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ccbank
1215 Posts |
 Posted - 06/23/2008 : 12:33:01 PM
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Six San Diego Brokers Face Mortgage Fraud Charges
Last Updated:
06-20-08 at 7:30AM
Six local men face fraud indictments Friday in a nationwide crackdown prompted by the country's ongoing home-foreclosure crisis.
Three of those facing charges locally as a result of "Operation Malicious Mortgage" remain fugitives, according to the U.S. Attorney's Office.
They were identified as Rafael Santiago, 39, of Riverside, and Chula Vista residents Angel Armendariz, 27, and Lucette Montane, 25.
The others -- Abner Betech, 27, Aviva Betech, 29, and Said Betech, 32, all of San Diego -- were arraigned on Tuesday. The three defendants' relationship to each other was not immediately clear.
According to the felony complaint, Abner and Said Betech and others founded Creative Financial Solutions Inc., a mortgage brokerage company with an office at 707 Broadway in San Diego, in 2005.
The firm billed itself as being in the business of sending loan-application packages and other documents to lenders for review and funding.
The defendants allegedly failed to fund loans as promised, but nonetheless received commissions and other payments from lenders, sellers and buyers when the borrowing agreements closed.
The complaint further alleges that CFS obtained mortgage loans for unqualified or "unknowing" borrowers by, among other things: concealing true purchase prices of homes by submitting false purchase contracts; submitting bogus loan applications; concealing the fair market value of homes; using misleading appraisals; and submitting false bank statements and income documentation.
The alleged crimes resulted in foreclosures that cost lenders nearly $3.9 million, with potential losses in excess of $5.1 million, according to federal prosecutors.
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WorldWideWayne
1977 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 12:37:44 PM
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>>>The defendants allegedly failed to fund loans as promised, but nonetheless received commissions and other payments from lenders, sellers and buyers when the borrowing agreements closed.
What the heck does that mean? How do you get paid from a lender when the loan does not fund. |
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dkendall1979
8822 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 12:41:33 PM
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No wonder they stopped submitting loans recently...
This was my account! |
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Quicksilver
4478 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 12:41:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by WorldWideWayne
>>>The defendants allegedly failed to fund loans as promised, but nonetheless received commissions and other payments from lenders, sellers and buyers when the borrowing agreements closed.
What the heck does that mean? How do you get paid from a lender when the loan does not fund.
Probably meant not funded under "expected terms", bait and switch |
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KHufford
5316 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 12:43:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by WorldWideWayne
>>>The defendants allegedly failed to fund loans as promised, but nonetheless received commissions and other payments from lenders, sellers and buyers when the borrowing agreements closed.
What the heck does that mean? How do you get paid from a lender when the loan does not fund.
I was trying to figure that one out too...this is what happens when people who dont know about the business write these "subprime" articles.
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djorge44
1212 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 12:56:10 PM
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I do not mean to paint with a broad brush but all indicted seem to share 'spanish heritage'. I found that many 'latin' borrowers got screwed by 'latin' brokers. I have heard so many people tell me they figured they could trust them since they too spoke spanish.
****disclaimer, I am Irish - Portuguese and the Irish won out...white boy here**** |
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Hustler12
1103 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 1:14:43 PM
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| If they got paid on their loans that didn't fund, then they are smarter businesss people than I am. Do you know how rich I would be if I got paid on my deals that didn't fund? |
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sc312001
986 Posts |
Posted - 06/23/2008 : 1:58:52 PM
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I am just disgusted at some of the things that were going on out there.
Ruined it for the rest of us who have been honest. |
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brinahanson32
80 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 1:34:35 PM
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Ummmm..there is no money (or incentive) to be paid when loans do not fund. Much of what the FBI and other agencies are working on is purly speculation and from people who don't have any understanding of the business. What's funny is that none of those loans could have "funded" unless their were a team of people helping them through. I don't see any apprasiers, escrow officers, notaries, underwriting managers, QC dept. personal, bank reps, banks themselves or straw buyers being handcuffed (in this case). They want to pin it all on the loan officers! Well, I would call that "setting an example," more than not, that's what this case is about.
