| Author |
Previous Topic | Next Topic |
|
missymgm
20 Posts |
 Posted - 09/04/2008 : 7:31:40 PM
|
I heard recently about an inhouse loan originator at a real estate company who was promoting that for those realtors that had 5 closings within the quarter that they were entered into a drawing and one person would be drawn for an all expense paid vacation. Is this not a RESPA violation?
Seems like it's a kick back....or is it because it wasn't a direct, you give me a loan and I'll give you whatever. Just seemed wrong and wondered how they were getting away with that. What do some others think? |
|
KHufford
5940 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2008 : 7:42:11 PM
|
Who cares...do what you gotta do. Seems like a good idea to me.
|
|
|
TransNet
519 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2008 : 7:43:31 PM
|
It doesn't matter too much what I think, but this is what HUD thinks:
"Can a lender set up a contest for real estate agents under which the agent who provides the lender with the most business will win a trip to Hawaii?"
"No. Under RESPA, the trip itself, and even the opportunity to win the trip, would be a thing of value given in exchange for the referral of business."
http://www.hud.gov/offices/hsg/sfh/res/resindus.cfm
Here's what you can do about it:
"How should I report a violation of RESPA?"
"You should send a written complaint describing the practice that you believe violates RESPA. The complaint should include the names, addresses and phone numbers of the alleged violators. It is preferred that you include your name and phone number in case an investigator wishes to ask further questions. You may request confidentiality. Send the complaint to:"
U.S. Department of HUD
Office of RESPA and Interstate Land Sales
451 7th Street, SW, Room 9154
Washington, DC 20410
"You may also wish to send a complaint to State and other Federal agencies that have the responsibility for regulating the settlement providers engaged in the referenced practice." |
|
|
williamspeaking
4058 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2008 : 8:00:16 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by KHufford
Who cares...do what you gotta do. Seems like a good idea to me.
x2 |
|
|
CoralSnake
10822 Posts |
Posted - 09/04/2008 : 8:01:11 PM
|
-1
dont do drugs |
|
|
austinmp
305 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2008 : 02:09:29 AM
|
| +3.14159 |
|
|
Mandyvilla
3405 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2008 : 04:19:42 AM
|
If it's an ABA, JV, or any other letter combo, the line is muddied. Do you know for a fact it's the lender that is doing the drawing? Could it possibly be the real estate company sponsoring the drawing? Once you have the Alliance, it's very hard to connect dots back to the lender for the violation.
I am disappointed our recent "sweeping" legislation did nothing that addressed steering, particularly to the preferred lender, or the builder's lender for full closing costs. |
|
|
Coffee Is 4 Clos
1635 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2008 : 04:50:43 AM
|
I work with a real estate company and they are the fricken respa police. Its actually refreshing to have see a company that actually obeys the laws of the land but sometimes it can get out of hand. A LO once had an appreciation contest where the Agent that referred him the most opportunities (not loans- but application opps) got the preferred parking spot in the lot. Corporate found out and said that it was a respa violation since it was something of value! LOL. So, he jokingly advised that he would park the car for the agent every day - also, he as told it was a respa violation.
It sometimes goes overboard- but when I see other companies (especially bank lo's) use their budgets for open bar cocktail parties and sending lunches to open houses it ticks me off when they just don't give a crap. |
|
|
U812
384 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2008 : 06:22:48 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by missymgm
I heard recently about an inhouse loan originator at a real estate company who was promoting that for those realtors that had 5 closings within the quarter that they were entered into a drawing and one person would be drawn for an all expense paid vacation. Is this not a RESPA violation?
Seems like it's a kick back....or is it because it wasn't a direct, you give me a loan and I'll give you whatever. Just seemed wrong and wondered how they were getting away with that. What do some others think?
Was He/She stipulating that the Loans/Closing had to be with him? |
|
|
mortgagemessiah
8003 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2008 : 06:26:24 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by U812
quote:
Originally posted by missymgm
I heard recently about an inhouse loan originator at a real estate company who was promoting that for those realtors that had 5 closings within the quarter that they were entered into a drawing and one person would be drawn for an all expense paid vacation. Is this not a RESPA violation?
