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RefiGuy112
274 Posts |
 Posted - 08/17/2008 : 12:44:28 PM
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I am pretty fuming because of the actions of a particular Realtor. I have a client who came to me because they are involved in their first time purchase and they had a feeling that something just wasn't right with this transaction. Their Realtor has recommended them to their in house financing and their in-house LO has provided them with a rate that exceeds the maximum rate on the purchase contract by .375 and after looking at the GFE provided to the buyer, it looks as though they are charging 2.25 up front and making a 2point YSP. The borrower did not feel comfortable with the fees and monthly payment and basically told his realtor that he was going to shop around for a better loan. Right when this happened his Realtor pretty much pressured him into signing the release of contingencies. Basically the Realtor made it seem like if the borrower did not sign the release of contingencies they would lose their deposit. This borrower is a first time home buyer and really got scared of losing their deposit therefore he signed the release of contingencies without understanding the full consequences. Now I'm not a real estate attorney however wouldn't this be a clear case of misrepresentation? I would assume the borrower would be entitled to their deposit back since their realtor has not looked out for their best interest and obviously is not performing their fiduciary responsibility to their client?
Your thoughts on this please!
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MaJa
146 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 1:10:47 PM
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One of my clients was in a similar situation. The client did release appraisal and inspection contingencies based on the realtors manipulation of them. But, thank God they cancelled the contract instead of releasing their financing continguencies aa week later. In my client's situation, both the buyer's agent and the listing agent were pressuring them to release all contingencies and threatening to keep the deposit (it took a letter from the buyer's lawyer to finally get the deposit back about a month after they cancelled).
I would suggest that your client have a lawyer write a strongly worded letter to the realtor's broker asap. Have your client document everything their realtor said to them asap so that they don't forget any details. It can be used in the letter showing that the realtor fraudulently advised them to remove contingencies so that they wouldn't lose their deposit when the exact opposite is true. |
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nationwide1156
27 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 1:12:08 PM
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| sounds like a typical realtor always thinking of number one |
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RefiGuy112
274 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 1:17:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by MaJa
One of my clients was in a similar situation. The client did release appraisal and inspection contingencies based on the realtors manipulation of them. But, thank God they cancelled the contract instead of releasing their financing continguencies aa week later. In my client's situation, both the buyer's agent and the listing agent were pressuring them to release all contingencies and threatening to keep the deposit (it took a letter from the buyer's lawyer to finally get the deposit back about a month after they cancelled).
I would suggest that your client have a lawyer write a strongly worded letter to the realtor's broker asap. Have your client document everything their realtor said to them asap so that they don't forget any details. It can be used in the letter showing that the realtor fraudulently advised them to remove contingencies so that they wouldn't lose their deposit when the exact opposite is true.
Thanks for your imput! |
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aaron1976
1274 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 1:23:02 PM
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| The seller would not be responsible for returning the deposit, but legally I would bet that due to the misrepresentations the realtor is on the hook for that deposit. First, I would report the realtor to the DRE, I would then report the broker to the BBB and DRE as well. I would have a real estate attorney draft a letter directly to the realtor demanding their Good Faith Deposit immediately. You may have to go through some legal maneuvering, but I would bet the realtor will find a way to get that deposit back knowing that he will be held liable. |
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rtrefflich
5276 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 1:28:25 PM
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If they had not signed the contingency release the buyer would get the deposit back, however since they were forced to sign the contingencies they will not get the EM back. This is the problem. I would get an attorney immediately to indicate misrepresentation on part of the agent and get the deposit back that way.
quote:
Originally posted by aaron1976
The seller would not be responsible for returning the deposit, but legally I would bet that due to the misrepresentations the realtor is on the hook for that deposit. First, I would report the realtor to the DRE, I would then report the broker to the BBB and DRE as well. I would have a real estate attorney draft a letter directly to the realtor demanding their Good Faith Deposit immediately. You may have to go through some legal maneuvering, but I would bet the realtor will find a way to get that deposit back knowing that he will be held liable.
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slants
5074 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 1:38:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by aaron1976
The seller would not be responsible for returning the deposit, but legally I would bet that due to the misrepresentations the realtor is on the hook for that deposit. First, I would report the realtor to the DRE, I would then report the broker to the BBB and DRE as well. I would have a real estate attorney draft a letter directly to the realtor demanding their Good Faith Deposit immediately. You may have to go through some legal maneuvering, but I would bet the realtor will find a way to get that deposit back knowing that he will be held liable.
