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KHufford
5993 Posts |
 Posted - 07/29/2008 : 2:34:17 PM
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Missing: Mortgage jobs
The Arizona Republic
The pop of the housing bubble has hit few groups harder than those from the mortgage industry.
Many who were earning comfortable salaries as brokers and account managers are now turning to staffing agencies to find new jobs, and in many cases, to explore new careers.
As mortgage companies continue to fold, their employees are struggling, largely without success, to find jobs with comparable pay.
Many who were making six-figures at the height of the housing boom are now taking whatever they can to pay the bills.
The Arizona Association of Mortgage Brokers is down to 400 members from 700 a year ago, having lost 10 percent of its brokers and 50 percent of affiliates, such as loan representatives and account officers.
"There's not enough businesses out there for people that were in the industry during the boom time," said the association's president Stan Lund.
As a result, temporary and staffing agencies say that job seekers from the mortgage industry are flooding their databases. In addition, staffing agencies say they have had overall increases in job seekers during the downturn, with more professional resumes than they've ever seen before.
Those with mortgage backgrounds are looking for any available positions, knowing they'll have to survive with considerable pay cuts.
In many cases, staffing agencies say there's nowhere for them to land.
"They're now grateful to receive a sales position with a base salary of $40,000 a year with a commission plan," said Sherri Mitchell, president and CEO of All About People staffing agency in Phoenix.
Lori Cook of Scottsdale worked as a loan closer in the mortgage industry for more than 15 years before getting laid off in February. Now she's using Corporate Job Bank in Tempe to find an income to support her three children with two still living at home.
"I need the energy and self-esteem that comes from being part of the work force," Cook said.
Melissa Ochsner, branch manager of Adecco staffing agency's Central Phoenix office, said her branch has seen a 25 percent increase in total job applicants since the housing bust.
A surge in real estate in 2005 and 2006 caused employment to swell in the mortgage industry.
The Arizona Department of Commerce reported a 5.3 percent year over year increase in employment in 2005 in the state's finance and insurance sector, and a 4.4 percent increase in 2006.
"You couldn't find those people fast enough for the lending institutions then," Mitchell said.
The turnaround started in August 2007, when Arizona's finance and insurance sector had a 1.8 percent employment decrease from August 2006. The monthly declines continued, peaking in April 2008 with a 5.4 percent decrease from April 2007.
Difficult to measure
For every high-profile closing or layoff, which in Arizona included the shutdown of First Magnus Financial Corp. in Tucson and the mortgage operation of Scottsdale-based First National Bank, both in August 2007, the industry saw closings of dozens of smaller, independent firms.
"You have a lot of small companies that have really just disappeared, but nobody knew they existed in the first place," said Jay Butler, director of the realty studies group at ASU.
Mortgage companies that concentrated on subprime and no-documentation loans began closing their doors as early as late 2006, and with the housing market still near its bottom, mortgage players continue to feel the pressure.
"These were relatively good-paying jobs, and for a lot of those people, there's no good replacement for them," Butler said.
Brian Hamerla said every time he goes to a job interview, the employer asks for financial advice instead of asking about his skills.
"The interviews that I have been on, they treat us like we have the plague," Hamerla said. "There's a reputation out there of mortgage brokers being untrained."
Hamerla said he's earning about a third of the six-figure salary he was making a few years ago as a mortgage broker.
He's still running his business, Hamerla Mortgage, but he also works part-time selling timeshares to pay the bills.
It's been more than a year since Hamerla Mortgage was earning enough money to support itself, but he's hoping to keep afloat until the industry turns around.
"I'm not going to give up what I've worked 15 years to have," he said.
Hamerla is looking for a management position where he can work 40-hours a week but he hasn't had any job offers, despite the fact that his girlfriend runs a recruiting agency.
"The biggest struggle is the stereotype put on mortgage brokers right now," Hamerla said. "I'm almost exclusively living on reserves."
Many are using temp agencies as a way to pay the bills while they look for something more permanent.
Denise Arana, 30, was making $80,000 a year as an account executive at First Magnus before it went under in August 2007. Following a two-month stint with IndyMac Bank, she found herself unemployed, again. After living on her savings and 401(k) for a few months, she began looking for a new career.
"I never thought it would be so difficult," Arana said, who has a master's in business from the University of Phoenix and a bachelor's in justice studies and policy from ASU.
She's currently earning $12 an hour at a data entry position she found through AppleOne employment agency in Scottsdale.
