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MisterVA
6570 Posts |
 Posted - 10/11/2008 : 3:42:27 PM
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| If they do merge, how would that affect the auto industry? Chrysler has had some nice looking vehicles like the PT Cruiser & 300. GM has had the Homermobile. It could work, though. |
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darkstar
18092 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 8:16:37 PM
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| I think it will mean many layoffs as they reduce the product line, points and need for dual infrastructures...However, it may be the only way they can survive...I'd like to see the big 3 get together and focus on a quality affordable AMERICAN product to compete with the foreign models...If they don't, they're just delaying the inevitable... |
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CoolMtgGuy
3661 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 8:30:47 PM
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| I agree with Darkstar's final comment. This year has already been one of history being made all around in the business world. This may therefore be the best year for GM, Ford and Chrysler to figure out how they can get together and survive as one. None of these companies have the products to continue surviving alone. Toyota is eating their lunch. GM and Ford hung on to the big SUVs for too long. Their mid-sozed and small cars are all very boring. Of the three, Chrysler has some more interesting products and definitely lead in the design department ... in my opinion. |
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RANDY P
2828 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 9:06:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy
I agree with Darkstar's final comment. This year has already been one of history being made all around in the business world. This may therefore be the best year for GM, Ford and Chrysler to figure out how they can get together and survive as one. None of these companies have the products to continue surviving alone. Toyota is eating their lunch. GM and Ford hung on to the big SUVs for too long. Their mid-sozed and small cars are all very boring. Of the three, Chrysler has some more interesting products and definitely lead in the design department ... in my opinion.
Toyota / Honda are the epitome of boring cars, end of story.
GM actually makes a decent product these days, it's just they are too far gone to capitalize on it.
Chrysler is just big, overstyled, cheaply made, plasticky cars that don't stay together worth a crap. They are the worst automaker sold in N America, followed by VW (German Chrysler).
rjp |
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 9:22:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by MisterVA
If they do merge, how would that affect the auto industry? Chrysler has had some nice looking vehicles like the PT Cruiser & 300. GM has had the Homermobile. It could work, though.
I would be surprised if they merged without keeping their separate identities. I imagine you would still have the GM brands and Chrysler brands remain, however I am sure there will be more platform sharing. You could see GM drop GMC, and maybe Pontiac but that is about it.
Both companies and their respective subsidiaries are far too iconic to just be done away with (of course the demise of Osmobile suggests I could be very wrong), I imagine if they merged you would see something similar to the Daimler-Chrysler merger that is obviously no longer. Both Daimler (Mercedes Benz) and Chrysler kept their individual brands, but shared development and Chrysler used discontinue Mercedes Benz platforms. |
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RANDY P
2828 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 9:31:21 PM
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Mercedes kissed Chrysler and turned into a frog. There is a notable difference in quality post 97 Mercedes that is easily recognizable, even from model year to year pictures.
I can't imagine GM taking ANYTHING from Chrysler, they are a distant 2nd to GM in most categories if you count their different divisions as one- Chrysler really has nothing to contribute to this merger except maybe the Viper brand and Full size trucks - of which GM still owns them badly.
Or maybe they'll do the right thing and drop an LS2 into that PT Cruiser.
rjp |
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 9:39:07 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RANDY P
Mercedes kissed Chrysler and turned into a frog. There is a notable difference in quality post 97 Mercedes that is easily recognizable, even from model year to year pictures.
I can't imagine GM taking ANYTHING from Chrysler, they are a distant 2nd to GM in most categories if you count their different divisions as one- Chrysler really has nothing to contribute to this merger except maybe the Viper brand and Full size trucks - of which GM still owns them badly.
Or maybe they'll do the right thing and drop an LS2 into that PT Cruiser.
rjp
You're probably right, however GM could use Chrysler's mini van platform as it is excellent and probably still profitable albeit not quite on par with the Odyssey.
I am sure the Viper brand will be sold off at some point. All other platforms will probably be GM sourced with the exception of the Dodge trucks. They will probably soldier on separate from GM trucks.
I highly doubt such a merger will happen as it makes very little sense in the end. |
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RANDY P
2828 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 9:41:06 PM
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crap, I forgot about that minivan. that idea alone saved 'em last time...
rjp |
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darkstar
18092 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 01:49:25 AM
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| Ford threw their hat into the ring as well...I think it's waht they may need to survive...One company larger than any one of them alone yet smaller than the 3 combined...They still need to make something people want to buy, but I think that would be huge...One large infrastructure compared to 3 is big time savings...A lot of people will lose their jobs but it's better than them all losing their jobs...Life is still good, chin up bucko's! |
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LoanPro71
2676 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 02:26:18 AM
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I've always been a fan of GM products. Some of their models are terrible, but if you do your homework ... you can find some truly outstanding products.
