quote:

---

Originally posted by mantixmortgage

thats funny, so the realtor probly spent all this time trying to get them to buy, then you go to the dudes house and tell him not to buy and essentially kill the transaction

they're gonna send you a ton of business

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by dtabar

You shouldn't of advised the borrower to do anything. Especially since you were referred by the Realtor to qualify the borrower.

If they want to buy, let them buy. If they ask your opinion give your opinion and leave it at that. You don't know the WHOLE story and the Realtor could of known more to it than you. You never know.

I personally would be pissed if my Notary told my borrower they should not do the loan.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by TransNet

First off I presume they were not under contract yet. If they were you opened yourself up to a lawsuit if they say that they are defaulting due to your advice, given that they qualify for the loan.

If they are not contractually obligated, you did the agent a favor. If the buyer wasn't committed (sold) then at some point in the process they would get cold feet and the transaction could get ugly. You can't talk someone out of buying a house that they are really committed to even if they can't afford it. (I've tried. lol) So I don't think you "killed" anything. A successful agent knows that if you put people first you make much more in commission in the long run than if you are only interested in the transaction in front of you. This is the basis of relationship selling as opposed to transactional selling.

One of my favorite sayings is "I can't tell you what you can afford, only what you qualify for." If they realized that they can't "afford" this house then you have done everyone in the transaction (including the seller) a favor. Better now than a week before closing.

Since they have money to work with I do agree with Darkstar's idea of rearranging their budget using some of the money that they were planning to use for down payment to see if the home can fit their income and expenses.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by johnnyboy38109

quote:

---

Originally posted by dtabar

You shouldn't of advised the borrower to do anything. Especially since you were referred by the Realtor to qualify the borrower.

If they want to buy, let them buy. If they ask your opinion give your opinion and leave it at that. You don't know the WHOLE story and the Realtor could of known more to it than you. You never know.

I personally would be pissed if my Notary told my borrower they should not do the loan.

---

This is part and parcel of the problem we have now.

The only concern the overwhelming majority of mortgage folk have is where they can sniff out their next paycheck. Thats why they are always having to sniff out their next paycheck. Thats a brand of thinking few understand, or have the guts to employ. And thats why so many have left or been laid off. Its the difference between being a legimate member of the business community and doing whats right and being just some guy who is always having to shake the bushes to make it. Most people in business cannot see past 5 inches in front of their faces, no one is willing to say to prospects "I dont think you can afford it", no one even at this stage where mortgage delinquencies are skyrocketing, is willing to refuse to contribute to the problem. The borrower, our industry, the economy, and the country are not well served by this shortsighted mentality, and we, on balance, have not learned a thing.

The poster did, very obviously, the right thing.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banker0679

if you honestly think that someone who can put that much down can't pay a mortgage payment then you need to find yourself another profession.

you should've made the sale!

next time you have a conscience experience maybe you should think about selling your car & walking first. You're polluting our atmosphere with the carbon monoxide.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banker0679

if you honestly think that someone who can put that much down can't pay a mortgage payment then you need to find yourself another profession.

you should've made the sale!

next time you have a conscience experience maybe you should think about selling your car & walking first. You're polluting our atmosphere with the carbon monoxide.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CoralSnake

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banker0679

if you honestly think that someone who can put that much down can't pay a mortgage payment then you need to find yourself another profession.

you should've made the sale!

next time you have a conscience experience maybe you should think about selling your car & walking first. You're polluting our atmosphere with the carbon monoxide.

---

IM not sure if you are serious about this one??

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by TransNet

John,

Do you know for certain that the borrower had not obligated themselves to a contract? My point was that originators should be careful in encouraging people to not fullfill their legal obligations. Other than that I agree totally with your comments that the poster did the right thing and that in the long run looking out for the public's best interest is in everyone's best interest.

Nick,

It wasn't the OP that decided that the borrower couldn't afford to buy the proerty, it was the buyer that made that decision. Better sooner than later. You can't lose what you didn't have.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by TransNet

John,

I can't. It is highly unlikely that an originator would be sued for tortuous interference with a contract in this circumstance. And I certainly don't mind talking with a customer about their ability or inability to repay a loan. But I don't encourage anyone to default on their legal obligations either.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by cspatmon

Transnet, he probably misunderstood in what context you were referring. I'll expand that the borrower's legal obligation a bottom line PA.

