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quasigovy
494 Posts |
 Posted - 10/15/2008 : 11:28:04 PM
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Wells Fargo CEO Richard Kovacevich, known as Dick, and other Wells top brass have been making the rounds on TV claiming that they did not do Alt-A and Sub Prime.
These lies could end up costing share holders a ton of money. We should not allow our financial leaders to lie to us like this.
If you were around to write Alt-A or Sub Prime with Wells Fargo please post the types of loans you closed with them.
Please stay on subject and only reply with loan scenarios you know they offered.
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pmbjed
90 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 12:11:04 AM
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| Wells was originally the #1 subprime lender as of the MBA's Q2 2006 scoreboard; however in recent months they ceased including their servicing activities, and thus dropped to some lower implied "rank". (From the implode-o-meter #154) |
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GVDenny
329 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 01:14:23 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by quasigovy
Wells Fargo CEO Richard Kovacevich, known as Dick, and other Wells top brass have been making the rounds on TV claiming that they did not do Alt-A and Sub Prime.
These lies could end up costing share holders a ton of money. We should not allow our financial leaders to lie to us like this.
If you were around to write Alt-A or Sub Prime with Wells Fargo please post the types of loans you closed with them.
Please stay on subject and only reply with loan scenarios you know they offered.
Show me a link where they said that. |
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VVance
2486 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 06:18:25 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by GVDenny
quote:
Originally posted by quasigovy
Wells Fargo CEO Richard Kovacevich, known as Dick, and other Wells top brass have been making the rounds on TV claiming that they did not do Alt-A and Sub Prime.
These lies could end up costing share holders a ton of money. We should not allow our financial leaders to lie to us like this.
If you were around to write Alt-A or Sub Prime with Wells Fargo please post the types of loans you closed with them.
Please stay on subject and only reply with loan scenarios you know they offered.
Show me a link where they said that.
I saw that too. I found it funny since Wells had an entire division devoted to sub-prime. |
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jscorbett
3648 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 06:23:20 AM
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| Exactly, but from what I understand , they have not started FC on many of the properties they should have |
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WorldWideWayne
2397 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 08:04:51 AM
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I was Wells Sub Prime!
Maybe I can find an old matrix...lol...that would be funny.
We offered everything sub prime, just 5% ltv lower or 1 point higher than everyone else.
What we did not want to do we brokered out.
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808
2510 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 08:07:23 AM
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| Wells Fargo never did Neg Am loans, maybe that's his definition of AltA. I like how he avoids telling what their real problem is, how many 100% Stated 660FICO HELOCS/HELOAN 2nd's they did, and like WAMU & Countrywide, how much exposure they have in the IE right now. I think the shareholders would find that raw data pretty interesting and possibly sell, sell, sell. |
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Xanthan Gum
909 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 08:15:37 AM
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| Personally I closed more subprime loans with Wells Fargo than any other subprime lender. Their products and pricing were good and the AE was one of my friends. |
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natetheskate
611 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 08:17:21 AM
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| in the fed meeting about buying into the banks wells said the same old story... my nick name for them is wells ****os... |
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nowbroker
1364 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 08:17:53 AM
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Just read an article in the Wall Street Journal how in the latest quarter they DECREASED as a percentage their loan loss reserves in order to pump up their income. Lets make the numbers say what we want to the public.
They also made a boat load of 80/20's. |
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jscorbett
3648 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 08:18:48 AM
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| I only did last resort with Wells sub, the AE was an idiot and their pricing couldnt touch NC |
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jb060310
316 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 08:51:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by nowbroker
Just read an article in the Wall Street Journal how in the latest quarter they DECREASED as a percentage their loan loss reserves in order to pump up their income. Lets make the numbers say what we want to the public.
They also made a boat load of 80/20's.
Why not decrease loan loss reserves if you don't need them? Some of the comments on this thread are wild accusations that seem made up. Not starting foreclosure on homes they should have? Where did that info come from? They are and have always been a conservative bank. I am curious to see where the CEO actually said this stuff? Is there a link so I can read it? And by the way, Warren Buffett's largest investment, percentage wise, is Wells. You can't get a lot over on him. |
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khoiey
1573 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 08:52:38 AM
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| So did all mothers of lenders. I can't recall a lender who wouldn't do subprime business back then. Right now, seriously though... We can't afford Wells to quit wholesale. |
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quasigovy
494 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 10:00:55 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by GVDenny
quote:
Originally posted by quasigovy
Wells Fargo CEO Richard Kovacevich, known as Dick, and other Wells top brass have been making the rounds on TV claiming that they did not do Alt-A and Sub Prime.