Make 4506/4506-t's mandatory. Oooooh look, we just solved that problem. The predators are the banks and they (and the gov't) need to be held accountable for their lack of structure and regulation. |
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brinahanson32
80 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 1:37:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by djorge44
I do not mean to paint with a broad brush but all indicted seem to share 'spanish heritage'. I found that many 'latin' borrowers got screwed by 'latin' brokers. I have heard so many people tell me they figured they could trust them since they too spoke spanish.
****disclaimer, I am Irish - Portuguese and the Irish won out...white boy here****
And by the way, they are Serian not Mexican, do you want to try again? |
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hpmfinancial
1451 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 1:40:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by brinahanson32
quote:
Originally posted by djorge44
I do not mean to paint with a broad brush but all indicted seem to share 'spanish heritage'. I found that many 'latin' borrowers got screwed by 'latin' brokers. I have heard so many people tell me they figured they could trust them since they too spoke spanish.
****disclaimer, I am Irish - Portuguese and the Irish won out...white boy here****
And by the way, they are Serian not Mexican, do you want to try again?
Can you please tell us why you think Rafael Santiago is Syrian? |
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brinahanson32
80 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 1:44:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hpmfinancial
quote:
Originally posted by brinahanson32
quote:
Originally posted by djorge44
I do not mean to paint with a broad brush but all indicted seem to share 'spanish heritage'. I found that many 'latin' borrowers got screwed by 'latin' brokers. I have heard so many people tell me they figured they could trust them since they too spoke spanish.
****disclaimer, I am Irish - Portuguese and the Irish won out...white boy here****
And by the way, they are Serian not Mexican, do you want to try again?
Can you please tell us why you think Rafael Santiago is Syrian?
The three in custody: Abner, Said and Aviva are Syrian. News flash! White people commit crimes too. |
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brinahanson32
80 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 1:45:04 PM
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| And Syrian's! |
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Boulderco
1087 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 1:45:05 PM
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| About 20 years ago there was a company in Denver that submitted loans to multiple lenders and had them all fund the same transaction. Last I read the principals in the company were on their way to prison for years of fun and recreation. |
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ccbank
1215 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 1:45:26 PM
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| The owners of the company are Persian. I don't know for sure. I was told by a broker familiar with the company owners. The whole family was in on it and are in jail. so I've heard. |
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mganovsky
1739 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 1:47:22 PM
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| djorge44, why do you think that Miami Florida is and always has been the mortgage fraud capital of the U.S. if not the world. |
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brinahanson32
80 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 1:47:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ccbank
The owners of the company are Persian. I don't know for sure. I was told by a broker familiar with the company owners. The whole family was in on it and are in jail. so I've heard.
Wrong! I worked there. They're Syrian |
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hpmfinancial
1451 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 1:55:40 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by brinahanson32
quote:
Originally posted by ccbank
The owners of the company are Persian. I don't know for sure. I was told by a broker familiar with the company owners. The whole family was in on it and are in jail. so I've heard.
Wrong! I worked there. They're Syrian
So the owners were Syrian or Persian, not everybody involved, is that what your trying to tell us? |
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mganovsky
1739 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 2:01:41 PM
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Since you worked there are you worried they may come after you next, because you do know they take all files originated from the company as well as computers and nail every one else involved or that did stated deals that were not accurate or that did any other deals that were not within compliance or were fraud was done.
Not trying to pick on you, but I had a friend that worked for a company a few years ago here in Florida and he quit becuase he saw folks committing fraud to include the processors. 2 years after he quit; Even though he really had nothing to do with the processor committing fraud on a couple of his deals he still spent 2 years in the big house. Because he originated the loans. They had a system where the LO originated the loan then turned it over to a processor who obtained all docs and the LO never saw the file again until closing, but that did not matter. The FBI said he was culpible and conspired to commit mortgage fraud because he should have known when he originated the loan that the folks would not qualify. |
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brinahanson32
80 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 2:33:32 PM
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No, my role was very small in the company. They did everything behind closed doors thus I had no knowledge of it and took "0" participation in it. The feds have already been here, but my work is legitimate. I quit the company quite a while ago and besides my leads came from a completely independent source that I myself generated. I had heard later on that some of them were going down the wrong path...you play with fire...
