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mykal5
2764 Posts |
 Posted - 10/10/2008 : 3:23:42 PM
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How do everyday Americans get to the point where logic, critical thought, and tolerance for an opposing view get thrown out the window? How does an adult allow emotions drive actions?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=itEucdhf4Us
This isn't an indictment of McCain/Palin or Conservatives as I am sure there are plenty of examples where Obama supporters act in the same manner, rather I really want someone who knows a person like those in the video above to answer the following. Are they normally well adjusted people? Have they ever demonstrated a modicum of decorum? I can't imagine they haven't. |
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lunarhamster
4001 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2008 : 3:42:24 PM
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| Seen worse from Obama supporters, both bad. |
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2008 : 4:03:13 PM
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| I am sure you have, but what does it say about seemingly normal people? |
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kbaker
907 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2008 : 4:15:23 PM
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| Note that in the video the McCain supporters responded with facts. Sure a few made flippant remarks walking into a rally while being accosted by Obama supporters. The video remarkably didn't ask ANY of the Obama supporters questions about why they support Obama and the facts they base their opinion. |
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kbaker
907 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2008 : 4:24:57 PM
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Some info on the Rape Kit blurb that pops up during the video. Obama's state does the same thing, so why aren't they pointing this out?
nryan64 See Profile I'm a Fan of nryan64 I'm a fan of this user permalink
As a victim of rape, I kept an open mind as far as this "story" is concerned. I wanted to know all the facts before I made a comment ad many have done so here. I am disgusted by many of the comments here that seem to be based on hearsay. They seem to be coming from such hatred of McCain and in doing so, not being open minded. This is a very serious subject and reading comments that have more to do with your support for a particular candidate then a real dialogue about this important subject is disgusting and offensive. While Palin was mayor, there was one rape reported. Still don't know for sure if she knew about this practice but I do know that Wasilla was NOT the only town that charged for this test.
As far as Palin's allegedly being in favor of the charges based upon the fact that it included the morning after pill, I would have to find out more information about that. Since the pill was given to me when I was in shock and not even fully aware of what was being given to me, I have to say I am not fully in favor of the pill being given so soon after a woman has been raped. We/rape victims are in shock and can't think of much else except being in disbelief this has happened.
Reply Favorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:52 PM on 10/03/2008
- + realdad See Profile I'm a Fan of realdad I'm a fan of this user permalink
I totally disagree with the practice, but it seems that it's not so rare. It seems to be common practice in many states, including N.C., Ga. Arkansas, and Illinois - you know, where that terrific Democratic Senator who's running for President is from....
N.C. hospitals bill rape victims
Mandy Locke
Rape victims across the state are paying for their ill fortune in the most tangible of ways..
The vast majority of the 3,000 or so emergency room patients examined for sexual assaults each year shoulder some of the cost of a rape kit test, according to state records and victim advocates. For some, it's as little as a $50 insurance co-payment..
....an analysis of state records and interviews with hospital officials and administrators at several of the state's major insurers suggest that charging the patients is a widespread practice.
In the cases of more than 2,500 people who receive rape kits each year, hospitals bill the patients' health insurer.
For those without insurance, hospitals send the bills to the N.C. Department of Crime Control and Public Safety, which has a modest fund to help. www.newsobserver.com
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2008 : 4:25:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kbaker
Note that in the video the McCain supporters responded with facts. Sure a few made flippant remarks walking into a rally while being accosted by Obama supporters. The video remarkably didn't ask ANY of the Obama supporters questions about why they support Obama and the facts they base their opinion.
Kurtis, I won't get into a back and forth about facts, if you think the guy is a terrorist, so be it. If you have an issue with a Muslim becoming our POTUS you have that right, but to say those in that video acted with a modicum of decorum is ridiculous. That was what my post was about.
