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MortgageBoarder
3975 Posts |
 Posted - 10/15/2008 : 10:04:49 PM
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Well, seeing as how the first $250B of this "bailout" is NOT being used to purchase toxic mortgages, rather being used to infuse and nationalize top American banks and staking on equity shares, certainly sounds like a qualifier to me!
Funny, believe it or not, but I spoke with the wife of one of the top Wells Fargo dogs today and she expressed her views on the current crisis. Her and her husband are quote unquote Conservatives, and have stood firmly behind the Gov. not bailing out the banks. Her husband has a $900k+ base income which he would have happily walked away from if they would have went with the pitch, and she said they (Wells Fargo) were very firm on standing against the Gov. infusion.
Luckily Wells was not one of the top 6 and did not have to be forced into the infusion, I'm glad that someone is standing up for their values for once!!
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quasigovy
494 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2008 : 10:30:22 PM
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FYI-
Wells accepted $25 billion of this cash. Did your friends tell you otherwise????
If they did........ WOW! They must think you live in a cave!!!
The thing is, they are pretending like they did not want it, but they did. Wells has performed one of the best smoke screens ever for the past year. They are secretly in TERRIBLE shape, but now at least they can blame their downfall on the Wachovia purchase.
Wells is insolvent. There is no question about it.
Do some research on what "level 3 assets" are. They have the market cornered on these. |
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quasigovy
494 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2008 : 10:34:57 PM
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One more thing......
The Wells CEO has been on TV claiming they did not do Alt-A or Subprime. This is an outright lie and everyone on this site knows it. Too bad thier shareholder's don't!!!
Is this an example of the values you admire? If so, I hope you don't vote. |
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MortgageBoarder
3975 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2008 : 10:43:17 PM
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| Was not aware of that. Don't be so quick to judge dude, I am much more open than you assume. |
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quasigovy
494 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2008 : 10:48:48 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by MortgageBoarder
Was not aware of that. Don't be so quick to judge dude, I am much more open than you assume.
OK. Sorry.
To be honest, the crap Wells is getting away with has me pissed off. People are going to lose a lot of money over their lies, unless the government keeps the stock price above $25.
These lies have to stop. I am guessing the CEO is aware of the Sarbanes-Oxley act, so maybe he knows they will not be exposed???
This is like Chinese propaganda and is has to stop. |
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pmbjed
90 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2008 : 10:58:48 PM
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It is interesting hearing Wells say they did not do Sub-Prime or Alt-A when in fact they had an entire retail channel, HCS (Home Credit Solutions) dedicated to this type of lending. I was always amazed at the deals they would fund, ususally on a 2/28 with a prepayment penalty. To the best of my knowledge HCS was the only retail channel that could broker out in the unlikely event of a turndown.
How much of the Wachovia garbage do you think Wells will unload on the TARP (the taxpayers)? We will see how "firm" their no government stance is.
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rtrefflich
3400 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2008 : 11:17:11 PM
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| Just about every bank will grab this money whether they need it or not. Everyone will pick up extra money to use to create better market share and get rid of whatever bad debt they have. The govt will then be able to go back in and rework the bad debt into good debt, bring it to performing and then sell it for a profit, or hold onto it and service it and make a ton of money. |
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quasigovy
494 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2008 : 11:29:39 PM
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I have started a thread on the mortgage broker section of this web site.
Please post past wells loan scenarios there. |
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pmbjed
90 Posts |
Posted - 10/15/2008 : 11:51:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by quasigovy
I have started a thread on the mortgage broker section of this web site.
Please post past wells loan scenarios there.
If you want to do detective work Google Wells Fargo HCS. The company websites are down but there are still some private links up. When HCS was shut down some of the HCS producers were convereted to retail. Any originator at WFC (retail, PMB etc) could send their subprime via "prefer-to-refer". I sent them credit/income challenged 80/20's, lousy credit and anything else that did not fit PMB guidelines and most closed. |
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MortgageBoarder
3975 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 12:21:13 AM
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| Either way, are you all ok with this bank nationalization process? Honest opinions? |
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rtrefflich
3400 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 12:24:13 AM
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I am I think it is the only way out. As I mentioned above or on another post, we need to do something to get out of this and allowing the market to correct itself will only prolong the situation
quote:
Originally posted by MortgageBoarder
Either way, are you all ok with this bank nationalization process? Honest opinions?
