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Originally posted by lemeuss

I think this depends on which state youre doing business in, that info will help the legal beagles up in hurr

Sr. Loan Advisor? Not knocking the title, but just curious...years in the biz or were you Sr. when you walked in the door?

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Originally posted by CoralSnake

It seems okay as long as its disclosed.

But if the borrower closes and then rescinds, then you will have to refund your non-refundable fee.

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Originally posted by nrossa

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Originally posted by CoralSnake

It seems okay as long as its disclosed.

But if the borrower closes and then rescinds, then you will have to refund your non-refundable fee.

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that's my point though. They sign a contract basically upfront for the labor and work put in. If it states that on the initial document they sign then shouldn't this be bnding.

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Originally posted by nrossa

I know the Sr. Thing bothers you, its irrelavent, so please let t go. I have done a lot of research on this topic and have found nothng where its not allowed. I deal with about 15 realtors who send me mostly purchase business. They know about the fee, as well as the borrowers upfront. Its impossible for me to work with every client, so.I thought about this fee upfront to weed out the unqualified people or ones who weren't serious borrowers. I don't ever deal with a loan rescinding. Apartment complexes and other people charge upfront before any qualifications are made, I don't see why this would be different. Just a question, not saying I fully implemented it. In a tough market why not charge for your initial labor though?

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Originally posted by nrossa

I charge an upfront, non-refundable application fee to my borrowers prior to putting in all the work on the approval process. They sign the contract acknowledging this fee upfront. Is this illegal or unethical if its fully disclosed? Appreciate the feedback

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Originally posted by frank drigotas jr

nrossa,

I am not trying to pile on, but let me make an observation:

Most of the time, in my experience, when an individual uses the title of Loan Advisor or Loan Consultant, etc, they are not licensed as a LO, broker or originator.

Are you licensed?


dollar

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Originally posted by nrossa

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Originally posted by lemeuss

I think this depends on which state youre doing business in, that info will help the legal beagles up in hurr

Sr. Loan Advisor? Not knocking the title, but just curious...years in the biz or were you Sr. when you walked in the door?

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thanks for the reply. I've been in the business 9 yrs. Have my bach. In finance. I'm in Florida.

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Originally posted by johnnyboy38109

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Originally posted by nrossa

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Originally posted by CoralSnake

It seems okay as long as its disclosed.

But if the borrower closes and then rescinds, then you will have to refund your non-refundable fee.

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that's my point though. They sign a contract basically upfront for the labor and work put in. If it states that on the initial document they sign then shouldn't this be bnding.

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I posted this on the sister thread, also:


This is a topic that's been broached a number of times on the forum.

You won't like my response, but its not meant to flame.

My problems with your post are:

1) you say you are a "senior loan officer" ....don't get me started on the title alone......how can a "senior loan officer" not know the answer to the question........?

furthermore

2) you're admittedly already charging the fee........its safe to assume you did exactly no investigation beforehand as to its legality.....?

3) assuming your fee is legal, have you established (or even bothered to investigate) an escrow account for the funds....?

4) does your company's management (I use that term loosely.......very loosely) know you are doing this? Is it policy? or something they just allow to perpetuate because they either don't know you're doing it or are just too sloppy, mismanaged, and disorganized to ascertain if its legal or not?

5) how long have you been charging such a fee and how much?

6) you state your app fee is non-refundable.....what happens if they rescind.........?


Answers please.

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Originally posted by nrossa

I charge an upfront, non-refundable application fee to my borrowers prior to putting in all the work on the approval process. They sign the contract acknowledging this fee upfront. Is this illegal or unethical if its fully disclosed? Appreciate the feedback

Nick Rossa
Senior Loan Advisor
E-Value Mortgage
888-727-7257 x.501
813-326-2081
nickr@evaluemortgage.com

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Originally posted by broker3271

You know what, good for you. If you charge a nominal upfront fee it commits a borrower to you and makes them less likely to shop. If it were illegal in your state just call it refundable deposit, similar to what contractors do.