Seems like it's a kick back....or is it because it wasn't a direct, you give me a loan and I'll give you whatever. Just seemed wrong and wondered how they were getting away with that. What do some others think?
Was He/She stipulating that the Loans/Closing had to be with him?
It doesn't matter it's still a kickback |
|
|
Pat
624 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2008 : 06:47:03 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by KHufford
Who cares...do what you gotta do. Seems like a good idea to me.
Really? Which of these fall into "do what you gotta do"
-manufacturing paystubs, W-2s and VODs
-lowballing by offering 5% w/ no points for a 30 year fixed and then ambushing them at the closing with a 7% deal
-write the real estate agents a check directly for each referral
-"off the HUD" credits to the buyer
It's a slippery slope. |
|
|
KHufford
5940 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2008 : 06:48:45 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Pat
quote:
Originally posted by KHufford
Who cares...do what you gotta do. Seems like a good idea to me.
Really? Which of these fall into "do what you gotta do"
-manufacturing paystubs, W-2s and VODs
-lowballing by offering 5% w/ no points for a 30 year fixed and then ambushing them at the closing with a 7% deal
-write the real estate agents a check directly for each referral
-"off the HUD" credits to the buyer
It's a slippery slope.
All the above seem fine to me...make it happen.
|
|
|
Pat
624 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2008 : 07:45:10 AM
|
| I'm not falling for it... but I'm sure that will extend the thread with LOs asking if they should really do all that. |
|
|
Managing Prime
2801 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2008 : 07:49:41 AM
|
| It's a blatant violation of RESPA. There are other ways to "inspire" business without crossing the line. |
|
|
missymgm
20 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2008 : 08:07:34 AM
|
They close in the real estate company's name but it's definetly the lender that is doing the drawing.
quote:
Originally posted by Mandyvilla
If it's an ABA, JV, or any other letter combo, the line is muddied. Do you know for a fact it's the lender that is doing the drawing? Could it possibly be the real estate company sponsoring the drawing? Once you have the Alliance, it's very hard to connect dots back to the lender for the violation.
I am disappointed our recent "sweeping" legislation did nothing that addressed steering, particularly to the preferred lender, or the builder's lender for full closing costs.
|
|
|
missymgm
20 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2008 : 08:10:08 AM
|
Yes, they had to close with him.
quote:
Originally posted by U812
quote:
Originally posted by missymgm
I heard recently about an inhouse loan originator at a real estate company who was promoting that for those realtors that had 5 closings within the quarter that they were entered into a drawing and one person would be drawn for an all expense paid vacation. Is this not a RESPA violation?
Seems like it's a kick back....or is it because it wasn't a direct, you give me a loan and I'll give you whatever. Just seemed wrong and wondered how they were getting away with that. What do some others think?
Was He/She stipulating that the Loans/Closing had to be with him?
|
|
|
CoolMtgGuy
3663 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2008 : 08:14:48 AM
|
Great answer and yes, it depends on which side of the ABA/JV is funding this promotion.
quote:
Originally posted by Mandyvilla
If it's an ABA, JV, or any other letter combo, the line is muddied. Do you know for a fact it's the lender that is doing the drawing? Could it possibly be the real estate company sponsoring the drawing? Once you have the Alliance, it's very hard to connect dots back to the lender for the violation.
I am disappointed our recent "sweeping" legislation did nothing that addressed steering, particularly to the preferred lender, or the builder's lender for full closing costs.
|
|
|
CoolMtgGuy
3663 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2008 : 08:46:04 AM
|
Unless you have proof that ONLY AGENTS WHO CLOSED LOANS WITH INHOUSE MTG CO were eligible for the promotion, NO ONE HERE ON BO can say for sure that it is a RESPA violation. Do you have this proof or is this just your "hunch"?
quote:
Originally posted by missymgm
I heard recently about an inhouse loan originator at a real estate company who was promoting that for those realtors that had 5 closings within the quarter that they were entered into a drawing and one person would be drawn for an all expense paid vacation. Is this not a RESPA violation?