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MortgageBoarder
3975 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 12:30:08 AM
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I disagree. I think making the efforts we are currently making is what will prolong the inevitable. Though I wish a sudden infusion would correct the markets, I don't believe it will happen, at least not anytime soon. The Gov. is obliviously taking advantage of the broken system which they created in order to gain profits in the long run. They do NOT have the best interest of the people at heart.
I am all for a properly executed plan of action, this whole bailout on the other hand, is blatant treason.
quote:
Originally posted by rtrefflich
I am I think it is the only way out. As I mentioned above or on another post, we need to do something to get out of this and allowing the market to correct itself will only prolong the situation
quote:
Originally posted by MortgageBoarder
Either way, are you all ok with this bank nationalization process? Honest opinions?
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LoanPro71
2676 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 01:08:47 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by quasigovy
FYI-
Wells accepted $25 billion of this cash. Did your friends tell you otherwise????
If they did........ WOW! They must think you live in a cave!!!
The thing is, they are pretending like they did not want it, but they did. Wells has performed one of the best smoke screens ever for the past year. They are secretly in TERRIBLE shape, but now at least they can blame their downfall on the Wachovia purchase.
Wells is insolvent. There is no question about it.
Do some research on what "level 3 assets" are. They have the market cornered on these.
I'm not too sure that Wells had much of a choice in the matter, accoding to this article.
Have you read this yet?
-----------------------------
Drama behind a $250 billion banking deal
By Mark Landler and Eric Dash
Published: October 15, 2008
WASHINGTON: The chief executives of the nine largest banks in the United States trooped into a gilded conference room at the Treasury Department at 3 p.m. Monday. To their astonishment, they were each handed a one-page document that said they agreed to sell shares to the government, then Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson Jr. said they must sign it before they left.
continued here ...
http://www.iht.com/articles/2008/10/15/business/15bailout.php
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quasigovy
494 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 01:12:00 AM
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| What is the definition of "work" ? |
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benjamin
2196 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 09:56:55 AM
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| MortgageBoarder, you mentioned execution. You just used it in a non productive way. |
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MortgageBoarder
3975 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 10:19:14 AM
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Como?
quote:
Originally posted by benjamin
MortgageBoarder, you mentioned execution. You just used it in a non productive way.
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the_mortgage_guy
1178 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 10:22:15 AM
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| I think they should be. It's ridiculous - the lies and the get with program mentality they are putting on the banks is fascist tactics so we can become a socialized economy. This is not the America we were given by our founding fathers. |
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rtrefflich
3400 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 10:30:34 AM
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How will it prolong the inevitable? The problem is no one know what the MBS are worth, everyone has them and on one wants to touch them. If the govt. steps in and purchases them for a reduced rate, not a fire sale rate, but a reduced rate and frees up the capital that these lenders need to keep the wheels turning the problem should help solve itself. Why the govt, because they are the only one big enough and with pockets deep enough to make it happen.
There are two other examples where something to this magnitude has happened and the govt. stepped in with money and both times it made money. The first was the Chrysler loan, or bailout as many would call it. The Govt. made money on it, and it was paid back 2 years sooner. The second was with the "bailout" of the savings and loan. Infusing the system is one thing, but actually purchasing these assets as well as other assets, such as shares in banks is a great way to infuse money into the system and make it better.
This is an awful mess and the inevitable is a complete shutdown of our economy, government, and way of life. This does not postpone the inevitable, it eliminates the inevitable and will reshape our economy. Yes, after all the rich will still make out better than the poor, but no matter what system we have, or what happens they always will.
quote:
Originally posted by MortgageBoarder
I disagree. I think making the efforts we are currently making is what will prolong the inevitable. Though I wish a sudden infusion would correct the markets, I don't believe it will happen, at least not anytime soon. The Gov. is obliviously taking advantage of the broken system which they created in order to gain profits in the long run. They do NOT have the best interest of the people at heart.