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Originally posted by nrossa

I know the Sr. Thing bothers you, its irrelavent, so please let t go. I have done a lot of research on this topic and have found nothng where its not allowed. I deal with about 15 realtors who send me mostly purchase business. They know about the fee, as well as the borrowers upfront. Its impossible for me to work with every client, so.I thought about this fee upfront to weed out the unqualified people or ones who weren't serious borrowers. I don't ever deal with a loan rescinding. Apartment complexes and other people charge upfront before any qualifications are made, I don't see why this would be different. Just a question, not saying I fully implemented it. In a tough market why not charge for your initial labor though?

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Originally posted by clydesnodgrass

I know this is long, but I promise, it's not ranting at all.

Johnyboy, lets start with you – why is he foolish? Just curious? You seem to have a lot to say recently to different people when you don’t agree with them… everyone’s entitled to their own opinion, you just seem to state yours as concrete fact, but that’s besides the point. If we're not allowed to accept money in the state of Florida per two of your posts ago and there are all these provisions for it - what is form (OFR-494-09) for - google it since you probably don't know? Then there is the Florida Mortgage Broker Form has a spot specifically for the application fee, if you're charging one. The form is the do-all-end-all for collecting fees as if that's not correct, even if you had a final GFE that's accurate, the borrower can sue you for reimbursement of fees collected amongst other things.

Straight outta the 494 regs:

2) At the time a written mortgage brokerage agreement is executed by the borrower or forwarded to the borrower for execution, or at the time the mortgage brokerage business accepts an application fee, credit report fee, property appraisal fee, or any other third-party fee, but not less than 3 business days before execution of the closing or settlement statement, the mortgage brokerage business shall disclose in writing to any applicant for a mortgage loan the following information:

And my personal favorite since you seem to know everything:

4) If the mortgage brokerage agreement includes a nonrefundable application fee, the following requirements are applicable:

(a) The amount of the application fee, which must be clearly denominated as such, shall be clearly disclosed.

(b) The specific services that will be performed in consideration for the application fee shall be disclosed.

(c) The application fee must be reasonably related to the services to be performed and may not be based upon a percentage of the principal amount of the loan or the amount financed.


BTW - Are you even licensed in Florida? I HIGHLY doubt it or you'd know the law.

Having said that.

This is why I think this site isn’t nearly as good as it could be if replies like some of these wouldn’t happen. He asked a simple question, for feedback - instead you guys berated him about his title, collecting a fee and his business license and whether or not it was valid, he never said he owned the company. I’m going to pretend I am some of you and assume some things, since he hasn’t answered. I’ll be the one to play devils advocate for HIM since you guys have done a good job of assuming he did absolutely everything wrong. Also, for the record, I live in Tampa in case anyone wants to search my license and where I used to work since I expect a few remarks about my qualifications and knowledge… but I don’t know him in case anyone wants to try and call foul like he had someone come defend him, since I’m not on anyone’s side. I haven’t ‘closed thousands’ since 89’, so dunno if my opinion counts as much as some other old schoolers.

First off - he said it himself, "I guess I need to update my signature" before anyone said anything about his place of business and it not being legit anymore or if he was even licensed. You guys spent all this time checking to see if he was ‘licensed’ instead of checking to see when he signed up, which would have been 2006… about two years prior to the license on the business in his signature expiring… so a little over 6 months ago it expired. He’s had .1 posts per day out of 105 posts… so it’d be safe to say that he hasn’t posted in a while… there wasn’t even a list of posts like there usually is on the side because apparently, it’s the only one he’s posted in in as long as the system ‘remembers’ your subscriptions. I looked, the principal broker that owns the company he works/worked for IS licensed in the state of Florida until 8/31/2009. If you guys dug harder instead of throwing stones, you would see for yourself. This ALL goes back to him saying he needed to update his sig. I know at least 5 different brokers that have changed the names of their companies since last year… the guy that owned Evaluemortgage.com is still licensed and had to renew his license AFTER Evaluemortgage.com EXPIRED. The OP obviously doesn’t frequent this site very often, maybe he doesn’t live on it like some of you do and maybe he has a life. He lives in Tampa, there is PLENTY to do here every night of the week. We all can’t live near the Golden Hills Golf and Country Club.

