon everything under Bush's tenure being blamed upon him and him alone, despite Clinton's failure to act upon an earlier WTC terrorist action.
So, he has until September 11th upcoming, for me. At that point, I am going to unleash total hatred and disgust if the country is not in picture-perfect condition, matching the attitude I have dealt with for years from every Bush-hater in this country who could not produce any workable ideas of their own in response.
At that point, I will not let up. I will be the anti-Garafalo, spewing venom at every Obama-lover who dares to open their mouth and utter the name of George Bush in my presence. The Blame Game will end and I will urge every conservative friend that I have to do exactly the same.
There will be Hellzapoppin' on the liberals around me. To them I say; Time's up -- Enough with the excuses. Your boy had better be up to the challenge after 8 months, just as you demanded from the GOP, because I'm bringing the most-vicious muzzle I can bring. I am sick and tired of hearing about this impotent Wondergod. You made your beds, let's hope you brought enough pillows, because you're shutting up around me on September 12th.
I hope everyone else has the guts to do the same. Fair is fair. |
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