I am all for a properly executed plan of action, this whole bailout on the other hand, is blatant treason.
quote:
Originally posted by rtrefflich
I am I think it is the only way out. As I mentioned above or on another post, we need to do something to get out of this and allowing the market to correct itself will only prolong the situation
quote:
Originally posted by MortgageBoarder
Either way, are you all ok with this bank nationalization process? Honest opinions?
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jscorbett
3648 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 10:36:01 AM
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Wells very adamantly tried to refuse the money but were forced
quote:
Originally posted by MortgageBoarder
Was not aware of that. Don't be so quick to judge dude, I am much more open than you assume.
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MortgageBoarder
3975 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 10:50:16 AM
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We'll have to agree to disagree bud. I agree with the concept, but the fact that you say this infusion WILL stop the inevitable is overly optimistic. It may help a LITTLE bit, but there is no snap of a finger save the day at this point. Not to mention what is happening right now goes completely against what this country was built on. It is about time we let this economy suffer from the corruption and greed this country has thrived on for so many years. We must endure the pain to TRULY learn from our mistakes, period.
Call it a foolish opinion, or maybe I'm just young and naive, but I'm calling it like I see it.
quote:
Originally posted by rtrefflich
How will it prolong the inevitable? The problem is no one know what the MBS are worth, everyone has them and on one wants to touch them. If the govt. steps in and purchases them for a reduced rate, not a fire sale rate, but a reduced rate and frees up the capital that these lenders need to keep the wheels turning the problem should help solve itself. Why the govt, because they are the only one big enough and with pockets deep enough to make it happen.
There are two other examples where something to this magnitude has happened and the govt. stepped in with money and both times it made money. The first was the Chrysler loan, or bailout as many would call it. The Govt. made money on it, and it was paid back 2 years sooner. The second was with the "bailout" of the savings and loan. Infusing the system is one thing, but actually purchasing these assets as well as other assets, such as shares in banks is a great way to infuse money into the system and make it better.
This is an awful mess and the inevitable is a complete shutdown of our economy, government, and way of life. This does not postpone the inevitable, it eliminates the inevitable and will reshape our economy. Yes, after all the rich will still make out better than the poor, but no matter what system we have, or what happens they always will.
quote:
Originally posted by MortgageBoarder
I disagree. I think making the efforts we are currently making is what will prolong the inevitable. Though I wish a sudden infusion would correct the markets, I don't believe it will happen, at least not anytime soon. The Gov. is obliviously taking advantage of the broken system which they created in order to gain profits in the long run. They do NOT have the best interest of the people at heart.
I am all for a properly executed plan of action, this whole bailout on the other hand, is blatant treason.
quote:
Originally posted by rtrefflich
I am I think it is the only way out. As I mentioned above or on another post, we need to do something to get out of this and allowing the market to correct itself will only prolong the situation
quote:
Originally posted by MortgageBoarder
Either way, are you all ok with this bank nationalization process? Honest opinions?
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homebroker@sbcgl
3435 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 10:50:32 AM
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First step toward a Socialist USA, when will they install the Lenin statue in front of the Whitehouse?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/wall-street-humiliated-by-nationalisation-of-banks-961397.html |
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rtrefflich
3400 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 10:54:23 AM
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I agree with you, we shouldn't do it, but if we don't then we will have more problems than we can imagine. The peace that we have experienced here at home will change as people will not be able to find food for themselves (and you guys laughed because I have a years storage). Jobs will become few and far between and our entire economy, and our nation will fail. The only answer we have is to bail them out. If we don't it will be catastrophic. It will be much worse than allowing those that got us into this mess to suffer the consequences, because they will be worse than the great depression ever was.
quote:
Originally posted by MortgageBoarder
We'll have to agree to disagree bud. I agree with the concept, but the fact that you say this infusion WILL stop the inevitable is overly optimistic. It may help a LITTLE bit, but there is no snap of a finger save the day at this point. Not to mention what is happening right now goes completely against what this country was built on. It is about time we let this economy suffer from the corruption and greed this country has thrived on for so many years. We must endure the pain to TRULY learn from our mistakes, period.