What do you think drives people towards such behavior. |
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2008 : 4:27:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by kbaker
Some info on the Rape Kit blurb that pops up during the video. Obama's state does the same thing, so why aren't they pointing this out?
nryan64 See Profile I'm a Fan of nryan64 I'm a fan of this user permalink
As a victim of rape, I kept an open mind as far as this "story" is concerned. I wanted to know all the facts before I made a comment ad many have done so here. I am disgusted by many of the comments here that seem to be based on hearsay. They seem to be coming from such hatred of McCain and in doing so, not being open minded. This is a very serious subject and reading comments that have more to do with your support for a particular candidate then a real dialogue about this important subject is disgusting and offensive. While Palin was mayor, there was one rape reported. Still don't know for sure if she knew about this practice but I do know that Wasilla was NOT the only town that charged for this test.
As far as Palin's allegedly being in favor of the charges based upon the fact that it included the morning after pill, I would have to find out more information about that. Since the pill was given to me when I was in shock and not even fully aware of what was being given to me, I have to say I am not fully in favor of the pill being given so soon after a woman has been raped. We/rape victims are in shock and can't think of much else except being in disbelief this has happened.
Reply Favorite Flag as abusive Posted 11:52 PM on 10/03/2008
- + realdad See Profile I'm a Fan of realdad I'm a fan of this user permalink
I totally disagree with the practice, but it seems that it's not so rare. It seems to be common practice in many states, including N.C., Ga. Arkansas, and Illinois - you know, where that terrific Democratic Senator who's running for President is from....
N.C. hospitals bill rape victims
Mandy Locke
Rape victims across the state are paying for their ill fortune in the most tangible of ways..
The vast majority of the 3,000 or so emergency room patients examined for sexual assaults each year shoulder some of the cost of a rape kit test, according to state records and victim advocates. For some, it's as little as a $50 insurance co-payment..
....an analysis of state records and interviews with hospital officials and administrators at several of the state's major insurers suggest that charging the patients is a widespread practice.
In the cases of more than 2,500 people who receive rape kits each year, hospitals bill the patients' health insurer.
For those without insurance, hospitals send the bills to the N.C. Department of Crime Control and Public Safety, which has a modest fund to help. www.newsobserver.com
Did you not notice my post or read any of it? I don't excuse anyone in that video including the guy who made the rape kit comment as it is as ridiculous as the others.
What the hell is wrong with you? |
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QUANTAM
230 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2008 : 4:28:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
quote:
Originally posted by kbaker
Note that in the video the McCain supporters responded with facts. Sure a few made flippant remarks walking into a rally while being accosted by Obama supporters. The video remarkably didn't ask ANY of the Obama supporters questions about why they support Obama and the facts they base their opinion.
What do you think drives people towards such behavior.
Ignorance? |
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2008 : 4:32:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by QUANTAM
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
quote:
Originally posted by kbaker
Note that in the video the McCain supporters responded with facts. Sure a few made flippant remarks walking into a rally while being accosted by Obama supporters. The video remarkably didn't ask ANY of the Obama supporters questions about why they support Obama and the facts they base their opinion.
What do you think drives people towards such behavior.
Ignorance?
Ignorance? Could be, but I wonder if it is deeper than that. Maybe it is irrational fear?
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LoanPro71
2676 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2008 : 4:46:41 PM
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That video is tangible proof that the average American voter is a total f*cking moron.
It looked like a Hannity puppet show.
Small-minded fools.... every single one of them ... and a disgrace to White folks everywhere.
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2008 : 6:04:46 PM
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Maybe, it will get back on track
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf6YKOkfFsE&feature=user
I am sure Obama will implore his supporters to do the same. |
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LoanPro71
2676 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2008 : 6:18:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
Maybe, it will get back on track
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kf6YKOkfFsE&feature=user
I am sure Obama will implore his supporters to do the same.
He's an azz kisser.
He also knows that Obama has enough dirt on him to fill up every dump truck in a super convoy.
Let's keep it real.
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ML
3006 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2008 : 7:50:47 PM
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R.I.P. William F. Buckley!
How did Conservatives go from good ole Bill Buckley, the intellectual Conservative you love to hate, but can't out-reason or out-argue; to Sarah Palin?
Conservatives built a counter-establishment elite with think tanks and magazines dedicated to Conservative thought, there's that dirty word in 2008, thought. The past tense of think!