These lies could end up costing share holders a ton of money. We should not allow our financial leaders to lie to us like this.
If you were around to write Alt-A or Sub Prime with Wells Fargo please post the types of loans you closed with them.
Please stay on subject and only reply with loan scenarios you know they offered.
Show me a link where they said that.
You have to pay to see the link on CNBC.
I promise you that I saw the interview live, and he claimed they had little exposure to Alt-A and subprime.
Lies like this will cost investors millions. It is not OK.
If anyone else has a link please provide it.
More stories please!!! |
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lucky1s
3614 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 10:03:23 AM
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| Only their retail would do 100% stated. They cant blame the brokers. |
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cindyhulett
349 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 10:23:08 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Xanthan Gum
Personally I closed more subprime loans with Wells Fargo than any other subprime lender. Their products and pricing were good and the AE was one of my friends.
I as well. I even sent many of my A paper loans through Wells subprime because there were better programs available. Their rates were awesome. They also had 5 year prepays for which they got in trouble over. |
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Captain Mortgage
1721 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 10:47:44 AM
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| This thread just reminded me. I need to call some people who are having their 5 year wells fargo sub-prime pre-pay expiring next month. |
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cindyhulett
349 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 11:32:13 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain Mortgage
This thread just reminded me. I need to call some people who are having their 5 year wells fargo sub-prime pre-pay expiring next month.
Is that intended as a sarcasm? |
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VVance
2486 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 11:46:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jb060310
quote:
Originally posted by nowbroker
Just read an article in the Wall Street Journal how in the latest quarter they DECREASED as a percentage their loan loss reserves in order to pump up their income. Lets make the numbers say what we want to the public.
They also made a boat load of 80/20's.
Why not decrease loan loss reserves if you don't need them? Some of the comments on this thread are wild accusations that seem made up. Not starting foreclosure on homes they should have? Where did that info come from? They are and have always been a conservative bank. I am curious to see where the CEO actually said this stuff? Is there a link so I can read it? And by the way, Warren Buffett's largest investment, percentage wise, is Wells. You can't get a lot over on him.
Here you go...
http://mrmortgage.ml-implode.com/2008/10/03/wells-fargo-absolutely-did-subprime-stated-no-ratio-etc/ |
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WorldWideWayne
2397 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 11:54:24 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain Mortgage
This thread just reminded me. I need to call some people who are having their 5 year wells fargo sub-prime pre-pay expiring next month.
No need, most of THOSE people have lost their homes by now. It's hard to have a 2/28 r a 3/27 with a 5 yr ppp... |
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just in kase
474 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 11:56:38 AM
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| i remember at one time. Wells Fargo Subprime was at 30+ days Underwriting- Prime borrower could get a low LTV 30 due 30 or 15 fixed rate loan at 4.75% par when Fannie was at 5.5% par.... so not all loans thier subprime portfolio are bad. |
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Captain Mortgage
1721 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 2:48:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cindyhulett
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Mortgage
This thread just reminded me. I need to call some people who are having their 5 year wells fargo sub-prime pre-pay expiring next month.
Is that intended as a sarcasm?
Yes |
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cindyhulett
349 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 2:58:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Captain Mortgage
quote:
Originally posted by cindyhulett
quote:
Originally posted by Captain Mortgage
This thread just reminded me. I need to call some people who are having their 5 year wells fargo sub-prime pre-pay expiring next month.
Is that intended as a sarcasm?
Yes
I did many loans at Wells that carried 5 year prepays. Especially in 2002 and 2003. This got them into trouble not long after they got into trouble for opening credit lines for their customers without their authorization. |
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nowbroker
1364 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 4:13:18 PM
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I could not find the Wall Street Journal link, but Forbes has the same story about Wells Fargo being "gentle" on the books to make things look good to the public:
http://www.forbes.com/afxnewslimited/feeds/afx/2008/10/16/afx5561329.html
A little bit of fuzzy math, this says it in a nut shell:
But part of that better-than-expected performance came from setting aside just $2.495 billion for loan losses -- about $500 million less than the second quarter.