Call it a foolish opinion, or maybe I'm just young and naive, but I'm calling it like I see it.
quote:
Originally posted by rtrefflich
How will it prolong the inevitable? The problem is no one know what the MBS are worth, everyone has them and on one wants to touch them. If the govt. steps in and purchases them for a reduced rate, not a fire sale rate, but a reduced rate and frees up the capital that these lenders need to keep the wheels turning the problem should help solve itself. Why the govt, because they are the only one big enough and with pockets deep enough to make it happen.
There are two other examples where something to this magnitude has happened and the govt. stepped in with money and both times it made money. The first was the Chrysler loan, or bailout as many would call it. The Govt. made money on it, and it was paid back 2 years sooner. The second was with the "bailout" of the savings and loan. Infusing the system is one thing, but actually purchasing these assets as well as other assets, such as shares in banks is a great way to infuse money into the system and make it better.
This is an awful mess and the inevitable is a complete shutdown of our economy, government, and way of life. This does not postpone the inevitable, it eliminates the inevitable and will reshape our economy. Yes, after all the rich will still make out better than the poor, but no matter what system we have, or what happens they always will.
quote:
Originally posted by MortgageBoarder
I disagree. I think making the efforts we are currently making is what will prolong the inevitable. Though I wish a sudden infusion would correct the markets, I don't believe it will happen, at least not anytime soon. The Gov. is obliviously taking advantage of the broken system which they created in order to gain profits in the long run. They do NOT have the best interest of the people at heart.
I am all for a properly executed plan of action, this whole bailout on the other hand, is blatant treason.
quote:
Originally posted by rtrefflich
I am I think it is the only way out. As I mentioned above or on another post, we need to do something to get out of this and allowing the market to correct itself will only prolong the situation
quote:
Originally posted by MortgageBoarder
Either way, are you all ok with this bank nationalization process? Honest opinions?
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 11:02:34 AM
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| I am curious, and quite sure I am revealing a bit of stupidity on my part, but who got us into this mess? I have my own opinion, but I want to know from others, who do you think got us into this mess? |
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MortgageBoarder
3975 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 11:23:43 AM
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Regulators, GSE's, Government, Investment banks, and the common "Joe take advantage of what's available" consumer. All of whom were driven by greed and a lack of concern for recourse.
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
I am curios, and quite sure I am revealing a bit of stupidity on my part, but who got us into this mess? I have my own opinion, but I want to know from others, who do you think got us into this mess?
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 11:38:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by MortgageBoarder
Regulators, GSE's, Government, Investment banks, and the common "Joe take advantage of what's available" consumer. All of whom were driven by greed and a lack of concern for recourse.
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
I am curios, and quite sure I am revealing a bit of stupidity on my part, but who got us into this mess? I have my own opinion, but I want to know from others, who do you think got us into this mess?
Throw many within the Mortgage Industry in there and we are on the same page. |
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darkstar
18092 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 11:42:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
I am curious, and quite sure I am revealing a bit of stupidity on my part, but who got us into this mess? I have my own opinion, but I want to know from others, who do you think got us into this mess?
This mess was years if not decades in the making...It's a biproduct of the machine, and like all machines it needs maintenance every now and then...
In our case, we need a new machine but as the last few months and future proposals from both sides indicate, the current machine isn't going anywhere...Same machine, same leaders, same results...It's like the definition of insanity, we keep electing the same type of people expecting change ignoring the real problem, the machine itself... |
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the_mortgage_guy
1178 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 11:45:00 AM
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| Make no mistake - this bailout is to cover all Paulson's rich ass freinds and to give the government a source of revenue for when things start to go real sour. Local governments will become a thing of the past. |
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the_mortgage_guy
1178 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 11:46:40 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by homebroker@sbcglobal.net
First step toward a Socialist USA, when will they install the Lenin statue in front of the Whitehouse?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/wall-street-humiliated-by-nationalisation-of-banks-961397.html
It will be Obama's statue in front of the white house. Oh, how the elites love him! |
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the_mortgage_guy
1178 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 11:50:34 AM
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Capitalism was the economic invention taht came from teh idea of a republic form of government. Both depend on people of will and moral turpitude. Both are lacking and have been for some time. I think the people's will was in the minority when the Federal Reserve came into being without a whimper.