What had been a disdain for liberal intellectuals slipped into a disdain for the educated class as a whole. How did the Repubs manage to screw this up?
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LoanPro71
2676 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2008 : 8:02:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ML
R.I.P. William F. Buckley!
How did Conservatives go from good ole Bill Buckley, the intellectual Conservative you love to hate, but can't out-reason or out-argue; to Sarah Palin?
Conservatives built a counter-establishment elite with think tanks and magazines dedicated to Conservative thought, there's that dirty word in 2008, thought. The past tense of think!
What had been a disdain for liberal intellectuals slipped into a disdain for the educated class as a whole. How did the Repubs manage to screw this up?
Very simple.
They allowed the Evangelicals and the Neo-Cons to hijack the party. They forgot about the US Constitution. They forgot about fiscal conservatism.
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MisterVA
6570 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2008 : 8:08:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
quote:
Originally posted by kbaker
Note that in the video the McCain supporters responded with facts. Sure a few made flippant remarks walking into a rally while being accosted by Obama supporters. The video remarkably didn't ask ANY of the Obama supporters questions about why they support Obama and the facts they base their opinion.
Kurtis, I won't get into a back and forth about facts, if you think the guy is a terrorist, so be it. If you have an issue with a Muslim becoming our POTUS you have that right, but to say those in that video acted with a modicum of decorum is ridiculous. That was what my post was about.
What do you think drives people towards such behavior.
Many people possess little or no debating skills. If an argument that has a fact-based position is counter to the memorized talking points of the opponent, the opponent will almost always resort to ad hominem argument [that's namecalling for you non-debaters out there]. Civil discourse has become almost impossible and the model are these so-called panelist shows with opponents shouting one another down before the moderator can break in for a commericial. |
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assassin17
4155 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2008 : 11:24:10 PM
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| What is the problem that caused this post? I'm not sure what the specific complaint is about that video. |
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shelsee801
29 Posts |
Posted - 10/10/2008 : 11:41:03 PM
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| May be a dangerous election. Do you think we may have actual riots on election day. |
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MBohena
198 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 06:27:59 AM
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In my neck of the woods here in Chicago, if you support McCain, You better not put a sign on your front lawn, nor put a bumper sticker on your car. Increased reports of bricks through windwos of home touting Mccain and slashed tires on cars with vote McCain bumper stickers.
Riots, yes rumor has it, Chi town finest prepared for riots when Obama loses.
Welcome to Chicago |
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lunarhamster
4001 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 06:37:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by MBohena
In my neck of the woods here in Chicago, if you support McCain, You better not put a sign on your front lawn, nor put a bumper sticker on your car. Increased reports of bricks through windwos of home touting Mccain and slashed tires on cars with vote McCain bumper stickers.
Riots, yes rumor has it, Chi town finest prepared for riots when Obama loses.
Welcome to Chicago
Not surprising, very sad. |
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stewpot
442 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 06:52:58 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
How do everyday Americans get to the point where logic, critical thought, and tolerance for an opposing view get thrown out the window? How does an adult allow emotions drive actions?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=itEucdhf4Us
This isn't an indictment of McCain/Palin or Conservatives as I am sure there are plenty of examples where Obama supporters act in the same manner, rather I really want someone who knows a person like those in the video above to answer the following. Are they normally well adjusted people? Have they ever demonstrated a modicum of decorum? I can't imagine they haven't.
Where is the protest at the Obama rally? You wont see one, without police protection they would be beaten for sure. The video wasnt that disturbing to me as most people in this country know very little about their own candidate, much less the opponet. |
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MisterVA
6570 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 06:58:07 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by LoanPro71
quote:
Originally posted by ML
R.I.P. William F. Buckley!
How did Conservatives go from good ole Bill Buckley, the intellectual Conservative you love to hate, but can't out-reason or out-argue; to Sarah Palin?
Conservatives built a counter-establishment elite with think tanks and magazines dedicated to Conservative thought, there's that dirty word in 2008, thought. The past tense of think!
What had been a disdain for liberal intellectuals slipped into a disdain for the educated class as a whole. How did the Repubs manage to screw this up?
