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rcho
33 Posts |
 Posted - 08/06/2008 : 10:35:01 PM
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Could anybody tell me their opinion or advice on this situation.
I had ordered an appraisal which the borrower paid with a post dated check that has now been fully paid. The appraisal had been done. I got conditions saying 1. The appraiser must provide 2 comps in same condition, additional comps to support value with no large adjustments and 2. The appraisal required an interior inspection, provide interior photographs including kitchen, living area and bathroom. When I told the appraiser he had to meet these conditions he said he was going to charge another $375.00 to go back out there. He told me 3 pictures were there front, rear, street and that is all the appraisal guidelines require-however the lender requires any homes over 40 years old (this house is 42 years old) to have pictures of interior. And still he was charging an additional $375.00. We got a new appraiser which still cost $375.00 and this delayed my loan. Is this something I can file a complaint to the OREA? |
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ownerop
367 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2008 : 10:42:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by rcho
Could anybody tell me their opinion or advice on this situation.
I had ordered an appraisal which the borrower paid with a post dated check that has now been fully paid. The appraisal had been done. I got conditions saying 1. The appraiser must provide 2 comps in same condition, additional comps to support value with no large adjustments and 2. The appraisal required an interior inspection, provide interior photographs including kitchen, living area and bathroom. When I told the appraiser he had to meet these conditions he said he was going to charge another $375.00 to go back out there. He told me 3 pictures were there front, rear, street and that is all the appraisal guidelines require-however the lender requires any homes over 40 years old (this house is 42 years old) to have pictures of interior. And still he was charging an additional $375.00. We got a new appraiser which still cost $375.00 and this delayed my loan. Is this something I can file a complaint to the OREA?
I'm not an appraiser, but I don't think he is breaking any rules or laws. The best you can do is not use him again, any appraiser that doesn't take interior photos is not doing their job well and I would not use them again. If you really want to screw with him send him another order to a vacant house and then cancel after he has already made the trip. |
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rcho
33 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2008 : 10:55:37 PM
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| Ha! Good one, I think I might just do that! |
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slants
4256 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2008 : 11:37:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by rcho
Ha! Good one, I think I might just do that!
You're probably kidding, but if not just be careful he doesn't take you to small claims for the fee. |
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lgruey
573 Posts |
Posted - 08/06/2008 : 11:47:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by rcho
Could anybody tell me their opinion or advice on this situation.
I had ordered an appraisal which the borrower paid with a post dated check that has now been fully paid. The appraisal had been done. I got conditions saying 1. The appraiser must provide 2 comps in same condition, additional comps to support value with no large adjustments and 2. The appraisal required an interior inspection, provide interior photographs including kitchen, living area and bathroom. When I told the appraiser he had to meet these conditions he said he was going to charge another $375.00 to go back out there. He told me 3 pictures were there front, rear, street and that is all the appraisal guidelines require-however the lender requires any homes over 40 years old (this house is 42 years old) to have pictures of interior. And still he was charging an additional $375.00. We got a new appraiser which still cost $375.00 and this delayed my loan. Is this something I can file a complaint to the OREA?
I always take interior photos. It is a good idea to do it even if it isn't required. Most lenders are requiring them anyway now, and I think it gives them a better idea of what the home is like. I wouldn't charge $375 to go back out and take interior photos. I think that is excessive to go take interior photos.
About additional comps though.... I don't know the situation on the original appraisal, but many times appraisers get asked for additional comps or better comps as if we were keeping the best ones in our back pocket. When that happens though I just point out the explainations that are already in my report and the request for additional comps goes away. Like I said though I don't know what the report looks like and it may be that it doesn't look well supported and that is why they want additional comps and interior photos.
ownerop,
I know that you think your idea is funny, but how would you like it if someone did that to you? The best thing to do if you don't like the way someone works is to move on to someone else. Also, if you don't let the appraiser know ahead of time about additional requirements then they can't be expected to meet them. We aren't psychics. Like I said I personally would have taken interior photos at the time of inspection, but don't assume that everyone does. If you know that they will be required then let the appraiser know at the time you order the appraisal and then everyone is on the same page. |
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David Wimpelberg
82 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 04:59:51 AM
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One of the problems using a middleman in the appraisal process is that that appraiser often does not know what the lender requirements are. This applies not only to MBs, but AMCs, and other nonlending clients as well, such as persons getting a divorce order the appraisal rather than the attorney.
Any assignment conditions have to be spelled out at the time of engagement. The appraiser should not have to be responsible for additional work after the fact. Once the appraisal is handed in the assignment is complete. The appraiser has every right to charge for additional work.