The federal charges interest on the money it loans out. Obvious, right. But did you know the FDIC does not. Did you know the only 2 president to be assassinated were also the only 2 presdient to issue money from teh FDIC, not the reserve - interesting. |
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 11:59:53 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by darkstar
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
I am curious, and quite sure I am revealing a bit of stupidity on my part, but who got us into this mess? I have my own opinion, but I want to know from others, who do you think got us into this mess?
This mess was years if not decades in the making...It's a biproduct of the machine, and like all machines it needs maintenance every now and then...
In our case, we need a new machine but as the last few months and future proposals from both sides indicate, the current machine isn't going anywhere...Same machine, same leaders, same results...It's like the definition of insanity, we keep electing the same type of people expecting change ignoring the real problem, the machine itself...
I agree. |
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darkstar
18092 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 12:02:30 PM
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| Like it or not, it really has become Big Brother or even Hal in nature...Seems like it can create it's own scenarios to perpetuate itself and not allow for outside interference... |
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rtrefflich
3400 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 12:44:42 PM
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The Glass Stegal act was put into place in 1933 to ensure that this never happens again. It is through legislation on both sides of the isle over the past 30 years that have enacted that wonderful piece useless. Investment brokers and banks have nothing to do with each other and as we continue thinking they do this will only happen over and over.
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
I am curious, and quite sure I am revealing a bit of stupidity on my part, but who got us into this mess? I have my own opinion, but I want to know from others, who do you think got us into this mess?
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homebroker@sbcgl
3435 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 2:32:54 PM
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Clinton repealed the Glass Steagall act in 1999 with the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, also known as the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Financial Services Modernization Act, Pub.L. 106-102, 113 Stat. 1338, enacted November 12, 1999 signed by Bill Clinton.
This is when the loans started to get really loose.
quote:
Originally posted by rtrefflich
The Glass Stegal act was put into place in 1933 to ensure that this never happens again. It is through legislation on both sides of the isle over the past 30 years that have enacted that wonderful piece useless. Investment brokers and banks have nothing to do with each other and as we continue thinking they do this will only happen over and over.
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
I am curious, and quite sure I am revealing a bit of stupidity on my part, but who got us into this mess? I have my own opinion, but I want to know from others, who do you think got us into this mess?
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Boulderco
1296 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 5:46:08 PM
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| Wells Fargo management take positions based on what they think is good for Wells Fargo, and hence them, not based on some moral principle, unless they believe that moral principle benefits them. It's easy for someone to say as an individual that he would walk away from $900,000 as long as he doesn't actually have to walk away from that $900,000. Then he gets credit for being principled while not having to make the actual sacrifice. A large corporation (meaning the people that make up a corporation) acts morally because it financially benefits the corporation. |
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SolarMTG
387 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 6:29:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
I am curious, and quite sure I am revealing a bit of stupidity on my part, but who got us into this mess? I have my own opinion, but I want to know from others, who do you think got us into this mess?
it is Greenspan's fault no doubt |
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rtrefflich
3400 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2008 : 6:43:09 PM
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It was Greenspan who dropped interest rates and allowed us to borrow to the hilt to keep the economy running, it wasn't Greenspan who allowed anyone who wanted to to purchase a home with no money down on a 2 yr ARM or on a Neg Am loan. There are so many people that are responsible for the mes we got into. Many of them are involved in the sam business you and I am, and many of them are now helping people to rework the bad loans they helped get those people into. Greenspan can have some blame, but you cannot put all the blame on him.
quote:
Originally posted by SolarMTG
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
I am curious, and quite sure I am revealing a bit of stupidity on my part, but who got us into this mess? I have my own opinion, but I want to know from others, who do you think got us into this mess?
it is Greenspan's fault no doubt
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quasigovy
494 Posts |
Posted - 10/17/2008 : 02:01:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by jscorbett
Wells very adamantly tried to refuse the money but were forced
quote:
Originally posted by MortgageBoarder
Was not aware of that. Don't be so quick to judge dude, I am much more open than you assume.
I think they wanted the money, but they want everyone to think that they did not want the money. |
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