Setting aside less money for losses is puzzling, because the bank's loan losses increased: the company charged off $1.995 billion for bad loans in the third quarter, or almost $500 million more than the second quarter.
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caadacjohn
597 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 6:17:24 PM
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I always resented LO's that would put a person into a 2/28 or 3/27 with a 5 yr. pre-pay....only ONE reason to screw someone over like that...GREED!
(3) on the back...right? Wells was famous for the (3) rebate! |
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Edumakated
135 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 6:48:14 PM
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That is hilarious. Wells definitely did crappy subprime loans. In fact, the Wells AE for their subprime division who used to call on my office got 87 months for mortgage fraud to boot!
http://www.mortgagefraudblog.com/index.php/weblog/permalink/second_indianapolis_man_sentenced_in_promised_land_mortgage_fraud_flipping_/ |
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clearwaterny
347 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 7:45:44 PM
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He was actually on CNBC interviewing with one of the reporters and made the comments that they never did Alt-A loans. Mr. Mortgage on ML-Implode actually has a piece about that in which he pulls up a couple of rate sheets to prove the CEO wrong lol. I remember they did subprime up to 85%, never closed with them though.quote:
Originally posted by jb060310
quote:
Originally posted by nowbroker
Just read an article in the Wall Street Journal how in the latest quarter they DECREASED as a percentage their loan loss reserves in order to pump up their income. Lets make the numbers say what we want to the public.
They also made a boat load of 80/20's.
Why not decrease loan loss reserves if you don't need them? Some of the comments on this thread are wild accusations that seem made up. Not starting foreclosure on homes they should have? Where did that info come from? They are and have always been a conservative bank. I am curious to see where the CEO actually said this stuff? Is there a link so I can read it? And by the way, Warren Buffett's largest investment, percentage wise, is Wells. You can't get a lot over on him.
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scottee10
43 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 8:02:18 PM
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| The sub prime loans have come and gone......Anyone remember their "min doc" programs???? As in Alt A......Their real problem lies in their huge heloc portfolio--most of which have no collateral behind them....... |
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quasigovy
494 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2008 : 01:58:20 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by scottee10
The sub prime loans have come and gone......Anyone remember their "min doc" programs???? As in Alt A......Their real problem lies in their huge heloc portfolio--most of which have no collateral behind them.......
What were their "min doc" programs?
Did they do reduced doc equity lines? |
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cindyhulett
349 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2008 : 10:22:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by caadacjohn
I always resented LO's that would put a person into a 2/28 or 3/27 with a 5 yr. pre-pay....only ONE reason to screw someone over like that...GREED!
(3) on the back...right? Wells was famous for the (3) rebate!
Incorrect. That 5 year prepay came iwth the best rate possible. No rebate. |
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reverse07
8 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2008 : 11:16:40 AM
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I worked in our NH Wells Fargo office for over 3 years...in 2004 we had 3 sub-prime loan officers...Reps. from Option One, First Franklin, and the rest were in our office weekly.
Quote from one subprime LO "Just made $12,000" on a loan"...Obviously, the borrower could not afford any other option...classic example of taking advantage of the people who can least afford to be exploited.
Obviously, Wells memory recall is somewhat distorted.
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loancloser1342
438 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2008 : 12:46:13 PM
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Actually, they did 100% LTV and CLTV subprime.
quote:
Originally posted by clearwaterny
He was actually on CNBC interviewing with one of the reporters and made the comments that they never did Alt-A loans. Mr. Mortgage on ML-Implode actually has a piece about that in which he pulls up a couple of rate sheets to prove the CEO wrong lol. I remember they did subprime up to 85%, never closed with them though.
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quasigovy
494 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2008 : 2:39:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by loancloser1342
Actually, they did 100% LTV and CLTV subprime.
quote:
Originally posted by clearwaterny
He was actually on CNBC interviewing with one of the reporters and made the comments that they never did Alt-A loans. Mr. Mortgage on ML-Implode actually has a piece about that in which he pulls up a couple of rate sheets to prove the CEO wrong lol. I remember they did subprime up to 85%, never closed with them though.