Very simple.
They allowed the Evangelicals and the Neo-Cons to hijack the party. They forgot about the US Constitution. They forgot about fiscal conservatism.
The other major party has been hijacked as well. ALthough I disagree with your grouping of the alleged hijackers for the GOP. |
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 07:09:44 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ML
R.I.P. William F. Buckley!
How did Conservatives go from good ole Bill Buckley, the intellectual Conservative you love to hate, but can't out-reason or out-argue; to Sarah Palin?
Conservatives built a counter-establishment elite with think tanks and magazines dedicated to Conservative thought, there's that dirty word in 2008, thought. The past tense of think!
What had been a disdain for liberal intellectuals slipped into a disdain for the educated class as a whole. How did the Repubs manage to screw this up?
Buckley? Forgot about him, he was an enjoyable read.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2008-10-10/the-conservative-case-for-obama
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 07:10:31 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by MisterVA
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
quote:
Originally posted by kbaker
Note that in the video the McCain supporters responded with facts. Sure a few made flippant remarks walking into a rally while being accosted by Obama supporters. The video remarkably didn't ask ANY of the Obama supporters questions about why they support Obama and the facts they base their opinion.
Kurtis, I won't get into a back and forth about facts, if you think the guy is a terrorist, so be it. If you have an issue with a Muslim becoming our POTUS you have that right, but to say those in that video acted with a modicum of decorum is ridiculous. That was what my post was about.
What do you think drives people towards such behavior.
Many people possess little or no debating skills. If an argument that has a fact-based position is counter to the memorized talking points of the opponent, the opponent will almost always resort to ad hominem argument [that's namecalling for you non-debaters out there]. Civil discourse has become almost impossible and the model are these so-called panelist shows with opponents shouting one another down before the moderator can break in for a commericial.
I agree. |
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 07:16:11 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by assassin17
What is the problem that caused this post? I'm not sure what the specific complaint is about that video.
I wasn't complaining rather trying to initiate a conversation based on my observations. Look a bit closer and listen that much closer and you will find men the same age as my grandfather calling someone a ******, others going to a conservative rally to provoke, calling Obama a terrorist, suggesting Palin made women buy their own rape kits..... etc.
While none of this is new, I find it both saddening and interesting that everyday Americans behave this way. |
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 07:19:22 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by stewpot
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
How do everyday Americans get to the point where logic, critical thought, and tolerance for an opposing view get thrown out the window? How does an adult allow emotions drive actions?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=itEucdhf4Us
This isn't an indictment of McCain/Palin or Conservatives as I am sure there are plenty of examples where Obama supporters act in the same manner, rather I really want someone who knows a person like those in the video above to answer the following. Are they normally well adjusted people? Have they ever demonstrated a modicum of decorum? I can't imagine they haven't.
Where is the protest at the Obama rally? You wont see one, without police protection they would be beaten for sure. The video wasnt that disturbing to me as most people in this country know very little about their own candidate, much less the opponet.
Where is the protest at the Obama rally? I have no clue, and have yet to find such a video. I'm not surprised by the ignorance, rather the behavior. It would be nice to see people control their emotions better. |
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CoolMtgGuy
3661 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 07:49:50 AM
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No mystery. Watch it happening here before your eyes.
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
How do everyday Americans get to the point where logic, critical thought, and tolerance for an opposing view get thrown out the window? How does an adult allow emotions drive actions?
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=itEucdhf4Us
This isn't an indictment of McCain/Palin or Conservatives as I am sure there are plenty of examples where Obama supporters act in the same manner, rather I really want someone who knows a person like those in the video above to answer the following. Are they normally well adjusted people? Have they ever demonstrated a modicum of decorum? I can't imagine they haven't.
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 07:50:29 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by MBohena
In my neck of the woods here in Chicago, if you support McCain, You better not put a sign on your front lawn, nor put a bumper sticker on your car. Increased reports of bricks through windwos of home touting Mccain and slashed tires on cars with vote McCain bumper stickers.
Riots, yes rumor has it, Chi town finest prepared for riots when Obama loses.