Business sense comes into play. If there are questions about the report, and the appraiser can answer them from his desk for a few minutes, that's one thing. If the appraiser has to go out in the field, spend time and gas, and put aside other work, that is another.
FWIW, reports can be developed and reported in a fashion that effectively ends any additional work for the appraiser.
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vburek
507 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 05:55:08 AM
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| I would suggest that you post this appraisers name on this site so other LO's will know not to use him. I would also suggest that you contact this appraiser and ask him kindly to refund the fee he charged to your client and also let him know that you will be posting his information and this story. You are not making anything up and you can give advice to other LO's about what this apprasier did. Reading this makes me mad. Not all appraisers are like this and i am so glad i have a few great appraisers that i use all the time. A good appraiser that doesnt pull stunts like this to make more money is priceless. |
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David Wimpelberg
82 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 06:05:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by vburek
I would suggest that you post this appraisers name on this site so other LO's will know not to use him. I would also suggest that you contact this appraiser and ask him kindly to refund the fee he charged to your client and also let him know that you will be posting his information and this story. You are not making anything up and you can give advice to other LO's about what this apprasier did. Reading this makes me mad. Not all appraisers are like this and i am so glad i have a few great appraisers that i use all the time. A good appraiser that doesnt pull stunts like this to make more money is priceless.
They key to the argument is the engagement letter. Does it say the appraiser will provide free services regarding this assignment into eternity?
What other fee (not commission) based service industries provide followups for free?
Doctors?
Lawyers?
CPAs?
The guy who mows you lawn?
Why is there an expectation for appraisers to do so?
If the appraiser screwed up the error should be corrected. If conditions were not agreed to at the time of engagement, that is the client responsibility or fault, not the appraiser's. Additional services not agreed to should be charged for, since it is a new assignment. |
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vburek
507 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 06:27:10 AM
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| In my opinion, he didnt complete the job. did the bare minimum and OP said he took 3 pics and none of the inside. Why wouldnt he take a few moments, take a digital camera and take pics of the inside while there. All the appraisals i get have pics of the interior. This is a lazy appraiser looking to get extra money. I still say post his name and the companies name so other LO's know not to use this appraiser. And not all appraisers are lazy, i have great appraisers i use but this appraiser deserves to be out of business. |
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johnnyboy38109
2587 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 06:32:27 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by David Wimpelberg
quote:
Originally posted by vburek
I would suggest that you post this appraisers name on this site so other LO's will know not to use him. I would also suggest that you contact this appraiser and ask him kindly to refund the fee he charged to your client and also let him know that you will be posting his information and this story. You are not making anything up and you can give advice to other LO's about what this apprasier did. Reading this makes me mad. Not all appraisers are like this and i am so glad i have a few great appraisers that i use all the time. A good appraiser that doesnt pull stunts like this to make more money is priceless.
They key to the argument is the engagement letter. Does it say the appraiser will provide free services regarding this assignment into eternity?
What other fee (not commission) based service industries provide followups for free?
Doctors?
Lawyers?
CPAs?
The guy who mows you lawn?
Why is there an expectation for appraisers to do so?
If the appraiser screwed up the error should be corrected. If conditions were not agreed to at the time of engagement, that is the client responsibility or fault, not the appraiser's. Additional services not agreed to should be charged for, since it is a new assignment.
This response, of course, fits the classic definition of bad business.
Appraisers just love it when this stuff comes up, because it gives them a feeling of power. They enjoy people may lose out if he doesnt do whats asked, it elevates them, feeds machismo.
I've seen thousands of appraisals and I've had more than my share of deals where more comps were asked for. And I would submit that in many of those cases the new comps added might just have been witheld in the first place so as to try to gouge more fees out of requestors. New comps supplied of such quality it made me wonder why they werent used in the first place.
I'd say to the poster to list his appraiser here and I'd say to all of us lets avoid this poster. |
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CoolMtgGuy
2028 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 06:32:43 AM
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Sounds like the appraiser was too lazy. No interior photos? That is totally unacceptable. Post the appraiser name here, and pass the word out locally, so others can decide if they will ever use this appraiser in the future. Not much else you can do about this particular crumb of a person.
With that said, I continue to be amazed that originators are still acticng like it is business as usual these days. Can anyone really predict what the final lender requirements will be? Not even the lender reps can do that. I recommend that originators start to behave like the professionals they claim to be and advise the borrowers truthfully that there may be additional costs to meet unanticipated lender requirements. This appraiser did not deliver a complete appraisal report. However, even if he did, it would not be unreasonable to pay an appraiser for additional services needed to meet a particular lender's requirement(s). To expect free services from an appraiser, when no originator will subject themselve to delivering free services, is unreasonable.