Do you remember the credit scores needed? |
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loancloser1342
438 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2008 : 3:03:47 PM
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| I remember a friend buying a place with a 590 fico and getting an 80/20 from them. Rates were 8.5% and 12%. |
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monstr
11 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2008 : 3:42:11 PM
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All hell should break loose. This guy is going to hell for lying like that. It was well understood that when you were hired as a LO for Wells Fargo that you went for a one week training. At that training they went over specifically how Wells was taken over by Norwest, not merged with but taken over. From what I gathered in the training was that they kept the name because it was more recognizable. The regular A paper products were still there but the subprime came from Norwest. The subprime retail division was called Wells Fargo Home Morgtage. The "A" paper loans were regulated to the banking division. The training we recieved as LO's for Wells Fargo Home Mortgage was straight and to the point. Qualify them and juice them for all their worth. The compensation was no where near what an outside broker could provide but you had the name recognition and a bank reputation behind you. Wells Fargo Bank may have not done subprime but Wells Fargo Home Mortgage was subprime. And to my understanding the wholesale division offering all products was under the Wells Fargo Home Mortgage division.
Former employee........ |
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quasigovy
494 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2008 : 05:29:13 AM
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| Did Wells Fargo Bank hold the sub prime paper that Wells Fargo Home Mortgage wrote? |
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WorldWideWayne
2397 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2008 : 06:44:45 AM
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http://www.responsiblelending.org/pdfs/ip004-Wells_Fargo-0404.pdf
This is a great article from 2004 exposing Wells for what they were doing. It details Wells entry into subprime as far back as 1998.
It's 11 pages but dont worry it's wide margins and big print...It was a good read. |
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ritabradley01
3158 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2008 : 07:14:54 AM
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| I do my personal banking there. Can anyone recommend a good credit union in the Orange County CA area? |
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sxassy
231 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2008 : 08:38:11 AM
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I still have some of my wells rate sheets going back to 2003. There are loan programs for people LESS than a year out of BK and foreclosure. Two selling points on the sheets that I found interesting:
1) "Help you borrowers buy up! DTI to 55%"
2) ".25 rate REDUCTION, for loans with GREATER than 75% LTV"
At the top it says "Wells Fargo Subprime Wholesale Rate Sheet" |
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quasigovy
494 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2008 : 12:01:34 PM
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Many poeple are investing in Wells becuase they think none of the loans you have described were closed by them.
Do everyone a favor and spread the word about this.
More stories please!!!!! |
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caadacjohn
597 Posts |
Posted - 10/18/2008 : 3:34:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by cindyhulett
quote:
Originally posted by caadacjohn
I always resented LO's that would put a person into a 2/28 or 3/27 with a 5 yr. pre-pay....only ONE reason to screw someone over like that...GREED!
(3) on the back...right? Wells was famous for the (3) rebate!
Incorrect. That 5 year prepay came iwth the best rate possible. No rebate.
I still have to ask....why would a LO put someone into a 2/28 or 3/27 with a 5 yr. pre-pay? and no rebate...right LOL...the Well's sub-prime sheets I had CLEARLY priced out to (3) rebate on a number of products. (maybe not a 5 yr. pre-pay but that doesnt make since....usually you get more money for longer pre-pays??hmmmm???) |
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quasigovy
494 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2008 : 11:52:10 AM
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| It does not get much more predatory than that. I can not believe Wells had that option. |
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quasigovy
494 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 8:32:08 PM
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| Did anyone close reduced doc equity lines with Wells Fargo? |
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loancloser1342
438 Posts |
Posted - 10/20/2008 : 9:18:59 PM
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| I also remember that Wells was one of the primary investors for Ameriquest retail originated mortgages. So, I imagine that Wells was holding on to their own paper if they went so far as to buy others sub-prime crap. |
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quasigovy
494 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 06:51:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by loancloser1342
I also remember that Wells was one of the primary investors for Ameriquest retail originated mortgages. So, I imagine that Wells was holding on to their own paper if they went so far as to buy others sub-prime crap.
WOW |
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jb060310
316 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 07:08:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by loancloser1342
I also remember that Wells was one of the primary investors for Ameriquest retail originated mortgages. So, I imagine that Wells was holding on to their own paper if they went so far as to buy others sub-prime crap.