This is true. The release of deposit is a dispute between the buyer and seller. Since the buyer released all contingencies, the seller does not have to return the deposit if they don't agree to do so. Unfortunately, the buyer's agent has little influence on a seller who he/she does not represent.
Recourse against the selling agent for misrepresentation to seek damages against him/her for lost deposit? Perhaps verify whether the agent is a member of the Association of Realtors and file a complaint if he/she is a member. The Assoc. of Realtors cannot award your buyer money judgments though. The buyer would have to file suit and win a judgment in court to hold the agent liable. May be able to go to small claims court if the $'s are < $7,500; otherwise, substantial legal fees will be incurred.
Can't you just get the buyer a better loan to close the deal? |
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RefiGuy112
274 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 1:47:27 PM
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Can't you just get the buyer a better loan to close the deal?
[/quote]
Well i'm working on getting the buyer a better loan however its damn near impossible to do it conventional at 95% and FHA is not taking it with a 57% DTI. I'm thinking they were doing something sketchy to get him qualified because they are claiming that they have this done via FHA using only the current YTD. on the borrower's pay stub however FHA requires 2yr history along with the current YTD to be averaged out. |
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slants
5074 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 1:52:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RefiGuy112
Can't you just get the buyer a better loan to close the deal?
quote:
Well i'm working on getting the buyer a better loan however its damn near impossible to do it conventional at 95% and FHA is not taking it with a 57% DTI. I'm thinking they were doing something sketchy to get him qualified because they are claiming that they have this done via FHA using only the current YTD. on the borrower's pay stub however FHA requires 2yr history along with the current YTD to be averaged out.
I think it would be in the buyer's interest to find a relative to qualify as non-occ co-borrower and close the deal because he will have an uphill battle getting his deposit back now.
It's despicable to see a buyer's hard earned money held hostage by an agent's greed. |
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aaron1976
1274 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 2:17:24 PM
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| You guys we are forgetting that the buyer was forced to sign the contract UNDER DURESS from his realtor. That realtor should be reported to the DRE. The buyer should make this claim, as legally any contract that is signed under these circumstances shouldbe null and void. |
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slants
5074 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 2:29:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by aaron1976
You guys we are forgetting that the buyer was forced to sign the contract UNDER DURESS from his realtor. That realtor should be reported to the DRE. The buyer should make this claim, as legally any contract that is signed under these circumstances shouldbe null and void.
Yes, should be, but the only way to come to that determination is to prove it and win a verdict in court. A client was recently referred to me who canceled an escrow in 2006 because his realtor's in-house lender ended up delivering an ARM program instead of the FRM he was promised. The realtor not only advised him to deposit earnest money, but also had him submit the balance of the down payment to escrow. The PA had a $100 daily penalty for failure to close. When I spoke with the guy about a month ago, he was still waiting for yet another court date to get his $60,000 back. 2 years later, the seller still refuses to release the funds and maintains that he should be entitled to keep 80% of the monies. He has to wait to sue the realtor for his losses after the disposition of this trial. Whatever award he does get, I'm sure the attorney will keep a huge chunk. No one wins in court but the attorney. |
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MaJa
146 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 6:00:40 PM
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I work with a realtor who leaves financing continguecies in place until the loan FUNDS. He has not had a problem with this. It seems to fly under the radar of all those less experienced/knowledgable realtors who are desparate for the deal to close. That's why they are forcing their clients into a corner in the first place. This same guy has helped me to understand some of the ins and outs of the CAR and PRDS contracts.
One really important issue is the "as is" contract. This means that the purchase is AS DISCLOSED on the sellers property disclosure. If something comes up in the inspections that the seller and agent knew about but did not disclose, then the buyer can go back and renegotiate the contract. Maybe your client can do that as well. They are playing dirty with the buyer, so maybe the buyer needs to get in there (or someone who can assist him) and start digging for a reason to invalidate the contract. You know, talk to the neighbors, do some research if building permits might be an issue, etc., whatever. Again, check this out with a real estate attorney.