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vburek
507 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 06:44:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy
Sounds like the appraiser was too lazy. No interior photos? That is totally unacceptable. Post the appraiser name here, and pass the word out locally, so others can decide if they will ever use this appraiser in the future. Not much else you can do about this particular crumb of a person.
With that said, I continue to be amazed that originators are still acticng like it is business as usual these days. Can anyone really predict what the final lender requirements will be? Not even the lender reps can do that. I recommend that originators start to behave like the professionals they claim to be and advise the borrowers truthfully that there may be additional costs to meet unanticipated lender requirements. This appraiser did not deliver a complete appraisal report. However, even if he did, it would not be unreasonable to pay an appraiser for additional services needed to meet a particular lender's requirement(s). To expect free services from an appraiser, when no originator will subject themselve to delivering free services, is unreasonable.
I disagree with the last line of your post. Have you ever talked to a client about rates and programs and they not move forward? Have you ever taken a loan app, ran credit then realized cant do a loan for this client? That is provideing a service free of charge isnt it? Or do you when someone calls tell them to pay you money up front for your advice? Or do you charge an application fee up front. If you are not doing either of those things, you are providing plenty of free services. All i expect from my appraisers is that when they do the appraisal it meets the lenders guidelines and conditons, if they want more pictures or different comps just do it. |
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CoolMtgGuy
2028 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 06:53:10 AM
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Your point is well taken ... but we disagree all the same. Hope that's ok with you because it is ok with me.
In my opinion, the comparison provided is invalid ... apples to oranges. If you do not recognize that, then maybe a little education is in order. No offence intended but comparing an appraisal order for a product that has very clearly defined guidelines and requirements that make it "complete" or "incomplete" to the expected services (aka marketing and selling) of an originator is invalid. Nuff said.
quote:
Originally posted by vburek
quote:
Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy
Sounds like the appraiser was too lazy. No interior photos? That is totally unacceptable. Post the appraiser name here, and pass the word out locally, so others can decide if they will ever use this appraiser in the future. Not much else you can do about this particular crumb of a person.
With that said, I continue to be amazed that originators are still acticng like it is business as usual these days. Can anyone really predict what the final lender requirements will be? Not even the lender reps can do that. I recommend that originators start to behave like the professionals they claim to be and advise the borrowers truthfully that there may be additional costs to meet unanticipated lender requirements. This appraiser did not deliver a complete appraisal report. However, even if he did, it would not be unreasonable to pay an appraiser for additional services needed to meet a particular lender's requirement(s). To expect free services from an appraiser, when no originator will subject themselve to delivering free services, is unreasonable.
I disagree with the last line of your post. Have you ever talked to a client about rates and programs and they not move forward? Have you ever taken a loan app, ran credit then realized cant do a loan for this client? That is provideing a service free of charge isnt it? Or do you when someone calls tell them to pay you money up front for your advice? Or do you charge an application fee up front. If you are not doing either of those things, you are providing plenty of free services. All i expect from my appraisers is that when they do the appraisal it meets the lenders guidelines and conditons, if they want more pictures or different comps just do it.
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vburek
507 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 06:58:45 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy
Your point is well taken ... but we disagree all the same. Hope that's ok with you because it is ok with me.
In my opinion, the comparison provided is invalid ... apples to oranges. If you do not recognize that, then maybe a little education is in order. No offence intended but comparing an appraisal order for a product that has very clearly defined guidelines and requirements that make it "complete" or "incomplete" to the expected services (aka marketing and selling) of an originator is invalid. Nuff said.
quote:
Originally posted by vburek
quote:
Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy
Sounds like the appraiser was too lazy. No interior photos? That is totally unacceptable. Post the appraiser name here, and pass the word out locally, so others can decide if they will ever use this appraiser in the future. Not much else you can do about this particular crumb of a person.
With that said, I continue to be amazed that originators are still acticng like it is business as usual these days. Can anyone really predict what the final lender requirements will be? Not even the lender reps can do that. I recommend that originators start to behave like the professionals they claim to be and advise the borrowers truthfully that there may be additional costs to meet unanticipated lender requirements. This appraiser did not deliver a complete appraisal report. However, even if he did, it would not be unreasonable to pay an appraiser for additional services needed to meet a particular lender's requirement(s). To expect free services from an appraiser, when no originator will subject themselve to delivering free services, is unreasonable.