"I basically live to pay my bills now," she said.
Arana said she applies to 10 to 15 job postings a week and is lucky to get one response. She thinks her situation is being complicated by the fact that there are so many resumes floating around from the mortgage industry.
She commonly crosses job postings that say people with mortgage backgrounds need not apply.
Skills issues
Besides competing with the other Arizonans looking for jobs, people from mortgage are also battling their lack of experience in other industries. While many were proficient in their previous positions, staffing agencies say not all job applicants are familiar with Microsoft Office, a skill required by most employers.
Staffing agencies say employers want to hire people with experience, not people they'll have to train.
Tanya Perkins, assistant branch manager at AppleOne in Tempe, said she usually tries to evaluate the likeliness that job seekers with a mortgage background will be placed in a job before they come in for an interview and testing.
"They're calling and asking for our help, but we're not necessarily able to place them," Perkins said. "We've been emphasizing that we need to recruit the people that we can place in jobs."
She has seen a heavy increase in applicants from mortgage since January. She places some in sales and others in clerical and office-support positions, but she turns away the applicants she doesn't think she can help.
"Usually the ones with the most trouble finding a position are the one's with a specific skill set," she said.
Terez Sanguine, who runs Staffing Consultants Inc., said she also has trouble placing some from the mortgage industry.
"A lot of people coming out of certain industries really aren't as skilled as they believe they are," Sanguine said. "They don't have that skill set to support that salary they've been accustomed to."
She said many people got into mortgage with high salaries because the industry needed people to keep up with the workloads during the boom.
Now with the large pools of job candidates, employers can be pickier with whom they hire and what they pay them.
"Companies want to hire someone who has experience," Sanguine said.
Reach the reporter at ashley.rueff@arizonarepublic.com or at 602-444-8170. |
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KHufford
5993 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 2:35:22 PM
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READER COMMENTS:
* postcourage
* Jul-28 @ 5:26 PM
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Missing....news story.
* jsak299
* Jul-28 @ 5:57 PM
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With listingsupply.com showing falling MLS listings in Arizona, and many homes in bubble ravaged towns like Maricopa and Buckeye cheaper to buy than to rent (or to buy and cash flow instantly, for investors), signs of a real estate bottom should be visible within the next few months. With that in mind, I rather try to sell mortgages here than in the east coast where prices haven't fallen much, but there is hardly any sales volume.
* chrisajc
* Jul-28 @ 8:34 PM
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"The interviews that I have been on, they treat us like we have the plague," Hamerla said. "There's a reputation out there of mortgage brokers being untrained."
- You do have low skills. It doesn't take a high school education to sell a mortgage. Unfortunately, there is also overcapacity in the industry. Now, jobs are lost. It's economics. Cope.
* AzSooner
* Jul-28 @ 10:16 PM
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They should've saved all that money during the boom.
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* cchamb2
* Jul-29 @ 4:59 AM
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Wait until those "mortgage professionals" find out that their good buddy at the staffing agency is making $30K plus commission, and that the agency is pulling 30 percent from the employer.
On the other hand, this is such a nice fluff piece of the Republic, advertising the services of staffing agencies and recruiters.
* hondah71
* Jul-29 @ 10:11 AM
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Real estate prices may bottom out for a few months, but the long-term problem is that over the next 10-15 years, fuel, food, and services are going to be comprising a much larger portion of individual spending than in the past. This means that spending for assets or loans to pay for assets will have to decrease, and that will probably mean severe downward pressure on home prices, automobile prices.
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* stingrays26
* Jul-29 @ 10:18 AM
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"There's a reputation out there of mortgage brokers being untrained."
Um yeah!!!! HELLO!!!! That is so true for A LOT of brokers out there. Not all are untrained though. This is true for a lot of realtors as well. Again, not all though.
I am so glad that I work for the bank directly. My boss with with me at one of my 5 offices the other day. Within the 3 hours he was there he received 17 calls from brokers that are looking for jobs. With the new housing bill and eliminating the down payment assistance programs, I would expect more job loss as well.
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* stigr
* Jul-29 @ 10:22 AM
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Predicting the market will bottom in the next few months is nothing but wishful thinking--and very dangerous for those on the financial edge. More like a few months plus 12-18 months...
Batten down your financial hatches and prepare for the long haul.