It's getting ugly out there. People are really getting desparate. |
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peter
6827 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 6:25:19 PM
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I often tell my customers who are contracting directly
with realtors that the loan contingency and appraisal
contingy should last until escrow closes this is because
by signing off before escrow closes, the buyer is susceptible
to events beyond anyone's control, i.e. lender going out of
business or guideline changes to abort the previous preapproval,
and the lender's desk review appraisal that can cut the value
of the appraisal at the last minute such as one day before
docs ordering or even before funding. Also, there is a 4506T
issue that could abort the loan approval and this is pulled
prior to funding, especially of the purchase loan is a SIVA
loan or a W-2s/paystubs full doc loan but the 4506T disclosed
that borrower also owns a business alongside that writes off
the presumably qualified W-2s/paystubs income.
A lot of sellers still refuse to accept buyers' demands
that the loan and appraisal contingencies last as long as
the life of the purchase escrow, and most realtors are opposed
to it no matter how much I have explained to them the worst-
case scenario and that we must protect the buyer. The realtors
always are very optimistic once they have got the deal going,
and never seem to worry about the pitfalls ahead.
Peter |
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peter
6827 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 6:35:08 PM
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Maja wrote"
"It's getting ugly out there. People are really getting desparate."
You mean desperate. This is true these days and our office receptionist
often gets calls for realtors and loan officers from collection agencies
asking for the wheareabouts of such and such person. A month ago, a repo
man from a car dealer came to our parking lot and drove a Lexus away from
the aggreived realtor. Loan officers don't usually lease top model cars as
they don't have to drive customers around, but they get hounded for
overdue advertisng bills and credit report bills.
No wonder ethics and honesty are under the pressure to compromise.
Peter |
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johnnyboy38109
4580 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 6:44:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RefiGuy112
Can't you just get the buyer a better loan to close the deal?
Well i'm working on getting the buyer a better loan however its damn near impossible to do it conventional at 95% and FHA is not taking it with a 57% DTI. I'm thinking they were doing something sketchy to get him qualified because they are claiming that they have this done via FHA using only the current YTD. on the borrower's pay stub however FHA requires 2yr history along with the current YTD to be averaged out.
[/quote]
How are they charging 2.25 upfront FHA? |
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johnnyboy38109
4580 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 6:50:44 PM
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that bit about the YTDs and the 2y lookback isn't hard and fast, either........maybe you should re-examine your income calcs.
How far have you gotten with this deal yet, do you have findings yet, what is the status? |
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bestbet123
1690 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 6:57:18 PM
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John,
Are you serious?You can charge 1 point origination and up to 1.5% loan discount.I'm sure that if this loan has enough compensating factors it can close at any number of places....I'm suprised the moneystoreguy hasn't responded yet.
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyboy38109
quote:
Originally posted by RefiGuy112
Can't you just get the buyer a better loan to close the deal?
Well i'm working on getting the buyer a better loan however its damn near impossible to do it conventional at 95% and FHA is not taking it with a 57% DTI. I'm thinking they were doing something sketchy to get him qualified because they are claiming that they have this done via FHA using only the current YTD. on the borrower's pay stub however FHA requires 2yr history along with the current YTD to be averaged out.
How are they charging 2.25 upfront FHA?
[/quote] |
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johnnyboy38109
4580 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 7:05:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bestbet123
John,
Are you serious?You can charge 1 point origination and up to 1.5% loan discount.I'm sure that if this loan has enough compensating factors it can close at any number of places....I'm suprised the moneystoreguy hasn't responded yet.
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyboy38109
quote:
Originally posted by RefiGuy112
Can't you just get the buyer a better loan to close the deal?
Well i'm working on getting the buyer a better loan however its damn near impossible to do it conventional at 95% and FHA is not taking it with a 57% DTI. I'm thinking they were doing something sketchy to get him qualified because they are claiming that they have this done via FHA using only the current YTD. on the borrower's pay stub however FHA requires 2yr history along with the current YTD to be averaged out.
How are they charging 2.25 upfront FHA?
[/quote]
You charge 1 orig and 1.5 discount................interesting..........why do I have the idea that this "1.5 discount" you charge somehow never equates to a lower rate for the customer?