Welcome to Chicago
While I'm not surprised, how rampant are the acts of violence? While I would not be surprised to see a riot or two, I highly doubt it. |
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RGK2394
1213 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 10:32:28 AM
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Well gosh Mykal, I'm sure if we set up a camera outside of an Obama rally we'd see only educated, professional supporters with respect for the opposition's viewpoint voicing how we can respectfully disagree..........
NOT!!!
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 10:37:18 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by RGK2394
Well gosh Mykal, I'm sure if we set up a camera outside of an Obama rally we'd see only educated, professional supporters with respect for the opposition's viewpoint voicing how we can respectfully disagree..........
NOT!!!
You and a few others keep trying to make this an Obama supporters versus McCain supporters discussion. How you overlooked the following quote in my initial post is beyond me: "This isn't an indictment of McCain/Palin or Conservatives as I am sure there are plenty of examples where Obama supporters act in the same manner".
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RGK2394
1213 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 10:43:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
quote:
Originally posted by RGK2394
Well gosh Mykal, I'm sure if we set up a camera outside of an Obama rally we'd see only educated, professional supporters with respect for the opposition's viewpoint voicing how we can respectfully disagree..........
NOT!!!
You and a few others keep trying to make this an Obama supporters versus McCain supporters discussion. How you overlooked the following quote in my initial post is beyond me: "This isn't an indictment of McCain/Palin or Conservatives as I am sure there are plenty of examples where Obama supporters act in the same manner".
Then if you truly feel that way, post more than one video. And please don't tell me you can't find one..... |
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 10:46:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by RGK2394
quote:
Originally posted by mykal5
quote:
Originally posted by RGK2394
Well gosh Mykal, I'm sure if we set up a camera outside of an Obama rally we'd see only educated, professional supporters with respect for the opposition's viewpoint voicing how we can respectfully disagree..........
NOT!!!
You and a few others keep trying to make this an Obama supporters versus McCain supporters discussion. How you overlooked the following quote in my initial post is beyond me: "This isn't an indictment of McCain/Palin or Conservatives as I am sure there are plenty of examples where Obama supporters act in the same manner".
Then if you truly feel that way, post more than one video. And please don't tell me you can't find one.....
I wish I could have found one, I tried. Why does it need to be posted if we all, myself included, are aware it happens on both sides? And moreover how is it germane to the discussion which is not about one side or the other, rather people in general? |
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RGK2394
1213 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 10:52:34 AM
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lol...here's a good one, courtesy of Mr. Howard Stern.
Goes to show both sides of supporters aren't qualified enough to vote!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5p3OB6roAg
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lunarhamster
4001 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 12:52:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RGK2394
lol...here's a good one, courtesy of Mr. Howard Stern.
Goes to show both sides of supporters aren't qualified enough to vote!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b5p3OB6roAg
That is amazing, but not surprising. |
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cspatmon
2092 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 1:57:01 PM
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| Aren't qualified to vote......what's your qualification rickjames, "Holier Than Thou....LMAO! People, erratically and passionately, give in to their fears compounded with their beliefs....to be their truth...and will careless if either have any merit. |
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assassin17
4155 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 2:05:20 PM
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You are wondering how we got to the point where 2 groups of people with completely different philosophies begin to yell at each other? We have been at that point since creation. Hate and fear are basic animal instincts. When you perceive something as strange and think it will harm you, you are going to growl and fight.
The words used are just a substitute for growling. The fighting will come soon enough. I'm 99% sure that some voter is going to be killed during this election process. America has reached that point.
I'm also 75% certain that Obama will not live out a 4-year term, because America has been at that point since it's inception. Whenever we have had a President who relied upon the "hope" that an angry public will peaceably switch to his unpopular views, he has been killed.
Quite frankly, in this situation public arguing is probably justified and expected, as Obama is the most dangerously unknown candidate I have ever seen run for President and danger is worth arguing against. The problem is that he is ignoring perfectly-valid questions put forth to him, while letting his supporters build a blockade he hides behind and deflect attention back to the opponent. Pointing out McCain's shortcomings does NOT answer any questions about Obama. It's a transparent sideshow. His opponents aren't being fooled.