* BaronRed
* Jul-29 @ 10:44 AM
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Sympathy Level:
Zero -x------------------------------ High
The entire process of planning, constructing, and selling houses needs a process wide visit from a paring knife. Home prices are not being helped by the 10 to 20 professionals that are now part of the home buying experience, with each of them tacking their fees onto the process. I'm this bitter, and I haven't even had to sell a home, where most of these costs show themselves all too vividly. Yes, Mortgages are an unfortunate necessary to purchase a home, but it's an ancillary function. It became it's own industry during the last housing boom, and here's to hoping it'll contract back to it's support function during this bust.
And, for the record, I'm part of the planning, construction, and selling process. Anyone who I've offended, be comforted by the fact Karma may turn around and bite me in the *** for this post.
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* ektaliptka
* Jul-29 @ 10:53 AM
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"There's a reputation out there of mortgage brokers being untrained."
-That is true because a lot were. And those are the ones looking for new careers. The trained ones are still in the business. This is good for the industry and good for the consumer.
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ritabradley01
3228 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 2:44:30 PM
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| scary |
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Rene Viloria
1826 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 2:45:31 PM
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| i met a girl and i told her i was a mortgage broker, she ran the other way... |
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KHufford
5993 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 2:48:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rene Viloria
i met a girl and i told her i was a mortgage broker, she ran the other way...
Thats why I am a 'real estate financier'...
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darkstar
18289 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 2:53:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rene Viloria
i met a girl and i told her i was a mortgage broker, she ran the other way...
Don't worry, you'll find one that's looking for a bad boy! LOL
>>>"Usually the ones with the most trouble finding a position are the one's with a specific skill set," she said.
Yeah, order takers... |
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Managing Prime
2802 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 2:56:01 PM
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"A lot of people coming out of certain industries really aren't as skilled as they believe they are," Sanguine said. "They don't have that skill set to support that salary they've been accustomed to."
Bingo.
A.B.C. - Always be closing needs to be tempered with A.B.L. - Always be learning
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frank drigotas j
1518 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 2:56:28 PM
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I don't know what to say.
Well, yes I do, but people here on BO are getting tired of me saying it.
I am trying my best, honestly, to defer to them.
Things will play out, I fear.
dollar |
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Managing Prime
2802 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 4:05:08 PM
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The Fly and the Ant
The fly and the ant were arguing over their worth.
"Great *Jupiter" said the former,
"Must self-esteem blind the minds
In such an odious way,
That a vile and rampant animal
Dare to claim equality with a flying damsel?
I haunt Palaces, at your table I sit:
If an ox is sacrificed, I taste it ahead of you;
While this puny and miserable one,
Lives three days on a chaff she drug home.
But, tell me my sweet,
Do you ever light on a King's head,
An emperor, or a beautiful girl?
I do it, and I kiss a beautiful breast at will;
I buzz playing through her hair;
Hightening her usually pale complexion;
And the final touch added to the beauty
Of a lady going out to conquer,
Is an adjustment borrowed from *us.
Well, my head is aching
With your lofts- Did you say?
The housewife replied.
"You do haunt Palaces, but you are hated there.
As far as being first to taste
Of what is served the these Gods,
Do you believe it to be better?
If you enter everywhere, so do laymen.
Upon Kings heads and Donkeys too
You alight, and that I'll not deny.
I know, too, that a prompt death
Is often punishment for your importunities.
Certain primping, you say, beautifies;
I grant it: it is as black as you and I.
It is called Fly: is that a reason why
You should sing your praises so?
Aren't flies also called parasites?
So stop your babble so vain:
Think no more these haughty thoughts.
Court flies are chased out;
*Spies hang high, and so will you die of hunger,
Of cold, languishing, miserable,
When *Phoebus will reign on another hemisphere,
Then, I shall enjoy the fruit of my labor.
I'll not go, up hill and down dale,
To expose myself to wind and rain;
Then I shall live trouble-free.
Having taken precautions will exempt me from worry.
Thus I shall teach you there
The meaning of false or true glory.
Farewell, I am wasting time, let me work;
Neither my loft, nor my cupboard
Are stocked by idle chatter."
Work steadily and always plan for lean times. |
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sheriephillips
408 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 5:07:12 PM
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I've spent the past year increasing my education level, taking certification tests in various areas of law, taking on an internship at a law-firm, and networking with several local and national groups. Having 16 years in the mortgage lending industry, I'm starting to realize that saying I was a stay-at-home mom for the past 16 years is probably a better option then saying I've been a VP for a Fortune 250 mortgage company.