My '96 Buick Park Ave Ultra has been nothing short of amazing. I can't kill the thing. It won't die. I would love to go out and buy a new car ... but this Park Ave won't let me. 
As for Chrysler, the full-size Dodge Pickup with the Cummins Diesel has been a winner. My best friend from high-school is a subcontractor for one of the largest home builders in America and he tells me that the contruction guys LOVE the Dodge with the Cummins Diesel. It's a beast of an engine ... it's got torque up the wazzu ... and has proven reliable as well.
Have you seen the new Dodge Challenger ???
Check this baby out .... a true work of art.
http://www.dodge.com/en/2009/challenger/gallery/
6.1-liter SRT HEMI(R) V8 engine packs 425 horsepower at 6,000 RPM and 420 pounds-feet of torque at 4,800 RPM.
People who say the Big 3 aren't making products that people want to buy haven't been paying attention.
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LoanPro71
2676 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 02:41:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by RANDY P
Mercedes kissed Chrysler and turned into a frog. There is a notable difference in quality post 97 Mercedes that is easily recognizable, even from model year to year pictures.
Indeed.
Even the quality of Mercedes has fallen off since the merger.
Pre '97 Mercedes models are of much higher quality. You can tell the difference by simply opening and closing the doors ... especially in the S series.
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CoolMtgGuy
3661 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 07:22:13 AM
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I am a fan of the old Dodge Challenger. I like power and handling so I now drive a 911 Carrera. I was sitting in my 911 at a light yesterday when a new black Dodge Challenger turned in front of me (good looking blonde driver!) and I could not help myself wanting to turn and follow it to check it out on the road ... but I was running late for an appointment.
I do believe that our US auto companies are capable of producting capable, exciting products ... but they always seem to aim for the lowest common denominator. I became a European car enthusiast many years ago and it is hard for me to return until an Amercian product gives me the same overall pleasure that I get from driving my 911.
quote:
Originally posted by LoanPro71
I've always been a fan of GM products. Some of their models are terrible, but if you do your homework ... you can find some truly outstanding products.
My '96 Buick Park Ave Ultra has been nothing short of amazing. I can't kill the thing. It won't die. I would love to go out and buy a new car ... but this Park Ave won't let me.
As for Chrysler, the full-size Dodge Pickup with the Cummins Diesel has been a winner. My best friend from high-school is a subcontractor for one of the largest home builders in America and he tells me that the contruction guys LOVE the Dodge with the Cummins Diesel. It's a beast of an engine ... it's got torque up the wazzu ... and has proven reliable as well.
Have you seen the new Dodge Challenger ???
Check this baby out .... a true work of art.
http://www.dodge.com/en/2009/challenger/gallery/
6.1-liter SRT HEMI(R) V8 engine packs 425 horsepower at 6,000 RPM and 420 pounds-feet of torque at 4,800 RPM.
People who say the Big 3 aren't making products that people want to buy haven't been paying attention.
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CoolMtgGuy
3661 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 07:28:42 AM
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I don't disagree with your assessment of Toyota or Honda products ... but people are buying them in much higher numbers than they are buying Ford or GM products. You don't agree with that?
These companies simply cannot survive until they deliver products that are capable of outselling the boring Camry and Accord. This is not about exciting muscle cars. Even when I had to get a car for my wife, I bought a VW Passat Wagon with all wheel drive. It is a 2002 model and it still runs like new. US products can't compete with that.
quote:
Originally posted by RANDY P
quote:
Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy
I agree with Darkstar's final comment. This year has already been one of history being made all around in the business world. This may therefore be the best year for GM, Ford and Chrysler to figure out how they can get together and survive as one. None of these companies have the products to continue surviving alone. Toyota is eating their lunch. GM and Ford hung on to the big SUVs for too long. Their mid-sozed and small cars are all very boring. Of the three, Chrysler has some more interesting products and definitely lead in the design department ... in my opinion.
Toyota / Honda are the epitome of boring cars, end of story.
GM actually makes a decent product these days, it's just they are too far gone to capitalize on it.
Chrysler is just big, overstyled, cheaply made, plasticky cars that don't stay together worth a crap. They are the worst automaker sold in N America, followed by VW (German Chrysler).
rjp
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RANDY P
2828 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 08:03:21 AM
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Yeah, I know- Toyo and Honduh have the world snowed.
Good luck with the VW, just give it awhile, something will go up in smoke. Save your money..
rjp
quote:
Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy
I don't disagree with your assessment of Toyota or Honda products ... but people are buying them in much higher numbers than they are buying Ford or GM products. You don't agree with that?