You are confusing Wells with WAMU. |
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loancloser1342
438 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 09:30:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jb060310
quote:
Originally posted by loancloser1342
I also remember that Wells was one of the primary investors for Ameriquest retail originated mortgages. So, I imagine that Wells was holding on to their own paper if they went so far as to buy others sub-prime crap.
You are confusing Wells with WAMU.
Wrong. WAMU did not start buying mortgages from Ameriquest until they began originating ALT-A loans, which was in early 2006. They never did many of those. They went out of business shortly thereafter. |
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jb060310
316 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 10:49:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by loancloser1342
quote:
Originally posted by jb060310
quote:
Originally posted by loancloser1342
I also remember that Wells was one of the primary investors for Ameriquest retail originated mortgages. So, I imagine that Wells was holding on to their own paper if they went so far as to buy others sub-prime crap.
You are confusing Wells with WAMU.
Wrong. WAMU did not start buying mortgages from Ameriquest until they began originating ALT-A loans, which was in early 2006. They never did many of those. They went out of business shortly thereafter.
Ameriquest sold most of its loans to WAMU. Their branch system closed early in 2006 and they went to a few national offices, strictly by phone, so they were not doing much business at all. If you want to call them Alt-A, they started originating them in early 2005. Prior to that, WAMU purchased a lot of their loans. But this isn't a thread on Ameriquest. |
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mojojojo_1
838 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2008 : 12:18:56 PM
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http://www.marke*****ch.com/news/story/wells-fargo-close-wholesale-subprime-lending/story.aspx?guid=%7B16675E7F-1758-40C0-A418-603C778B4E41%7D
wells exits subprime but continues with
Wells Fargo, (WFC:Wells Fargo & Company
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Last: 33.61+1.38+4.28%
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WFC 33.61, +1.38, +4.3%) San Francisco, said it will continue to originate subprime loans through channels like Wells Fargo Home Mortgage and Wells Fargo Bank. |
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quasigovy
494 Posts |
Posted - 11/07/2008 : 12:45:38 PM
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HERE WE GO!!!!
Wells Fargo Doubles Down
By Morgan Housel
November 7, 2008
http://www.fool.com/investing/dividends-income/2008/11/07/wells-fargo-doubles-down.aspx#commentsBoxAnchor
Shares of Wells Fargo (NYSE: WFC) fell yesterday. Why? It raised capital. Shares of Ambac Financial (NYSE: ABK) fell 24% yesterday. Why? It needs more capital. Man, financial firms can't do anything right these days.
Wells Fargo raised $11 billion in fresh equity yesterday by issuing common stock, down from the $20 billion it planned on raising to help usher in its pending of acquisition of Wachovia (NYSE: WB).
But, wait, does Wells really need the money? Didn't it just get $25 billion from the Treasury? And wasn't Chairman Richard Kovacevich opposed to taking those funds? Yep. That's where things get interesting.
You can hypothesize all sorts of reasons why the market took raising $11 billion as bad news. One, a flustered Kovacevich might use the funds to pay back some of the Treasury's injection, which would sort of remove it from the bailout crowd. That could be a good thing; freeing Wells Fargo from the stigma that accompanies accepting government funds. But you could also take it as the company getting too cocky with its relative health.
It's sort of like ignoring your doctors when they say you need help … probably not a good idea in general.
Another issue with Wells Fargo raising $11 billion: It looks like the $20 billion it had originally planned on raising may have been out of its grasp. Given its market cap of less than $100 billion, and with shares under fire, issuing gobs of stock and hoping investors bite may have proved easier said than done. If scraping up cash by selling new shares were a piece of cake, Wells could always issue the remaining $9 billion down the road if and when markets mellow out. That it seems unable to at present just adds a layer of uncertainty to things.
A third fear is that Wells Fargo has realized how dire things are, and that it needs the Treasury's $25 billion and another $11 billion just to stay comfortably capitalized. If true, that's a scary realization for companies like Morgan Stanley (NYSE: MS), State Street (NYSE: STT) and Citigroup (NYSE: C).
It might signal that the market has deteriorated so greatly that the Treasury's injection may not be enough to keep things in check.
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quasigovy
494 Posts |
Posted - 11/11/2008 : 06:14:29 AM
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Merideth Whitney has now called out Wells Fargo
Check it out
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=920170651&play=1 |
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