I disagree with the last line of your post. Have you ever talked to a client about rates and programs and they not move forward? Have you ever taken a loan app, ran credit then realized cant do a loan for this client? That is provideing a service free of charge isnt it? Or do you when someone calls tell them to pay you money up front for your advice? Or do you charge an application fee up front. If you are not doing either of those things, you are providing plenty of free services. All i expect from my appraisers is that when they do the appraisal it meets the lenders guidelines and conditons, if they want more pictures or different comps just do it.
i do disagree with you all the same. the appraisal ordered has to meet the lenders guidelines which right now is a moving target. For an appraiser to want to charge a 2nd appraisal fee to drive out and take interior photos which he should have already taken is unacceptable and in my opinion does not constitue a complete job done. I also some what disagree with the little education part, sounds like to me you need a lot of education on completing a job. No offence intended. |
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racerx
11094 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 06:59:00 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by David Wimpelberg
What other fee (not commission) based service industries provide followups for free?
Doctors?
Lawyers?
CPAs?
The guy who mows you lawn?
Doctors
When my kids have an ear infection, I am not charged for the follow-up visit to make sure the infection has cleared.
Vets
My dog had an ulcer on his eye. The vet didn't charge me for the follow-up visit to make sure it had cleared. About a month ago my dog collapsed outside, became paralyzed, and roasted in the sun for some time until I found him. What did the vet charge me for the emergency visit? Nothing.
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lunarhamster
3138 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 07:06:33 AM
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The sad part about this story is that the Appraiser didn't even complete his job the first time he was there.
Just like Lisa said, she always takes interior photos, even if they are not included in the report, even for her own records, chances are the Lender will come back and ask for them, that is what a "good" Appraiser would do.
I have had several request's for additional comps, it's almost expected anymore, I wish Lenders would just change their guidelines to say " please provide 2 million comps to support value" then we can inform the Appraiser beforehand.
I also agree with Lisa that it's funny when they ask for add comps, ok.. did you think we just left the best ones out?? sometime Appraisers have to go pretty far out to even find any. I have NEVER been charged for this, it's just part of the deal, I usually get a grumble or two, a couple of comments about what retards some of these Lenders are, and then about 3 hours later I have them.
I have at times given him an extra $50 out of my pocket, he never takes it, several checks I have mailed that have never been cashed.
I think what we should do from now on, is ask for 6-7 comps right up front, it just saves time. But $375 to get additional comps, bad business, bad Appraiser. |
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lunarhamster
3138 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 07:11:07 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by racerx
quote:
Originally posted by David Wimpelberg
What other fee (not commission) based service industries provide followups for free?
Doctors?
Lawyers?
CPAs?
The guy who mows you lawn?
Doctors
When my kids have an ear infection, I am not charged for the follow-up visit to make sure the infection has cleared.
Vets
My dog had an ulcer on his eye. The vet didn't charge me for the follow-up visit to make sure it had cleared. About a month ago my dog collapsed outside, became paralyzed, and roasted in the sun for some time until I found him. What did the vet charge me for the emergency visit? Nothing.
Was your Dog ok? |
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vburek
507 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 07:12:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lunarhamster
The sad part about this story is that the Appraiser didn't even complete his job the first time he was there.
Just like Lisa said, she always takes interior photos, even if they are not included in the report, even for her own records, chances are the Lender will come back and ask for them, that is what a "good" Appraiser would do.
I have had several request's for additional comps, it's almost expected anymore, I wish Lenders would just change their guidlines to say " please provide 2 million comps to support value" then we can inform the Appraiser beforehand.
I also agree with Lisa that it's funny when they ask for add comps, ok.. did you think we just left the best ones out?? sometime Appraisers have to go pretty far out to even find any. I have NEVER been charged for this, it's just part of the deal, I usually get a grumble or two, a couple of comments about what retards some of these Lenders are, and then about 3 hours later I have them.
I have at times given him an extra $50 out of my pocket, he never takes it, several checks I have mailed that have never been cashed.
I think what we should do from now on, is ask for 6-7 comps right up front, it just saves time. But $375 to get additional comps, bad business, bad Appraiser.
It is even worse then what you say, it wasnt $375 for more comps, it was $375 for interior photos!!!!! |
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racerx
11094 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 07:15:03 AM
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| As okay as an almost 17-year old dog (that's 119 in dog years!) can be. |
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CoolMtgGuy
2028 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 07:16:37 AM
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| When mortgage brokers can no longer place appraisal orders, they will have to educate themselves, and their borrowers, about the possibility of additional fees (eg: multiple appraisals, multiple submissions, multiple credit reports, etc. etc.) to get the job done. Period. I have always made that a part of my core practice because this has been going on for a long time ... it has just become more common today than it ever was. To behave like things have not changed is silly ... but to each his own. |
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lunarhamster
3138 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 07:16:54 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by vburek
quote:
Originally posted by lunarhamster
The sad part about this story is that the Appraiser didn't even complete his job the first time he was there.