These companies simply cannot survive until they deliver products that are capable of outselling the boring Camry and Accord. This is not about exciting muscle cars. Even when I had to get a car for my wife, I bought a VW Passat Wagon with all wheel drive. It is a 2002 model and it still runs like new. US products can't compete with that.
quote:
Originally posted by RANDY P
quote:
Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy
I agree with Darkstar's final comment. This year has already been one of history being made all around in the business world. This may therefore be the best year for GM, Ford and Chrysler to figure out how they can get together and survive as one. None of these companies have the products to continue surviving alone. Toyota is eating their lunch. GM and Ford hung on to the big SUVs for too long. Their mid-sozed and small cars are all very boring. Of the three, Chrysler has some more interesting products and definitely lead in the design department ... in my opinion.
Toyota / Honda are the epitome of boring cars, end of story.
GM actually makes a decent product these days, it's just they are too far gone to capitalize on it.
Chrysler is just big, overstyled, cheaply made, plasticky cars that don't stay together worth a crap. They are the worst automaker sold in N America, followed by VW (German Chrysler).
rjp
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CoolMtgGuy
3661 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 08:20:48 AM
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I should have clarified that I bought my wife the VW Passat Wagon in 2002. It has been troublefree ever since and she refuses to let me replace it. I also enjoying driving it.
I have owned many vehicles from GM & Ford and drove many beyond that as company cars. I have a lot of personal experience with them and many were not pleasant ones. Unfortunately, even when the exterior styling approaches acceptability, the handling and visceral pleasure of European and Japanses cars have never been achieved in cars from the US car companies. I think that the Caddilac division of GM is on the right track though.
quote:
Originally posted by RANDY P
Yeah, I know- Toyo and Honduh have the world snowed.
Good luck with the VW, just give it awhile, something will go up in smoke. Save your money..
rjp
quote:
Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy
I don't disagree with your assessment of Toyota or Honda products ... but people are buying them in much higher numbers than they are buying Ford or GM products. You don't agree with that?
These companies simply cannot survive until they deliver products that are capable of outselling the boring Camry and Accord. This is not about exciting muscle cars. Even when I had to get a car for my wife, I bought a VW Passat Wagon with all wheel drive. It is a 2002 model and it still runs like new. US products can't compete with that.
quote:
Originally posted by RANDY P
quote:
Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy
I agree with Darkstar's final comment. This year has already been one of history being made all around in the business world. This may therefore be the best year for GM, Ford and Chrysler to figure out how they can get together and survive as one. None of these companies have the products to continue surviving alone. Toyota is eating their lunch. GM and Ford hung on to the big SUVs for too long. Their mid-sozed and small cars are all very boring. Of the three, Chrysler has some more interesting products and definitely lead in the design department ... in my opinion.
Toyota / Honda are the epitome of boring cars, end of story.
GM actually makes a decent product these days, it's just they are too far gone to capitalize on it.
Chrysler is just big, overstyled, cheaply made, plasticky cars that don't stay together worth a crap. They are the worst automaker sold in N America, followed by VW (German Chrysler).
rjp
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RANDY P
2828 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 08:29:52 AM
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I agree with you on the Euro car, but the Japanese car? UGH, talk about cars with NO soul. Japanese cars are disposable...
European cars are amongst the most developed, overbuilt cars, best engineered on the planet. They have to be to survive in the places they are used.
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RANDY P
2828 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 08:33:53 AM
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Oh and Caddy? On the right track everywhere except the pricing?
Who the hell are they kidding with that? I am not payin $70K for a car equipped with an LS3. It's a frekking small block! |
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CoolMtgGuy
3661 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 08:39:06 AM
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Maybe I have been lucky. My Passat wagon and my daughter's VW Beetle have been great cars. My 330 hp, 8-cyl 2004 VW Toureg was my work vehicle until I moved to Florida last year. I loved the Touareg ... it was a blast to drive anywhere.
I used to own a VW GTI (Rabbit based) many years ago as it was my daily commuter. That was also a fun car to drive. My american cars included Grand Prix, Caddilac, Cougar, Capri, Jeeps, Suburban, Old Cutlass S, etc.
quote:
Originally posted by RANDY P
I agree with you on the Euro car, but the Japanese car? UGH, talk about cars with NO soul. Japanese cars are disposable...
European cars are amongst the most developed, overbuilt cars, best engineered on the planet. They have to be to survive in the places they are used.
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RANDY P
2828 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 08:44:21 AM
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I am proud to say that I've only owned ONE Japanese vehicle out of thirty-some odd cars during my driving career.
I used to roll around in an 84 MKI GTI - loved that car- lovingly nicknamed "The Rat" due to it's weathered black finish with plenty of rock chips and dings. Got it for $900 and rolled it for 1.5 years while saving up for my 911.