---

quote:

---

Randy,
I would be honest with the agent. It sounds like the buyer is not sure that they can afford this property regardless of what they qualify for. As John said, "Realtors that expect LOs to push borrowers into loans they dont feel they can afford are not realtors I'd want anything to do with."

I also think that you give yourself too much credit. Do you [i]really think you convinced these people that they can't afford this house? If they had told you, "This is our dream house, we are so excited, thank you so much for helping us with the financing, we have been dreaming for this soooo long" do you think you could have talked them out of it? These people have reservations for a reason. It sounds like after you listened to their reservations they were not unreasonable ones. That doesn't mean that you can't give support and reassurance to borrowers that are having a case of cold feet. Most buyers go through this. But a borrower that truly has doubts about affording the home they are thinking of buying need someone that can empathize with them, not someone that is tryng to shove a loan down their throat.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banker0679

your story doesnt add up

54k per year is 4500 per month
110k mortgage at 6.25% is 677.29 with tax/ins...probably 1000 or less
That would make his front end at 22%.

You can tell him to use some of the 110k to pay things off?

What is missing from this equation?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banker0679

I AM SERIOUS. You guys are self righteous to even say anything different.

I haven't written any subprime mortgage or exotic mortgages.
I dont write loans that have an interest higher than 7%.
I give most of my borrowers PAR RATE with 1 point in the front.
Most of you guys won't even do the loan if you weren't making 3 points!

Hypocrites!

I'm not the Underwriter, and neither are YOU.

Most of you would charge 3-4 points JUST BECAUSE THE BORROWER CAN AFFORD IT.

IF ANYONE HERE THINKS THEY'RE RIGHTEOUS THEN SEND YOUR BORROWERS TO NACA OR ACORN.
NACA has NO CLOSING COSTS...NO PMI....and today's rate is 5.625% for a 30yr fixed!

DO THE RIGHT THINK FOLKS...AND START SENDING YOUR BORROWERS TO NACA.

BTW mrwiizrd...your profile picture makes me puke.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by rsd317

I know everyone is struggling out there,but i wanted to pose a question.

A borrower, who is making about 54k a year wanted to buy a coop for 220k. He had about 120K to put down and a 45% dti and had pre approved for 110k mtg. After sitting at the kitchen with him and his family and hearing his life story, I saw that maybe buying wasnt the best option. It was an emotional conversation and after looking at his net income(which i generally enver do) it seemed like it would be really tight to support himself and 2 children. The conversation was one of doom and gllom which was partially my fauly. The long and short of it was that he decide that it was probably not the best idea to buy. Should I have just made the sale and called it a day? after talking to my colleagues most said it is not my decision to say if he can or can not afford. My emotions got tied up in the transaction and it was a lead from a realtor that is top producer. I hope I do not ruin this deal. I guess I know the answer to my question:he was qualified based on freddie/fannioe guidelines. Just want to hear everyones thougths.Thanks.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by benjamin

The tax benefits and credits for chidren definately puts it in favor of buying. Lower down payment, either paying off other debt or even having a cushion makes this a deal one that should have consumated.

Historical ratios were 28/36. I have too assume they have a credit card or two, or car payment which could be reduced.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banker0679

I AM SERIOUS. You guys are self righteous to even say anything different.

I haven't written any subprime mortgage or exotic mortgages.
I dont write loans that have an interest higher than 7%.
I give most of my borrowers PAR RATE with 1 point in the front.
Most of you guys won't even do the loan if you weren't making 3 points!

Hypocrites!

I'm not the Underwriter, and neither are YOU.

Most of you would charge 3-4 points JUST BECAUSE THE BORROWER CAN AFFORD IT.

IF ANYONE HERE THINKS THEY'RE RIGHTEOUS THEN SEND YOUR BORROWERS TO NACA OR ACORN.
NACA has NO CLOSING COSTS...NO PMI....and today's rate is 5.625% for a 30yr fixed!

DO THE RIGHT THINK FOLKS...AND START SENDING YOUR BORROWERS TO NACA.

BTW mrwiizrd...your profile picture makes me puke.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banker0679

I AM SERIOUS. You guys are self righteous to even say anything different.

I haven't written any subprime mortgage or exotic mortgages.
I dont write loans that have an interest higher than 7%.
I give most of my borrowers PAR RATE with 1 point in the front.
Most of you guys won't even do the loan if you weren't making 3 points!

Hypocrites!

I'm not the Underwriter, and neither are YOU.

Most of you would charge 3-4 points JUST BECAUSE THE BORROWER CAN AFFORD IT.