Just like Lisa said, she always takes interior photos, even if they are not included in the report, even for her own records, chances are the Lender will come back and ask for them, that is what a "good" Appraiser would do.
I have had several request's for additional comps, it's almost expected anymore, I wish Lenders would just change their guidlines to say " please provide 2 million comps to support value" then we can inform the Appraiser beforehand.
I also agree with Lisa that it's funny when they ask for add comps, ok.. did you think we just left the best ones out?? sometime Appraisers have to go pretty far out to even find any. I have NEVER been charged for this, it's just part of the deal, I usually get a grumble or two, a couple of comments about what retards some of these Lenders are, and then about 3 hours later I have them.
I have at times given him an extra $50 out of my pocket, he never takes it, several checks I have mailed that have never been cashed.
I think what we should do from now on, is ask for 6-7 comps right up front, it just saves time. But $375 to get additional comps, bad business, bad Appraiser.
It is even worse then what you say, it wasnt $375 for more comps, it was $375 for interior photos!!!!!
That's even more ridiculous then, I'm half asleep.
I'm sure it's against every USPAP law in the book, I'm sure the Appraisal Police will be all over me like Oprah on a glazed ham, but I would have taken the damn photos my self and e/mailed them to the Appraiser.
please do not post USPAP because I dont care, not right now anyway, after I am awake please. |
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vburek
507 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 07:22:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy
When mortgage brokers can no longer place appraisal orders, they will have to educate themselves, and their borrowers, about the possibility of additional fees (eg: multiple appraisals, multiple submissions, multiple credit reports, etc. etc.) to get the job done. Period. I have always made that a part of my core practice because this has been going on for a long time ... it has just become more common today than it ever was. To behave like things have not changed is silly ... but to each his own.
Why do you choose to defend this certain appraiser. He didnt complete the job if he didnt take interior photos. Do you get it. If the lender wants another complete appraisal, i agree pay for another one. But the lender is asking for interior photos of a older house. this appraiser should know that lenders will want interior photos. It seems like the only one in this case that is acting like things havent changed is the appraiser trying to scam another $375. |
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CoolMtgGuy
2028 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 07:33:51 AM
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Sorry... you may not have ready my first post completely. Go back and read my 1st post ... it was far from defending this weasel of an appraiser. My comments are intended to be generic ... about adapting business practices to changing market rules and demands. That's all.
quote:
Originally posted by vburek
quote:
Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy
When mortgage brokers can no longer place appraisal orders, they will have to educate themselves, and their borrowers, about the possibility of additional fees (eg: multiple appraisals, multiple submissions, multiple credit reports, etc. etc.) to get the job done. Period. I have always made that a part of my core practice because this has been going on for a long time ... it has just become more common today than it ever was. To behave like things have not changed is silly ... but to each his own.
Why do you choose to defend this certain appraiser. He didnt complete the job if he didnt take interior photos. Do you get it. If the lender wants another complete appraisal, i agree pay for another one. But the lender is asking for interior photos of a older house. this appraiser should know that lenders will want interior photos. It seems like the only one in this case that is acting like things havent changed is the appraiser trying to scam another $375.
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Lawrence R.
79 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 07:47:30 AM
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It is the appraiser's responsibility to determine the lender's guidelines for an appraisal. That being said, we must know who the lender is.
It is also the appraiser's responsibility to deliver a credible, well documented report that is not misleading...and I must side with most of the brokers here...a majority of the time, the lender's request for additional info is due to the appraiser not delivering a well supported opinion.
As to differing lender guidelines:
If you want to get the appraisal before determining the lender, then you are rolling the dice with the borrower's money in the pot...what if the appraiser ends up not being on the approved list for the end user?
Frankly, it is a bit irresponsible to do business in this fashion. This sort of negates the whole "I don't want to waste my client's money" argument that proliferates here.
If I were a Loan Officer, I would expect that the burden to identify the end user would fall on me...If I were the appraiser on such an assignment, I would be sure to let the LO know that anything above and beyond the standard FNMA requirements would cost extra, if not performed up front.
Since I know it is hard to know where the loan may end up, I am not advocating you wait until the last minute to order your appraisal...maybe another approach would work....
If I were a LO, I would probably download a copy of the most stringent requirements from whatever lender that was, and impose those requirements on all my appraisals...then I would be much more certain that no matter who it ended up with, it would probably pass right through.