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bestbet123
1690 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 7:11:55 PM
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John,
Your response just confirmed what i thought about you since i started posting here,you are a pompous , know it all jack ass.I was merely trying to educate you,genius,that it is allowed.Not to say it's ethical or it's going to give the client a better rate.You posed the question and i answered it.I TOO have closed thousands since '88,I don't write books because i'm too busy selling your clients.You are too smart for your own good buddy.quote:
Originally posted by johnnyboy38109
quote:
Originally posted by bestbet123
John,
Are you serious?You can charge 1 point origination and up to 1.5% loan discount.I'm sure that if this loan has enough compensating factors it can close at any number of places....I'm suprised the moneystoreguy hasn't responded yet.
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyboy38109
quote:
Originally posted by RefiGuy112
Can't you just get the buyer a better loan to close the deal?
Well i'm working on getting the buyer a better loan however its damn near impossible to do it conventional at 95% and FHA is not taking it with a 57% DTI. I'm thinking they were doing something sketchy to get him qualified because they are claiming that they have this done via FHA using only the current YTD. on the borrower's pay stub however FHA requires 2yr history along with the current YTD to be averaged out.
How are they charging 2.25 upfront FHA?
You charge 1 orig and 1.5 discount................interesting..........why do I have the idea that this "1.5 discount" you charge somehow never equates to a lower rate for the customer?
[/quote] |
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johnnyboy38109
4580 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 7:19:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bestbet123
John,
Your response just confirmed what i thought about you since i started posting here,you are a pompous , know it all jack ass.I was merely trying to educate you,genius,that it is allowed.Not to say it's ethical or it's going to give the client a better rate.You posed the question and i answered it.I TOO have closed thousands since '88,I don't write books because i'm too busy selling your clients.You are too smart for your own good buddy.quote:
Originally posted by johnnyboy38109
quote:
Originally posted by bestbet123
John,
Are you serious?You can charge 1 point origination and up to 1.5% loan discount.I'm sure that if this loan has enough compensating factors it can close at any number of places....I'm suprised the moneystoreguy hasn't responded yet.
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyboy38109
quote:
Originally posted by RefiGuy112
Can't you just get the buyer a better loan to close the deal?
Well i'm working on getting the buyer a better loan however its damn near impossible to do it conventional at 95% and FHA is not taking it with a 57% DTI. I'm thinking they were doing something sketchy to get him qualified because they are claiming that they have this done via FHA using only the current YTD. on the borrower's pay stub however FHA requires 2yr history along with the current YTD to be averaged out.
How are they charging 2.25 upfront FHA?
You charge 1 orig and 1.5 discount................interesting..........why do I have the idea that this "1.5 discount" you charge somehow never equates to a lower rate for the customer?
[/quote]
From your agitated response, I'd suspect I am right..........that you are not yielding a lower rate to the consumer when you charge 1.5 disc, you're mis-representing the purpose of a discount point to your consumer as a method of gleaning more income, knowing full well FHA only allows 1pt front end orig.
Sir, I don't know it all, but I can guarantee you if I worked in PA for 20 years I wouldn't be clueless on where to find an appraiser in Lancaster County, PA.
You can further be assured I can spell "infinite" correctly, not as you do "infinate"........right after you insulted someone by saying rates were up and IQs are down... |
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bestbet123
1690 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 7:32:54 PM
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Ok johnnyboy,we can go all night of you want.It's Sunday and I have the time and i'm definately in the mood.I NEVER said that i would charge that,i was merely stating fact that you CAN charge that.I live on referrals.I NEVER overcharge my customer,that's why they send me their entire family for any mortgage financing needs.As far as being clueless about an appraiser in Lancaster county,I am not,i just needed a quick intelligent response from one of my fellow BO members.If you look at that thread you can see the moronic responses i got.Loosen up that red power tie and try boxers and let your balls hang out for a minute,it's very refreshing (trust me i know).You may have a great vocabulary and diction(you can correct my spelling and grammar later,Slants loves to do this to me as does Justin)but that doesn't give you the right to come off holier than thou every response you make,even the great johnnyboy can be wrong once in a while.....no?
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyboy38109
quote:
Originally posted by bestbet123
John,
Your response just confirmed what i thought about you since i started posting here,you are a pompous , know it all jack ass.I was merely trying to educate you,genius,that it is allowed.Not to say it's ethical or it's going to give the client a better rate.You posed the question and i answered it.I TOO have closed thousands since '88,I don't write books because i'm too busy selling your clients.You are too smart for your own good buddy.quote:
Originally posted by johnnyboy38109
quote:
Originally posted by bestbet123
John,
Are you serious?You can charge 1 point origination and up to 1.5% loan discount.I'm sure that if this loan has enough compensating factors it can close at any number of places....I'm suprised the moneystoreguy hasn't responded yet.