Seems like it's a kick back....or is it because it wasn't a direct, you give me a loan and I'll give you whatever. Just seemed wrong and wondered how they were getting away with that. What do some others think?
|
|
|
Pat
624 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2008 : 10:16:43 AM
|
I don't know if it's just a hunch. If I'm at the rodeo and I hear hoof beats behind me, I'm not thinking "that must be a zebra"
Let's come up with other logical reasons that an inside mortgage officer would pay to send someone from his real estate office on a expense paid vacation for closing a loan with a local bank.
I've seen these in writing that are exactly as described and are clear RESPA violations. I'm assuming that it's an inexperienced inside LO that's never had any compliance training anywhere. |
|
|
CoolMtgGuy
3663 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2008 : 10:49:56 AM
|
FYI ... I HAVE BEEN an inside LO and have OWNED a mortgage JV with a real estate company. So ... if you can't be bothered with trying to get to factual details, then maybe you should refrain from posting meaningless statements. A zebra? Isthat the best that you can do? Do you have any PERSONAL experience to share here?
I have paid for many perks for real estate agents. By your thinking, they must have all been illegal. How stupid.
quote:
Originally posted by Pat
I don't know if it's just a hunch. If I'm at the rodeo and I hear hoof beats behind me, I'm not thinking "that must be a zebra"
Let's come up with other logical reasons that an inside mortgage officer would pay to send someone from his real estate office on a expense paid vacation for closing a loan with a local bank.
I've seen these in writing that are exactly as described and are clear RESPA violations. I'm assuming that it's an inexperienced inside LO that's never had any compliance training anywhere.
|
|
|
kmikkola
794 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2008 : 11:07:32 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Coffee Is 4 Closers
I work with a real estate company and they are the fricken respa police. Its actually refreshing to have see a company that actually obeys the laws of the land but sometimes it can get out of hand. A LO once had an appreciation contest where the Agent that referred him the most opportunities (not loans- but application opps) got the preferred parking spot in the lot. Corporate found out and said that it was a respa violation since it was something of value! LOL. So, he jokingly advised that he would park the car for the agent every day - also, he as told it was a respa violation.
Using that as a standard, I guess you can't offer superior service as that would be a "thing of value". |
|
|
CoolMtgGuy
3663 Posts |
Posted - 09/05/2008 : 11:17:21 AM
|
I am also aware of an Atlanta-based LO (from his own lips) who would invite ONLY AGENTS WHO GAVE HIM A REFERRAL to a big, catered party at this house once a month. Folks, this guy was an employee of a huge, or formerly huge, well-known regional bank!! One would think that this bank would know about RESPA ... right? Gotta tell ya ... like sub-prime loans and opinions, it is plentiful!!
quote:
Originally posted by kmikkola
quote:
Originally posted by Coffee Is 4 Closers
I work with a real estate company and they are the fricken respa police. Its actually refreshing to have see a company that actually obeys the laws of the land but sometimes it can get out of hand. A LO once had an appreciation contest where the Agent that referred him the most opportunities (not loans- but application opps) got the preferred parking spot in the lot. Corporate found out and said that it was a respa violation since it was something of value! LOL. So, he jokingly advised that he would park the car for the agent every day - also, he as told it was a respa violation.
Using that as a standard, I guess you can't offer superior service as that would be a "thing of value".
|
|
|
Pat
624 Posts |
Posted - 09/06/2008 : 5:12:58 PM
|
Really coolmtgguy... the only fact we need to know about the original post is whether the agent had to close a loan with them to get an entry into his lottery. If they did have to close a loan with them, then it's a RESPA violation.
I assumed that it was an inexperienced LO to be kind, otherwise my experience tells me that they are either ignorant or crooked (which is worse than inexperienced to help connect the dots).
Just to step outside of the original question... if the LO did require the agent to close the loan with them, than they were likely running an illegal lottery as well... unless they had their state regulatory authority approve it.
Just to answer the next question, a "lottery" is something that provides a)prize (the trip) b)chance (the drawing) and c)consideration (exchange of something of value, usually cash but can be something like a referral that turns into commission).
... that's all from my experience. |
|
|
| |
Previous Topic | Next Topic |
|
Search for: 