Now, as to additional comps...99% of the time, any additional sales used--the appraiser lends very little or NO weight to them...often times THEY supply the sale they want you to put in the report. This is time consuming, because not only do you have to amend the report, you have to spend a great deal of time explaining why the sales are no good, and usually have to field more than a few calls from undereducated U/W's.
If Originators would get a daggummed engagement letter and keep it on file for all his/her appraisers, 75% or more of this type of thing could be avoided. I agree that the days of See, Three and collect a Fee, are over. However, just because the same lenders want more work for the same type of loan does not mean that it comes with the same type of fee. Fees probably will go up, and many of the lesser skilled appraisers are going to have no idea how to determine some of the information the lenders will soon be asking for.
I
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vburek
507 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 07:55:36 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy
Sorry... you may not have ready my first post completely. Go back and read my 1st post ... it was far from defending this weasel of an appraiser. My comments are intended to be generic ... about adapting business practices to changing market rules and demands. That's all.
quote:
Originally posted by vburek
quote:
Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy
When mortgage brokers can no longer place appraisal orders, they will have to educate themselves, and their borrowers, about the possibility of additional fees (eg: multiple appraisals, multiple submissions, multiple credit reports, etc. etc.) to get the job done. Period. I have always made that a part of my core practice because this has been going on for a long time ... it has just become more common today than it ever was. To behave like things have not changed is silly ... but to each his own.
Why do you choose to defend this certain appraiser. He didnt complete the job if he didnt take interior photos. Do you get it. If the lender wants another complete appraisal, i agree pay for another one. But the lender is asking for interior photos of a older house. this appraiser should know that lenders will want interior photos. It seems like the only one in this case that is acting like things havent changed is the appraiser trying to scam another $375.
I was taking your last post as a somewhat defense of this weasel appraiser. Sorry, hope we can still be friends. To the OP, please post this guys name and let other LO's in your shop know not to use him. |
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CoolMtgGuy
2028 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 08:01:22 AM
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No worry man!
quote:
Originally posted by vburek
quote:
Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy
Sorry... you may not have ready my first post completely. Go back and read my 1st post ... it was far from defending this weasel of an appraiser. My comments are intended to be generic ... about adapting business practices to changing market rules and demands. That's all.
quote:
Originally posted by vburek
quote:
Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy
When mortgage brokers can no longer place appraisal orders, they will have to educate themselves, and their borrowers, about the possibility of additional fees (eg: multiple appraisals, multiple submissions, multiple credit reports, etc. etc.) to get the job done. Period. I have always made that a part of my core practice because this has been going on for a long time ... it has just become more common today than it ever was. To behave like things have not changed is silly ... but to each his own.
Why do you choose to defend this certain appraiser. He didnt complete the job if he didnt take interior photos. Do you get it. If the lender wants another complete appraisal, i agree pay for another one. But the lender is asking for interior photos of a older house. this appraiser should know that lenders will want interior photos. It seems like the only one in this case that is acting like things havent changed is the appraiser trying to scam another $375.
I was taking your last post as a somewhat defense of this weasel appraiser. Sorry, hope we can still be friends. To the OP, please post this guys name and let other LO's in your shop know not to use him.
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Lawrence R.
79 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 08:05:53 AM
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quote:
Why do you choose to defend this certain appraiser. He didnt complete the job if he didnt take interior photos. Do you get it. If the lender wants another complete appraisal, i agree pay for another one. But the lender is asking for interior photos of a older house. this appraiser should know that lenders will want interior photos. It seems like the only one in this case that is acting like things havent changed is the appraiser trying to scam another $375.
quote:
I was taking your last post as a somewhat defense of this weasel appraiser. Sorry, hope we can still be friends. To the OP, please post this guys name and let other LO's in your shop know not to use him.
Again how does the appraiser KNOW what the mystery lender may/may not require? There is just no way to know. Not so sure about you, one minute all appraisers are dumb, and the next minute we are supposed to know everything. You need to pick one. Are we dumb, or psychic? |
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vburek
507 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 08:17:39 AM
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| I would say this particular appraiser is a scammer. He had to inspect the interior of the house, didnt he to complete the appraisal. Why not take pics why there. I am going to make an assumption here and i know you shouldnt assume but it wouldnt surprise me if he had already takent interior photos and just wants more money to include. I will say, smart appraisers will take photos even if they dont need them. If you have a digital camera, you can take a 1000 photos, and you dont have to even pay to develope them. This lender is requiring anything out of the ordinary. Just interior pictures of a old house. That is pretty standard. Not all appraisers are dumb and probably not psychic either. The appraisers i use will always take ext. and int. photos. If as an appraiser you cant figure out that while inspecting the inside of the house, maybe you should snap a few pics, then maybe that would be a dumb appraiser or completely lazy as it is not too difficult to snap photos on a camera you already have with you. Let me ask you, are you a dumb, psychic or a smart appraiser? |
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FraudFighter
456 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 08:23:04 AM
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It was a very short couple of years ago that interior photos were NOT typically included in Fannie form appraisal reports. Some lenders actually told appraisers not to include interior photos.