It takes a lot of work to distance yourself from the negative publicity this year has caused. All I can say is this... for those leaving the business, plan out what you want to do and work really hard to reinvent yourself. I still have several things to work on before I appear employable, sad but true! By the time I'm done, there will be little to no mention of my mortgage past, it will be all new and fresh skills that are marketable. Just takes some time and work, but it can be done! |
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aspiring1
1313 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 5:16:38 PM
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It's sad how so many people in the mortgage industry never developed true sales skills and were making six figures a year. I can't imagine how hard it must be going back to making a third of that etc, without job skills transferable to other industrys. Luckily
I came from accounting.... |
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darkstar
18289 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 5:21:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by aspiring1
It's sad how so many people in the mortgage industry never developed true sales skills and were making six figures a year. I can't imagine how hard it must be going back to making a third of that etc, without job skills transferable to other industrys. Luckily
I came from accounting....
A year or so ago people would argue with me that this wasn't a sale job, look at them now! |
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Managing Prime
2802 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 5:23:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by darkstar
A year or so ago people would argue with me that this wasn't a sale job, look at them now!
Mentioning that. I need one good hardcore closer...someone who is used to 6 figures(and can document) but is tired of all the crap...just wants to qualify and make the sale. |
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sheriephillips
408 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 5:27:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by aspiring1
It's sad how so many people in the mortgage industry never developed true sales skills and were making six figures a year. I can't imagine how hard it must be going back to making a third of that etc, without job skills transferable to other industrys. Luckily
I came from accounting....
True, if you were in sales. Although I hear many employers still don't want to hire anyone with a mortgage sales background whatsoever. So it doesn't matter how great you were in sales, you still may find yourself unmarketable. Accounting is still a marketable skill, good thing you got that under your belt. |
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KHufford
5993 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 5:59:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sheriephillips
quote:
Originally posted by aspiring1
It's sad how so many people in the mortgage industry never developed true sales skills and were making six figures a year. I can't imagine how hard it must be going back to making a third of that etc, without job skills transferable to other industrys. Luckily
I came from accounting....
True, if you were in sales. Although I hear many employers still don't want to hire anyone with a mortgage sales background whatsoever. So it doesn't matter how great you were in sales, you still may find yourself unmarketable. Accounting is still a marketable skill, good thing you got that under your belt.
Well no offense, but if a person has no college degree and just wanted to get rich slinging mortgages, then they dont really deserve much..other than hoping to go into another sales job..
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visionmtg
542 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 6:03:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Managing Prime
"A lot of people coming out of certain industries really aren't as skilled as they believe they are," Sanguine said. "They don't have that skill set to support that salary they've been accustomed to."
Bingo.
A.B.C. - Always be closing needs to be tempered with A.B.L. - Always be learning
I got lucky & was picked up by a Group Medical Healthcare company as an underwriter after being a wholesale mortgage underwriter for 8+ years.
I must say I had no idea that what I thought was underwriting in the mortgage industry was basically 1+1 stuff compared to what I'm doing & learning now. The pay is less & the required learning, knowledge & expertise level needed to do ones job is 10 fold the mortgage requirements.
But like I said I know I'm lucky to have this position after being u/e for so long. |
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sc312001
1048 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 7:21:08 PM
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It amazes me that people entrusted us with the purchase of their largest, most important life asset. Most of us who have been around many years know a lot of the legalities & can handle any situation thrown at us while protecting our borrowers.
The plague, huh? Only when it's convenient. |
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Rene Viloria
1826 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 8:28:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by darkstar
quote:
Originally posted by aspiring1
It's sad how so many people in the mortgage industry never developed true sales skills and were making six figures a year. I can't imagine how hard it must be going back to making a third of that etc, without job skills transferable to other industrys. Luckily
I came from accounting....
A year or so ago people would argue with me that this wasn't a sale job, look at them now!
AGREE! THIS IS A SALES JOB, but we got complacent, now we got a get back to abcs, and leave the pride behind, back to cold calling and hustling... I used to brag about not doing anything and getting paid, now i have to work... There is still business out there! Do what you love and do it well, never quit, is not an option... |
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Rene Viloria
1826 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 8:30:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sheriephillips
quote:
Originally posted by aspiring1
It's sad how so many people in the mortgage industry never developed true sales skills and were making six figures a year. I can't imagine how hard it must be going back to making a third of that etc, without job skills transferable to other industrys. Luckily
I came from accounting....