For a driver's car, Euro. Hands down. For playtime, I like GM.
rjp
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CoolMtgGuy
3661 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 08:54:03 AM
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I was just thinking about ... as you say ... playtime. What does get me excited is watching those car auctions on TV. I'd love have the money to go out there with buy one of those incredibly restored muscle cars (old Vette, GTO or Road Runner, etc). I dream a lot about owning a restored old model muscle car when I watch those shows.
quote:
Originally posted by RANDY P
I am proud to say that I've only owned ONE Japanese vehicle out of thirty-some odd cars during my driving career.
I used to roll around in an 84 MKI GTI - loved that car- lovingly nicknamed "The Rat" due to it's weathered black finish with plenty of rock chips and dings. Got it for $900 and rolled it for 1.5 years while saving up for my 911.
For a driver's car, Euro. Hands down. For playtime, I like GM.
rjp
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RANDY P
2828 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 09:03:53 AM
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Barrett Jackson is the housing bubble of cars. They suck ass since they pushed the 60's iron so now every knucklehead with a rusty 60's car thinks they're sitting on a gold mine.
I can understand rare cars, like a Shelby- loaded with one-off parts, but $60K for a SS Camaro? C'mon.
You don't have to be a Conforming borrower to make a car like that - Even a low FICO / average subprime borrower can build that same SS Camaro with hand tools from harbor freight and parts from a local catalog - it's like paying $100 for a Hamburger, if you know what I mean. |
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CoolMtgGuy
3661 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 09:31:31 AM
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I agree. I don't understand why people pay so much money for some of those cars on BJ auction. I like Mecum auctions as there seem to be more reasonably priced nice cars there. If I won the lottery, I'd definitely get out there to buy a few of thos eold beauties to drive around. I do like to see some modern technlogy incorporated into some of those old cars ... mostly the stuff that improves safety, handling and comfort without messing with the styles. Cool stuff.
quote:
Originally posted by RANDY P
Barrett Jackson is the housing bubble of cars. They suck ass since they pushed the 60's iron so now every knucklehead with a rusty 60's car thinks they're sitting on a gold mine.
I can understand rare cars, like a Shelby- loaded with one-off parts, but $60K for a SS Camaro? C'mon.
You don't have to be a Conforming borrower to make a car like that - Even a low FICO / average subprime borrower can build that same SS Camaro with hand tools from harbor freight and parts from a local catalog - it's like paying $100 for a Hamburger, if you know what I mean.
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MisterVA
6570 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 11:11:32 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by RANDY P
quote:
Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy
I agree with Darkstar's final comment. This year has already been one of history being made all around in the business world. This may therefore be the best year for GM, Ford and Chrysler to figure out how they can get together and survive as one. None of these companies have the products to continue surviving alone. Toyota is eating their lunch. GM and Ford hung on to the big SUVs for too long. Their mid-sozed and small cars are all very boring. Of the three, Chrysler has some more interesting products and definitely lead in the design department ... in my opinion.
Toyota / Honda are the epitome of boring cars, end of story.
GM actually makes a decent product these days, it's just they are too far gone to capitalize on it.
Chrysler is just big, overstyled, cheaply made, plasticky cars that don't stay together worth a crap. They are the worst automaker sold in N America, followed by VW (German Chrysler).
rjp
Had my Plymouth Neon for 5 years. Great mileage. Low maintenance. Definitely not crap. |
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MisterVA
6570 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 11:16:26 AM
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| My present drive is a Pontiac Vibe. Very low maintenance, good comfort, decent mileage, golf clubs fit nicely in the back. Got it in '05 & haven't crossed 60k yet. My 2000 Neon went to 109k before I sold it privately to a friend about a year after I bought the Vibe. |
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RANDY P
2828 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 11:16:53 AM
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The GF has a Ford Explorer (96) she bought new and now has 186K miles and just now is starting to have problems. Even looks low mileage.
Go figure.
rjp |
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stewpot
442 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 11:47:34 AM
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| Just sold my 2002 chevy 1500 yesterday. 153,000 miles and still runs strong. I need a bigger cab as we will be using for fifthwheel. I have never owned a foreign car as my dad was a union man and I was brainwashed as a youngster. My brother came to a family gathering one time in his new BMW. My dad wouldnt let him park it in the driveway.lol |
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LoanPro71
2676 Posts |
Posted - 10/12/2008 : 4:15:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by stewpot
Just sold my 2002 chevy 1500 yesterday. 153,000 miles and still runs strong. I need a bigger cab as we will be using for fifthwheel. I have never owned a foreign car as my dad was a union man and I was brainwashed as a youngster. My brother came to a family gathering one time in his new BMW. My dad wouldnt let him park it in the driveway.lol
My Grandfather was the same way.
When I was in college, I drove a '92 Honda Accord.
Pulled up in the driveway ... and I could tell he was PISSED.
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