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FundStar14
688 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 2:45:04 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by brinahanson32
No, my role was very small in the company. They did everything behind closed doors thus I had no knowledge of it and took "0" participation in it. The feds have already been here, but my work is legitimate. I quit the company quite a while ago and besides my leads came from a completely independent source that I myself generated. I had heard later on that some of them were going down the wrong path...you play with fire...
I guess you should update your homepage on your profile. Looks like you might want to distance yourself... |
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brinahanson32
80 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 3:06:04 PM
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| Just did thanks |
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djorge44
1212 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 3:14:03 PM
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| Rafael Santiago, 39, of Riverside, and Chula Vista residents Angel Armendariz, 27, and Lucette Montane don't sound Syrian to me. |
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ritabradley01
2323 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 4:24:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by djorge44
I do not mean to paint with a broad brush but all indicted seem to share 'spanish heritage'. I found that many 'latin' borrowers got screwed by 'latin' brokers. I have heard so many people tell me they figured they could trust them since they too spoke spanish.
****disclaimer, I am Irish - Portuguese and the Irish won out...white boy here****
White people commit fraud everyday. |
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dkendall1979
8822 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 4:25:37 PM
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Are you saying black people aren't smart enough to commit fruad? That's racist!
quote:
Originally posted by ritabradley01
quote:
Originally posted by djorge44
I do not mean to paint with a broad brush but all indicted seem to share 'spanish heritage'. I found that many 'latin' borrowers got screwed by 'latin' brokers. I have heard so many people tell me they figured they could trust them since they too spoke spanish.
****disclaimer, I am Irish - Portuguese and the Irish won out...white boy here****
White people commit fraud everyday.
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djorge44
1212 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 4:54:43 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by dkendall1979
Are you saying black people aren't smart enough to commit fruad? That's racist!
Thats funny |
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lucky1s
3356 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 5:04:28 PM
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I left the first loan co. I worked for because I didnt want to compete with 200 LO's for a job when the feds came and padlocked the front door.
That was in May 2003 and they are still doing business. |
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Rene Viloria
1590 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 5:16:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by djorge44
I do not mean to paint with a broad brush but all indicted seem to share 'spanish heritage'. I found that many 'latin' borrowers got screwed by 'latin' brokers. I have heard so many people tell me they figured they could trust them since they too spoke spanish.
****disclaimer, I am Irish - Portuguese and the Irish won out...white boy here****
2008 and a stupid comment like this, black and white brokers do not commit fraud only Latin people right... |
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ccbank
1215 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 5:24:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by djorge44
I do not mean to paint with a broad brush but all indicted seem to share 'spanish heritage'. I found that many 'latin' borrowers got screwed by 'latin' brokers. I have heard so many people tell me they figured they could trust them since they too spoke spanish.
****disclaimer, I am Irish - Portuguese and the Irish won out...white boy here****
That is the dumbest statement I ever read. You are an IDIOT! |
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dkendall1979
8822 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 5:27:00 PM
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Since my wife is Mexican, will my daughter commit fruad or just think very hard about it?
quote:
Originally posted by Rene Viloria
quote:
Originally posted by djorge44
I do not mean to paint with a broad brush but all indicted seem to share 'spanish heritage'. I found that many 'latin' borrowers got screwed by 'latin' brokers. I have heard so many people tell me they figured they could trust them since they too spoke spanish.
****disclaimer, I am Irish - Portuguese and the Irish won out...white boy here****
2008 and a stupid comment like this, black and white brokers do not commit fraud only Latin people right...
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hpmfinancial
1451 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 5:29:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Rene Viloria
quote:
Originally posted by djorge44
I do not mean to paint with a broad brush but all indicted seem to share 'spanish heritage'. I found that many 'latin' borrowers got screwed by 'latin' brokers. I have heard so many people tell me they figured they could trust them since they too spoke spanish.
****disclaimer, I am Irish - Portuguese and the Irish won out...white boy here****
2008 and a stupid comment like this, black and white brokers do not commit fraud only Latin people right...
He never said that black and white brokers don't commit fraud. He said that he has noticed that many latin people have been screwed by other latin people as bad people got good people to trust them since they spoke spanish.