Personally, I've been including interior photos since my first digital camera. Fannie guidelines only call for photos of the subject front of the house, back of the house, and a street scene. If you really do want more, you really should say so right in the beginning.
Engagement letter should be mandatory. If YOU don't know what the appraisal might need that would be over and above the Fannie, or Freddie, or FHA 'guidelines', then how do you expect the appraiser to know?
Q: How many here know what the Fannie Mae Appraisal Guidelines are? |
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slants
4256 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 08:23:56 AM
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| I have never received an appraisal report without interior photos in 18 years and have never ever had to instruct an appraiser to take them, whether they are appraisers I use regularly or out of towners whom I have never worked with. It is the most minimum standard and expectation and not one which requires psychic ability. |
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lgruey
573 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 08:24:52 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by vburek
quote:
Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy
When mortgage brokers can no longer place appraisal orders, they will have to educate themselves, and their borrowers, about the possibility of additional fees (eg: multiple appraisals, multiple submissions, multiple credit reports, etc. etc.) to get the job done. Period. I have always made that a part of my core practice because this has been going on for a long time ... it has just become more common today than it ever was. To behave like things have not changed is silly ... but to each his own.
Why do you choose to defend this certain appraiser. He didnt complete the job if he didnt take interior photos. Do you get it. If the lender wants another complete appraisal, i agree pay for another one. But the lender is asking for interior photos of a older house. this appraiser should know that lenders will want interior photos. It seems like the only one in this case that is acting like things havent changed is the appraiser trying to scam another $375.
Actually the appraiser did complete his job. If no one told him interior photos were required then you can't really expect him to have taken them. When you assume all appraisers operate the same well you know about assuming. Like I said, I personally would have taken interior photos and I do on every assignment. It is not required though to have interior photos to have a complete appraisal. You do have to let appraisers know at the time of engagement that interior photos will be needed. I started taking interior photos of every assignment years ago, and I take them of every room. Not everyone does though and the appraiser should know ahead of time they are needed so there is no additional charge for going back out to the property. I still think that $375 is very excessive though. |
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FraudFighter
456 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 08:26:34 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by slants
I have never received an appraisal report without interior photos in 18 years and have never ever had to instruct an appraiser to take them, whether they are appraisers I use regularly or out of towners whom I have never worked with. It is the most minimum standard and expectation and not one which requires psychic ability.
Wow. 18 yrs goes back to polaroids taped on. I don't know of any residential lender appraisers that included anything other than the basic three - front, rear, street - for the subject. The only extras were if there were significant outbuildings or repair issues. I think it was 2003 when I first saw a lender asking for interior photos. |
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ritabradley01
2326 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 08:27:08 AM
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I find it very interesting that most of these "help, horrible appraisal!" posts are made by people with less than 30 posts. Sometimes it seems like a plant or something.
Mandy, I'm glad you have a great vet, but I think he is unusual. Most vets absolutely would charge for those additional services unless perhaps there is a long standing relationship.
I can't help but wonder, what was the assignment actually? I find myself wondering if the original assignment was for an EXTERIOR appraisal. I can't for the life of me imagine any other reason the appraiser would fail to take interior photos.
OP was the original appraisal an EXTERIOR appraisal? If that's the case and now the lender wants an interior appraisal I can't blame the appraiser for wanting to collect a decent fee ($375 may be too much if this is your typical sfr or condo) but he should definitely be paid well for having to spend half a day of his time on a lender oversight.
Yes, I want to know the appraiser's name too. I want to get his side of the story. I have a feeling there's something you're not telling us. Just like the guy that posted about Adept Appraisals. He had to apologize because he was a jackass. |
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FraudFighter
456 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 08:28:36 AM
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BTW, a few years ago there was at least one thread here where the LO or MB was really upset that the appraiser had included interior photos and was demanding that the appraiser remove them. Some current posters have been here long enough to also remember that. It got hot and heavy here with MBs/LOs telling appraisers that regularly included interior photos that they should never do that unless specifically asked to up front.