True, if you were in sales. Although I hear many employers still don't want to hire anyone with a mortgage sales background whatsoever. So it doesn't matter how great you were in sales, you still may find yourself unmarketable. Accounting is still a marketable skill, good thing you got that under your belt.
They can not sale the recruiter...Therefore they can not sale, you are going to tell me that if you can sale, someone is not going to hire you... |
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frank drigotas j
1518 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 8:37:46 PM
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"They can not sale the recruiter...Therefore they can not sale, you are going to tell me that if you can sale, someone is not going to hire you..."
rene, above
Huh?
dollar |
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joes6370
115 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 8:38:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by sc312001
It amazes me that people entrusted us with the purchase of their largest, most important life asset. Most of us who have been around many years know a lot of the legalities & can handle any situation thrown at us while protecting our borrowers.
The plague, huh? Only when it's convenient.
Such is the way human minds work. When things are great, they thank you. When things are bad, they curse you. Doesn't matter if you are really to blame. It feels good to blame you.
That's why I went to computer services. Being a loan officer today is akin to being a nazi in 1946. Everyone wants to skin me alive so I don't even mention it anymore. After putting out 100's of resumes over the past 10 months, Wachovia picked me up as a 100% commission rep back in October but I continued to look for a job that pays a wage based on something other than public opinion since I had just moved to a new area where I knew about 5 people, all family members. Starting over, basically. If I hear "overqualified" one more time after spending $10-15 on gas and 2 hours of my time to interview with some idiot who just got out of college and isn't really interested in me at all, I think I might be writing this from a rubber cell next time.
So I decided to take a different angle... I changed my resume this month to say I have been a self employed computer consultant for the past 12 years. Liar? not really. I have done freelance work as a computer consultant over the years from time to time. I do have 22 years experience with computer applications, architecture, and networking so it's not an outright lie, just ommision of working as a broker/banker/VP anything mortgage related. But, it will probably get people to call me now that they won't know I'm really Josef Mordgage-ele. So stupid, but that's what it takes. Appease the sheep that are the mob. As the Romans taught us, the mob rules. I'll let everyone know how it pans out when/if I find a job before I make it on my own. |
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joes6370
115 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 9:03:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rene Viloria
They can not sale the recruiter...Therefore they can not sale, you are going to tell me that if you can sale, someone is not going to hire you...
Failed his ESL classes, I guess. |
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Rene Viloria
1826 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 9:13:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by joes6370
quote:
Originally posted by Rene Viloria
They can not sale the recruiter...Therefore they can not sale, you are going to tell me that if you can sale, someone is not going to hire you...
Failed his ESL classes, I guess.You failed to make it in the business...
At least i am in the business... You had to get out! Plus i speak 4 languages, how many do you speak??? |
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sc312001
1048 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 9:16:42 PM
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| That's great, Joes! Good luck! |
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Managing Prime
2802 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 9:22:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rene Viloria
At least i am in the business... You had to get out! Plus i speak 4 languages, how many do you speak???
LOL...touché!!
Rene. I see you are in Florida. Do you run your own company or are you independent? If it's the later my friend here has a position for serious closers to make serious $$$. |
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joes6370
115 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2008 : 9:54:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rene Viloria
quote:
Originally posted by joes6370
quote:
Originally posted by Rene Viloria
They can not sale the recruiter...Therefore they can not sale, you are going to tell me that if you can sale, someone is not going to hire you...
Failed his ESL classes, I guess.You failed to make it in the business...
At least i am in the business... You had to get out! Plus i speak 4 languages, how many do you speak???
Relax. I didn't mean it as a personal affront. Everyone makes typos, me included. It seemed like a funny thing to say given the content. You must admit it makes zero sense as submitted. I know what you meant. BTW I am far from a failure in this business. One does not survive 11 years in one profession without being successful. You will die someday, as we all will. Does that make you a failure at life? Hardly. I chose to exit until there is some structure in it once again. It is in total chaos right now and luckily I have a 2nd skill to fall back on. Not everyone has that and I'm grateful for having it. I'm also still "in the business" so you can't say that I am "out of it" either. I just don't do it primarily anymore and I don't take money for my consulting. I do still follow the industry, very closely, as I will someday enter it as a profession again. I think that is evidenced by my presence here. Who better to learn from than your peers?
BTW I only speak English and am halfway decent at Espanol and a little Portuguese. I respect anyone who is fluent in more than one language. It's an admirable trait. I wish I spoke Spanish better than I do. |
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