When I did loans I had many hispanic borrowers that were in horrible situations because they previously worked with someone simply because they spoke Spanish. I do believe that there are bad seeds in every race, but many innocent borrowers got screwed because they felt comfortable with someone not because they were great loan officers, simply because they spoke Spanish. |
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plo4aces
5 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 5:32:06 PM
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my sombrero off to you Carlos.
Priscilla Lopez (by marriage) |
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djorge44
1212 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 5:33:21 PM
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"
2008 and a stupid comment like this, black and white brokers do not commit fraud only Latin people right..."
Rene, that's not what I said, I said in my experience in dealing with Spanish clients, I have found that many got into loans they did not understand or flat out got taken advantage of. When speaking with them, I would say 90% have said something along these lines, "I trusted him because he spoke Spanish, I didn't think I would get taken advantage of".
I did not mention Fraud being committed by them, I said they got screwed. Just last week I talked to the 700 low LTV borrower that has a 3 year PPP and a 7.5% interest rate. Their credit is perfect, full doc etc...problem is they have 2+ years on a PPP. they trusted the broker because he spoke Spanish just like them, pretty much word for word |
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pgostin
57 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 5:34:14 PM
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| Everyone, of course black and white people commit fraud. But yes, the statement is correct that hispanic people often absolutely rape their own people financially. I have had this discussion with hispanic people and they have agreed with me. |
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hpmfinancial
1451 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 5:34:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by djorge44
"
2008 and a stupid comment like this, black and white brokers do not commit fraud only Latin people right..."
Rene, that's not what I said, I said in my experience in dealing with Spanish clients, I have found that many got into loans they did not understand or flat out got taken advantage of. When speaking with them, I would say 90% have said something along these lines, "I trusted him because he spoke Spanish, I didn't think I would get taken advantage of".
I did not mention Fraud being committed by them, I said they got screwed. Just last week I talked to the 700 low LTV borrower that has a 3 year PPP and a 7.5% interest rate. Their credit is perfect, full doc etc...problem is they have 2+ years on a PPP. they trusted the broker because he spoke Spanish just like them, pretty much word for word
Very well said. |
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Rene Viloria
1590 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 5:41:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by djorge44
"
2008 and a stupid comment like this, black and white brokers do not commit fraud only Latin people right..."
Rene, that's not what I said, I said in my experience in dealing with Spanish clients, I have found that many got into loans they did not understand or flat out got taken advantage of. When speaking with them, I would say 90% have said something along these lines, "I trusted him because he spoke Spanish, I didn't think I would get taken advantage of".
I did not mention Fraud being committed by them, I said they got screwed. Just last week I talked to the 700 low LTV borrower that has a 3 year PPP and a 7.5% interest rate. Their credit is perfect, full doc etc...problem is they have 2+ years on a PPP. they trusted the broker because he spoke Spanish just like them, pretty much word for word
Now that you clarify i do agree with you, that is why lenders hate Miami and Broward, but a lot of Hispanics down here are super greedy and irresponsible, and then when they can not make the payments out of their initial greed, they love to blame the brokers and play the victims... For example i usually gave them 3 options they would always take the riskier one...Very few took the fix rate option.People have to be accountable as well.
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darkstar
16014 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 5:44:24 PM
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| I'm Jewish, we pay others to commit it for us! ;-) |
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ccbank
1215 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 5:45:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by djorge44
"
2008 and a stupid comment like this, black and white brokers do not commit fraud only Latin people right..."
Rene, that's not what I said, I said in my experience in dealing with Spanish clients, I have found that many got into loans they did not understand or flat out got taken advantage of. When speaking with them, I would say 90% have said something along these lines, "I trusted him because he spoke Spanish, I didn't think I would get taken advantage of".
I did not mention Fraud being committed by them, I said they got screwed. Just last week I talked to the 700 low LTV borrower that has a 3 year PPP and a 7.5% interest rate. Their credit is perfect, full doc etc...problem is they have 2+ years on a PPP. they trusted the broker because he spoke Spanish just like them, pretty much word for word
Hispanics your only clientle? I can the same thing about Chinese, Japanese, Australians, Syrians, African Americans, and yes Irish too. There is not only one race that commits fraud. No matter how you say it, it makes you sound narrow minded, inexperienced, uncultured, and un educated. Sorry for the insult if that was not your intention. |
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ML
2229 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 5:46:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dkendall1979
Since my wife is Mexican, will my daughter commit fruad or just think very hard about it?
quote:
Originally posted by Rene Viloria
quote:
Originally posted by djorge44
I do not mean to paint with a broad brush but all indicted seem to share 'spanish heritage'. I found that many 'latin' borrowers got screwed by 'latin' brokers. I have heard so many people tell me they figured they could trust them since they too spoke spanish.