IF ANYONE HERE THINKS THEY'RE RIGHTEOUS THEN SEND YOUR BORROWERS TO NACA OR ACORN.
NACA has NO CLOSING COSTS...NO PMI....and today's rate is 5.625% for a 30yr fixed!

DO THE RIGHT THINK FOLKS...AND START SENDING YOUR BORROWERS TO NACA.

BTW mrwiizrd...your profile picture makes me puke.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by goodguy1

not knowing all of the details of the transaction (job history, reserves, etc.), maybe he could have been approved for a bit more and put less down; which could have resulted in him being more satisfied by not depleting so much of his cash.

I think a person's ethics have to be strong. You could have handled this better and still got the deal done. More legwork on your part with finding out more about your client and getting to know him would have helped tremendously.

I don't know if you did the right thing because there are too many questions at this point.
What if he just wwanted you to re-assure him because he is one who typically experiences "buyers remorse"

Get to know your client better.

my .02

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy

You overstepped your bounds. If you could not do the loan, you should have simply informed the borrower as such. Otherwise, get the loan done and keep you rpersonal opinions to yourself. You are not a financial advisor or planner nor were you asked for your opinion. You are simply an originator.

Furthermore, you have a responsibility to your referral partner and you failed there.
Remember that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. You may have done the right thing for you ... but not necessarily for the borrower or your referral partner.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by darkstar

RSD, be glad you're not as hard up as some of these desperate LOs that "need" to make every deal or starve because they can't admit they can't make it now that skills are needed...In that position they can't possibly consider what's best for the borrower, well, they may consider it, but they're only thinking about what pays them...Just because it can be a deal, doesn't mean it should be, more people with your attitude is what's missing in our industry...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy

Since when is the average originator qualified to determine "what is best for the borrower". That is an arrogrant and presumptious mindset for an originator to have. I would laugh at any originator who would be presumptious and egotistical enough to tell me what they think is best for me as a borrower. Originators are not qualified to make that call and it is not their job responsibility either. Which originator ever tells their client "Mr. borrower, in my infinite wisdom I know what what is in your best interest and I will tell you whether or not you shoud do this transaction".

Stick to generating leads. Leave the originations to others.

quote:

---

Originally posted by darkstar

RSD, be glad you're not as hard up as some of these desperate LOs that "need" to make every deal or starve because they can't admit they can't make it now that skills are needed...In that position they can't possibly consider what's best for the borrower, well, they may consider it, but they're only thinking about what pays them...Just because it can be a deal, doesn't mean it should be, more people with your attitude is what's missing in our industry...

---

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banker0679

I assume you never written a stated loan? Nope, never have, not one.

I'm also assuming that you send your borrowers to NACA. My borrower's are corporations, so it's not an option.

Why dont you find yourself another job because you're clearly ripping ppl off with your closing costs, PMI, and higher interest rate. Oh right, putting a consumer in a loan they QUALIFY for but can't AFFORD isn't ripping people off, it's doing your job. Gotcha. And people wonder why we're in the middle of a housing crisis.

When ppl ask you about NACA or Bofa's program....do you tell them they have a better program or do you lie through your teeth to get the deal?

Kind of double standard I see...

Not really at all

quote:

---

Originally posted by mrwiizrd

quote:

---

Originally posted by Banker0679

I AM SERIOUS. You guys are self righteous to even say anything different.

I haven't written any subprime mortgage or exotic mortgages.
I dont write loans that have an interest higher than 7%.
I give most of my borrowers PAR RATE with 1 point in the front.
Most of you guys won't even do the loan if you weren't making 3 points!

Hypocrites!

I'm not the Underwriter, and neither are YOU.

Most of you would charge 3-4 points JUST BECAUSE THE BORROWER CAN AFFORD IT.

IF ANYONE HERE THINKS THEY'RE RIGHTEOUS THEN SEND YOUR BORROWERS TO NACA OR ACORN.
NACA has NO CLOSING COSTS...NO PMI....and today's rate is 5.625% for a 30yr fixed!

DO THE RIGHT THINK FOLKS...AND START SENDING YOUR BORROWERS TO NACA.

BTW mrwiizrd...your profile picture makes me puke.

---

Wow, quite the zinger there with that last line, the picture is a bit, I would think even a child could figure that out. I'm going to bow out, but if I were you I would take a second to think about what you are writing in this thread, your comments make me ashamed to be in the real estate industry.

---

---