I guess that being an Obama supporter has not made you realize the intense suspicion of him. He is an unknown commodity and there is a tremendous fear of placing him in charge. I myself feel that he is absolutely too big of a risk at this moment, as do other conservatives, and I am completely astounded that anyone would even consider the possibility of voting for him at this point in time. There is not one thing in his background that suggests he can protect this country during a time when most of the planet views us as an enemy that must be removed. He hasn't governed anything to show us how he would attempt to govern. We barely know this man.
You have to remember, "conservatives" by definition do not like risk, so nothing you or any other Obama supporter can say is ever going to change our minds on him this year. We simply do NOT have enough information on him to give him the job of protecting our survival, which is much more important than protecting money.
One minor liberal decision by Mr. Community Activist and we are through. For instance, just the tiny decision to stop checking foreigners entering and living in this country, under the guise of stopping "racist profiling" and Americans are going to die in large numbers.
This is not the time for someone as liberal and passivist as Barack Obama to be in charge of anyone's survival. There are legitimate questions about him that have not been answered, merely laughed at and shrugged off. He is not a Messiah, he is a false idol. His "open arms" passive attitude of "Hope" is going to have us hugging enemies that are trying to stab a knife right in our back. The man does not acknowledge danger, which makes him just as dangerous as the danger.
I, for one, do not want to rely upon the weak tactic of "Hope" to "change" the world's attitude about us. "Action" is required when confronted with danger and liberal passivists, by their nature, do not act. The economy is a temporary distraction, but the world still hates us and his desire to hug mortal enemies will do nothing but prove that we are a weak psuedo-power under his guidance.
People have this image of him as the new Jesus, striving for a passive solution to salvation. They appear to be forgetting that Jesus was promptly murdered by the enemy. |
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lunarhamster
4001 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 3:25:46 PM
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| Brilliant post. |
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 3:52:23 PM
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You are wondering how we got to the point where 2 groups of people with completely different philosophies begin to yell at each other? We have been at that point since creation. Hate and fear are basic animal instincts. When you perceive something as strange and think it will harm you, you are going to growl and fight.
Great post. I'm not wondering how we got to the point where two groups are yelling, I was more concerned with "what" people were yelling. I understand the passion, what I'm more bothered with is lack of facts and pejoratives.
The words used are just a substitute for growling. The fighting will come soon enough. I'm 99% sure that some voter is going to be killed during this election process. America has reached that point.
I wouldn't be surprised, in fact I beleive it may have happened already.
I'm also 75% certain that Obama will not live out a 4-year term, because America has been at that point since it's inception. Whenever we have had a President who relied upon the "hope" that an angry public will peaceably switch to his unpopular views, he has been killed.
I am sure if elected he will complete a term. The risk to his life is of very little concern to me. I don't what you mean by "hope".
Quite frankly, in this situation public arguing is probably justified and expected, as Obama is the most dangerously unknown candidate I have ever seen run for President and danger is worth arguing against. The problem is that he is ignoring perfectly-valid questions put forth to him, while letting his supporters build a blockade he hides behind and deflect attention back to the opponent. Pointing out McCain's shortcomings does NOT answer any questions about Obama. It's a transparent sideshow. His opponents aren't being fooled.
I disagree but let's leave it at that.
I guess that being an Obama supporter has not made you realize the intense suspicion of him. He is an unknown commodity and there is a tremendous fear of placing him in charge. I myself feel that he is absolutely too big of a risk at this moment, as do other conservatives, and I am completely astounded that anyone would even consider the possibility of voting for him at this point in time. There is not one thing in his background that suggests he can protect this country during a time when most of the planet views us as an enemy that must be removed. He hasn't governed anything to show us how he would attempt to govern. We barely know this man.
I'm quite aware of the suspicion and believe many of them are quite valid, others are devoid of logic. The rest, I can't argue with, as I would rather Obama have spent a little more time gaining additional experience.
You have to remember, "conservatives" by definition do not like risk, so nothing you or any other Obama supporter can say is ever going to change our minds on him this year. We simply do NOT have enough information on him to give him the job of protecting our survival, which is much more important than protecting money.