My, my... how things change in such a short time. |
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vburek
507 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 08:30:51 AM
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| Why are the other appraisers defending this scammer. So far each appraiser said they take interior photos. Is it to much to ask that the appraiser include them on the appraisal. And if they dont include them, is it to much to ask them to redo appraisal and include them. The 2 most recent appraisers who responded say they always take pics of interior. Let me ask you'll this, if you completed an appraisal and didnt include the interior photos, then the LO calls you to ask they be included cause the lenders want them, would you tell that LO you will have to charge another $375? Simple question, please give a simple yes or no. I am going to go out on a limb and say that niether of you would do that, cause it is bad business and wrong. Stop defending the scammer appraisal who is giving other good appraisers a bad name. |
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Annemieke Roell
575 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 08:31:02 AM
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Here is my take on this, and I have not read all responses so I may be redundant.
Not knowing all the details from all sides, I can see a situation where the Subject is located in a rural area with few sales, let alone comparable sales. So the grid has a TON of adjustments, none within FNMA guidelines. As a rural appraiser, I produce these kinds of reports all the time.
When this is the case and the situation is well explained in minute detail in the report, and the lender continues to come back with "stips" and sales they grabbed off Zaio or realtor.com and want me to analyse them and comment on them, after a while I will start charging $50 an address because it is an exercise in futility and a waste of my time. If tey read my report carefully, they will find every explanation they will ever want.
Frequently it is not an appraisal issue but rather an Underwriting issue; i.e., the loan file does not fit within this particular lender's lending guidelines and needs to go somewhere else.
As far as photographs are concerned .... any appraiser who does NOT take numerous photograps, including interior shots for his/her file is an idiot. It isn't as if these digital pics cost anything and they are very handy to have store in the file on the computer for situations like this.
I put interior pics in every report, regardless of UW requirement. However, if interior photograps are a lender requirement, these requirement should be spelled out in the order. To ask for them as an after thought is silly.
For the appraiser, to ask for another full fee because he has to go get interior shots is basically a business decision, but not a very good one, in my opinion. Something like that falls within my "Customer Service" MO. |
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slants
4256 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 08:32:06 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ritabradley01
I can't help but wonder, what was the assignment actually? I find myself wondering if the original assignment was for an EXTERIOR appraisal. I can't for the life of me imagine any other reason the appraiser would fail to take interior photos.
OP was the original appraisal an EXTERIOR appraisal? If that's the case and now the lender wants an interior appraisal I can't blame the appraiser for wanting to collect a decent fee ($375 may be too much if this is your typical sfr or condo) but he should definitely be paid well for having to spend half a day of his time on a lender oversight.
Yea, it doesn't take psychic abilities to know the assignment was an INTERIOR appraisal. Goes back to the days when photos had to be developed and reports were hand typed. |
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lgruey
573 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 08:33:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by slants
I have never received an appraisal report without interior photos in 18 years and have never ever had to instruct an appraiser to take them, whether they are appraisers I use regularly or out of towners whom I have never worked with. It is the most minimum standard and expectation and not one which requires psychic ability.
You are wrong on it being the most minimum standard. Front, Rear, and street are minimum. If you expect them then let the appraiser know. |
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lunarhamster
3138 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 08:33:49 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by FraudFighter
BTW, a few years ago there was at least one thread here where the LO or MB was really upset that the appraiser had included interior photos and was demanding that the appraiser remove them. Some current posters have been here long enough to also remember that. It got hot and heavy here with MBs/LOs telling appraisers that regularly included interior photos that they should never do that unless specifically asked to up front.
My, my... how things change in such a short time.
As usual Pam you twist the scenerio into a cluster duck to try and make the LO look as though he was being unreasonable.
Answer the question, would you charge an additional $375 to go back and take interior photos? |
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Annemieke Roell
575 Posts |
Posted - 08/07/2008 : 08:34:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by vburek
quote:
Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy
When mortgage brokers can no longer place appraisal orders, they will have to educate themselves, and their borrowers, about the possibility of additional fees (eg: multiple appraisals, multiple submissions, multiple credit reports, etc. etc.) to get the job done. Period. I have always made that a part of my core practice because this has been going on for a long time ... it has just become more common today than it ever was. To behave like things have not changed is silly ... but to each his own.
[b]
Why do you choose to defend this certain appraiser. He didnt complete the job if he didnt take interior photos. Do you get it. If the lender wants another complete appraisal, i agree pay for another one. But the lender is asking for interior photos of a older house. this appraiser should know that lenders will want interior photos.[/b] It seems like the only one in this case that is acting like things havent changed is the appraiser trying to scam another $375.
Unless this requirement was spelled out in the order/letter of engagement, it is NOT up to the appraiser to assume things. | | | |
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