Secondly – this is Florida and there are different types of licensure for the actual business here. You did NOT have to have a mortgage brokers license in the state of Florida to originate a loan if you work for a correspondent lender or an actual lender, at least until the end of the year when all brokers were instructed that they would need to get licensed by the end of the year and that ‘loophole’ goes away. Who knows how long it’s been since he worked at Evaluemortgage, none of you even gave him a chance without automatically accusing him of not knowing what he’s doing. And for the record, you can work at a mortgage broker business (MBB) and still originate files and NOT be licensed, you are just not allowed to quote rates/fees (which I admit is difficult to have to pass off to someone else to quote and then hand it back).

SIDE NOTE – for those out of state, there are two types of main licenses in Florida. MBB (mortgage broker business) and CL (correspondent lender). One requires a license to work (MBB) and the other does not (CL), you are licensed under the principal broker.

Thirdly – if he wants to charge a fee and is a good enough salesman to do so, who cares. It’s HIS business model, HIS clients, HIS line of work. You guys are out of state, some of you hundreds if not thousands of miles away, what do you care if he charges a fee to a local individual (again – he said he gets referrals). If his clients think he did an ok job, all the while charging a fee, who are you guys to tell him he’s a jerk for doing so? Just because you don’t charge a fee, doesn’t mean no one else can – I know a handful of places that do and haven’t had ONE complaint because they go about it the right way. He’s in Florida and there isn’t a huge refi boom for us right now and like he said, he gets referrals from realtors which are 99.9% of the time purchases where the rescind law/rule does not apply to monies received (I’m 80% sure of this one so don’t chop my head off if God forbid I had one fact wrong).

I had a “FOURTH” section dedicated to my opinion about the owner of his company being first responsible in regards to making sure he is compliant… but that debate can be argued both ways since the file starts with the LO, but ends when he gets paid from the owner of the company, who, IMHO, should have made sure it was compliant PRIOR to funding the deal in the first place.

Having said all that… if I missed something or misspelled ‘transcripts’, I’m sure someone will point it out. If I misquoted a law incorrectly, I’m sure I’ll be lambasted and if I had a comma where I needed a period – please, let me know since we all know that is what this forum is about right? Not the sharing of knowledge and helpful tips… but lessons in tongue lashings and spelling - right guys?

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Originally posted by clydesnodgrass
The industry is in tatters because of $2 trillion in ARM resets in 2007. It's in tatters because of $2 trillion in Option ARM resets at the end of the year. It's in tatters because Accredited, New Century, Option One, etc paid 3% on a 2/28 ARM at a rate of 11% and based it off of ridiculous indexes and added HUGE margins to the file to line THEIR pockets. It's in tatters because there wasn't a system in place 5 or 6 years ago to police ANY of that because everyone was too busy lining their pockets and buying 50' boats and Ducatti motorcycles.

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Originally posted by clydesnodgrass
Although I agree with some of the article, the part about speculative homes, teaser rates and homes that only defaulted if the rate went up 4% I absolutely have to call BS on and we all know it. I'm going to use a real live example of three individual I kow very well in Tampa that between the three of them, own 16 homes... 2 of them are primaries and the other 14 are rental properties. Guess how many of them are in default? 13. The ONLY reason the 14th isn't is because he got a loan mod done and his payment dropped by almost half. All of these guys got pay-opt arms with the 1% teaser rate... and that's just an isolated incident that I can personally speak for.

How many people left their homes because their payment went up $600, $600 they can't afford? Sure, you can blame it on downsizing and some of them not having jobs, but the door swings both way in that argument.

He argues that the overall impact of upward interest rate resets is much smaler than the impact from equity... they are all intertwined. Equity went down when people started foreclosing and short selling their homes, adjusting the values on homes that we all paid twice as much on.

Again - just my opinion. Like I said, the WSJ is good if you're looking for specific, raw data on publically traded companies, but that's as far as it goes for me.

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