I don't try to change minds. Never have, and truth be told, he is a Democrat so the Conservative need to obtain more information about his is irrelevant as he will preside from the Democratic party platform.
One minor liberal decision by Mr. Community Activist and we are through. For instance, just the tiny decision to stop checking foreigners entering and living in this country, under the guise of stopping "racist profiling" and Americans are going to die in large numbers.
The Executive branch does not retain the power to stop checking foreigners entering our country.
This is not the time for someone as liberal and passivist as Barack Obama to be in charge of anyone's survival. There are legitimate questions about him that have not been answered, merely laughed at and shrugged off. He is not a Messiah, he is a false idol. His "open arms" passive attitude of "Hope" is going to have us hugging enemies that are trying to stab a knife right in our back. The man does not acknowledge danger, which makes him just as dangerous as the danger.
I, for one, do not want to rely upon the weak tactic of "Hope" to "change" the world's attitude about us. "Action" is required when confronted with danger and liberal passivists, by their nature, do not act. The economy is a temporary distraction, but the world still hates us and his desire to hug mortal enemies will do nothing but prove that we are a weak psuedo-power under his guidance.
You're being flippant here, as surely you can't believe he intends to hug anyone.
People have this image of him as the new Jesus, striving for a passive solution to salvation. They appear to be forgetting that Jesus was promptly murdered by the enemy.
Great post, this is what I can civil discourse. |
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assassin17
4155 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 4:15:29 PM
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I'm not attempting to change your mind, I'm just pointing out what the Conservative side is thinking. Obviously, it is quite different from the liberal side and thus you have the exact reason for conflict.
This is what also bothers us;
"he is a Democrat so the Conservative need to obtain more information about him is irrelevant as he will preside from the Democratic party platform."
If I owned a shotgun, I would have just cocked it in anger and shot the first Democrat I saw.
Right there you have called the needs of Conservatives "irrelevant". This is the exact Bill Maher-esque attitude that causes intensive hatred of liberals. It is arrogant to say the least, inflammatory at best, to tell half of this country that they are irrelevant passengers whose safety is of no concern just because you are driving the car.
If that's the attitude, then stop and let me out. Better yet, give me the wheel before you kill everyone in sight.
The best solution is to not let you Democrats have the keys in the first place. you have been, and always will be, reckless drivers, drunken when given any power. |
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 4:21:25 PM
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You misunderstand. I am not suggesting Conservative's needs are irrelevant what I am suggesting is no matter how much they know of Obama, they won't be voting for him due to his platform. In that context the more they know about him changes nothing other than maybe their comfort with him occupying the White House.
I would think you know me better than that. Guess not. |
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assassin17
4155 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 4:22:01 PM
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That is NOT what you said.
Regardless of his platform, we have every right to know about him since his platform includes governing control over our lives. If he wishes to preside over a completely-Democratic constituency, be my guest. Let him go find it elsewhere. Why should 100 million people have to flee this country because of one man who will treat us as irrelevant because we wouldn't vote for him? |
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 4:26:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by assassin17
That is NOT what you said.
Regardless of his platform, we have every right to know about him since his platform includes governing control over our lives. If he wishes to preside over a completely-Democratic country, be my guest. Let him go find it elsewhere. Why should 100 million people have to flee this country because of one man who will treat us as irrelevant because we wouldn't vote for him?
Here is what I said -
"I don't try to change minds. Never have, and truth be told, he is a Democrat so the Conservative need to obtain more information about his is irrelevant as he will preside from the Democratic party platform."
Now how is that different from this -
"I am not suggesting Conservative's needs are irrelevant what I am suggesting is no matter how much they know of Obama, they won't be voting for him due to his platform. In that context the more they know about him changes nothing other than maybe their comfort with him occupying the White House."
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assassin17
4155 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 4:34:23 PM
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QUOTE A) "the Conservative need to obtain more information about his (sic) is irrelevant"
QUOTE B) "I am not suggesting Conservative's needs are irrelevant"
------------------
You don't see any difference between those two portions? I do. |
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mykal5
2764 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 4:40:07 PM
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How do you extrapolate one sentence from an entire paragraph? When you do that context no longer matters. Never mind that, you have never seen me demonstrate the type of attitude you accuse me of.