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyboy38109
quote:
Originally posted by RefiGuy112
Can't you just get the buyer a better loan to close the deal?
Well i'm working on getting the buyer a better loan however its damn near impossible to do it conventional at 95% and FHA is not taking it with a 57% DTI. I'm thinking they were doing something sketchy to get him qualified because they are claiming that they have this done via FHA using only the current YTD. on the borrower's pay stub however FHA requires 2yr history along with the current YTD to be averaged out.
How are they charging 2.25 upfront FHA?
You charge 1 orig and 1.5 discount................interesting..........why do I have the idea that this "1.5 discount" you charge somehow never equates to a lower rate for the customer?
From your agitated response, I'd suspect I am right..........that you are not yielding a lower rate to the consumer when you charge 1.5 disc, you're mis-representing the purpose of a discount point to your consumer as a method of gleaning more income, knowing full well FHA only allows 1pt front end orig.
Sir, I don't know it all, but I can guarantee you if I worked in PA for 20 years I wouldn't be clueless on where to find an appraiser in Lancaster County, PA.
You can further be assured I can spell "infinite" correctly, not as you do "infinate"........right after you insulted someone by saying rates were up and IQs are down...
[/quote] |
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slants
5074 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 7:48:50 PM
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Huh? Not me Alex, I would never do that to you  . |
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bestbet123
1690 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 7:58:20 PM
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LOL.....Hi Helen!
quote:
Originally posted by slants
Huh? Not me Alex, I would never do that to you .
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slants
5074 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 7:59:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bestbet123
LOL.....Hi Helen!
quote:
Originally posted by slants
Huh? Not me Alex, I would never do that to you .
Hello, how's your friend doing? |
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bestbet123
1690 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 8:15:37 PM
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Unfortunately not any better,the wounds on the outside are healing but I wonder if the inside is doing as well.He's still in a coma , they say they will try to wake him slowly so he doesn't do more damage.He was very combative at the scene then they lost him for a few and brought him back,then sedated him.Time will tell.
quote:
Originally posted by slants
quote:
Originally posted by bestbet123
LOL.....Hi Helen!
quote:
Originally posted by slants
Huh? Not me Alex, I would never do that to you .
Hello, how's your friend doing?
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slants
5074 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 8:19:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by bestbet123
Unfortunately not any better,the wounds on the outside are healing but I wonder if the inside is doing as well.He's still in a coma , they say they will try to wake him slowly so he doesn't do more damage.He was very combative at the scene then they lost him for a few and brought him back,then sedated him.Time will tell.
quote:
Originally posted by slants
quote:
Originally posted by bestbet123
LOL.....Hi Helen!
quote:
Originally posted by slants
Huh? Not me Alex, I would never do that to you .
Hello, how's your friend doing?
Sorry to hear that. Hopefully he is strong and will heal from it quickly. Things like this remind us how fleeting everything in life can be. |
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bestbet123
1690 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 8:24:59 PM
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Thank you Helen,
He is very strong and if anybody can overcome this , he can.I have faith,i'm just impatient and want him to wake up tomm. and say "yo,what's up bro".....Then we can get back to work and keep kickin butt in this beat up business.
quote:
Originally posted by slants
quote:
Originally posted by bestbet123
Unfortunately not any better,the wounds on the outside are healing but I wonder if the inside is doing as well.He's still in a coma , they say they will try to wake him slowly so he doesn't do more damage.He was very combative at the scene then they lost him for a few and brought him back,then sedated him.Time will tell.
quote:
Originally posted by slants
quote:
Originally posted by bestbet123
LOL.....Hi Helen!
quote:
Originally posted by slants
Huh? Not me Alex, I would never do that to you .
Hello, how's your friend doing?
Sorry to hear that. Hopefully he is strong and will heal from it quickly. Things like this remind us how fleeting everything in life can be.
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khoiey
3201 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 10:05:16 PM
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| A lot of realtors have no idea about laws and consequences of their pratices. |
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bestbet123
1690 Posts |
Posted - 08/17/2008 : 10:16:27 PM
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you aint kiddin.
quote:
Originally posted by khoiey
A lot of realtors have no idea about laws and consequences of their pratices.
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