****disclaimer, I am Irish - Portuguese and the Irish won out...white boy here****
2008 and a stupid comment like this, black and white brokers do not commit fraud only Latin people right...
She will nag her husband to death until HE does! |
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ccbank
1215 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 5:51:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ccbank
quote:
Originally posted by djorge44
"
2008 and a stupid comment like this, black and white brokers do not commit fraud only Latin people right..."
Rene, that's not what I said, I said in my experience in dealing with Spanish clients, I have found that many got into loans they did not understand or flat out got taken advantage of. When speaking with them, I would say 90% have said something along these lines, "I trusted him because he spoke Spanish, I didn't think I would get taken advantage of".
I did not mention Fraud being committed by them, I said they got screwed. Just last week I talked to the 700 low LTV borrower that has a 3 year PPP and a 7.5% interest rate. Their credit is perfect, full doc etc...problem is they have 2+ years on a PPP. they trusted the broker because he spoke Spanish just like them, pretty much word for word
Hispanics your only clientle? I can the same thing about Chinese, Japanese, Australians, Syrians, African Americans, and yes Irish too. There is not only one race that commits fraud. People like to do business with others of their own race. It's inate in all of us to do that. The reasoning being that the person can relate well to their situation being of the same race. Ufortunately, they end up getting screwed for being trustworthy and naive. And for those unscrupulous charlatans out their, it's all about money. So,no matter how you say it, it makes you sound narrow minded, inexperienced, uncultured, and un educated. Sorry for the insult if that was not your intention.
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Travis Du Bois
588 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 5:52:35 PM
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I have seen and heard what dgeorge44 is saying but not only for hispanic but asian as well. Just because the LO spoke the borrowers 1st langage and it was not engrish. People trusted the LO just because they spoke their native language not because they were giving them the best deal. Hispanic, Japanese, Cantonese, Chinese, Portugese, dirtyknese did not matter. There are pleanty of people who got raw deals for trusting a native speaker of their laguage and not doing their own research. Just because they have a hard time understanding and speaking engrish is the only reason I can think.
Oh I'm full of jokes... |
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pgostin
57 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 6:03:23 PM
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Travis, you are correct about the same thing happening to other races as well. The ability to understand and speak English effectively translates into getting screwed far less often.
As far as the loan fraud issue, borrowers who have non-traditional means of bringing in income that can't be used on an application certainly have fraud occur on their loans if they're getting them. And it just so happens that in many parts of NJ where I live, many hispanic people fall into that category. |
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Boulderco
1087 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 6:13:29 PM
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| Hey, can we get back to the original reason for this thread, which is gloating and telling mortgage evil doers that it is only a matter of time before their muffled screams are drowned out by the scornful laughter of their cellblock mates? And I use the word "mates" in the most literal sense. |
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ccbank
1215 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 6:19:59 PM
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| Please explain what you mean by non traditional. Housekeeping, Dishwasher, maintenance personal, mechanic, waiter, migrant worker, hotel pbx operator, nanny, fast order cook. Unless the person was or is a trust fund baby or rich would not have any one of those jobs. Since 10% of the population is rich then those that had to work to make a living or came from meager economic bacgrounds to support their education or just make a decent living had/have one of these jobs. I worked at the Waldorf Astoria as a butler while going to night school. My peers were from 10 different countries as least. Those jobs are by far the most traditional ones. Many successful people today started in one of those jobs, picking cotton too. What is non traditional job? |
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pgostin
57 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 6:21:49 PM
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| No problem, I meant that they get paid in cash that can't be documented. All immigrants when they come over have to do what they have to do to make it. |
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bmoran
1089 Posts |
Posted - 06/24/2008 : 8:39:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by darkstar
I'm Jewish, we pay others to commit it for us! ;-)
LOL
I am Italian "I dunt no anytin about no fraud" |
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