How about the benefit of the doubt? |
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assassin17
4155 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 4:42:05 PM
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And no, I don't literally think he is going to "hug" everyone. He calls it "reaching out without pre-conditions".
Yeah, that'll work. Let's just talk to a rattlesnake and maybe it won't bite. |
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CoolMtgGuy
3661 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 4:54:18 PM
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Wow ... I so want to espect your views but some of the things you say are not in the best interest of the majority ... and we live in a majority-rule society. You will obviously not respect majority rule but will instead advocate violence against a POTUS elected by the majority of voters. Sir, that scares me more than Obama. However, I suspect that you will learn to live with the will of the people via their votes. You'll have 4 years to come to your senses.
quote:
Originally posted by assassin17
You are wondering how we got to the point where 2 groups of people with completely different philosophies begin to yell at each other? We have been at that point since creation. Hate and fear are basic animal instincts. When you perceive something as strange and think it will harm you, you are going to growl and fight.
The words used are just a substitute for growling. The fighting will come soon enough. I'm 99% sure that some voter is going to be killed during this election process. America has reached that point.
I'm also 75% certain that Obama will not live out a 4-year term, because America has been at that point since it's inception. Whenever we have had a President who relied upon the "hope" that an angry public will peaceably switch to his unpopular views, he has been killed.
Quite frankly, in this situation public arguing is probably justified and expected, as Obama is the most dangerously unknown candidate I have ever seen run for President and danger is worth arguing against. The problem is that he is ignoring perfectly-valid questions put forth to him, while letting his supporters build a blockade he hides behind and deflect attention back to the opponent. Pointing out McCain's shortcomings does NOT answer any questions about Obama. It's a transparent sideshow. His opponents aren't being fooled.
I guess that being an Obama supporter has not made you realize the intense suspicion of him. He is an unknown commodity and there is a tremendous fear of placing him in charge. I myself feel that he is absolutely too big of a risk at this moment, as do other conservatives, and I am completely astounded that anyone would even consider the possibility of voting for him at this point in time. There is not one thing in his background that suggests he can protect this country during a time when most of the planet views us as an enemy that must be removed. He hasn't governed anything to show us how he would attempt to govern. We barely know this man.
You have to remember, "conservatives" by definition do not like risk, so nothing you or any other Obama supporter can say is ever going to change our minds on him this year. We simply do NOT have enough information on him to give him the job of protecting our survival, which is much more important than protecting money.
One minor liberal decision by Mr. Community Activist and we are through. For instance, just the tiny decision to stop checking foreigners entering and living in this country, under the guise of stopping "racist profiling" and Americans are going to die in large numbers.
This is not the time for someone as liberal and passivist as Barack Obama to be in charge of anyone's survival. There are legitimate questions about him that have not been answered, merely laughed at and shrugged off. He is not a Messiah, he is a false idol. His "open arms" passive attitude of "Hope" is going to have us hugging enemies that are trying to stab a knife right in our back. The man does not acknowledge danger, which makes him just as dangerous as the danger.
I, for one, do not want to rely upon the weak tactic of "Hope" to "change" the world's attitude about us. "Action" is required when confronted with danger and liberal passivists, by their nature, do not act. The economy is a temporary distraction, but the world still hates us and his desire to hug mortal enemies will do nothing but prove that we are a weak psuedo-power under his guidance.
People have this image of him as the new Jesus, striving for a passive solution to salvation. They appear to be forgetting that Jesus was promptly murdered by the enemy.
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assassin17
4155 Posts |
Posted - 10/11/2008 : 5:00:44 PM
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Mykal, with all due respect, there is nothing in that first paragraph that mentions anything about "voting". It addresses and dismisses "needs" of certain people.
You can't add the "voter" aspect to it after-the-fact and then claim my response is invalid. We weren't discussing 'converting' voters, you made it quite clear earlier that wasn't what you wanted | | | |
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