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velecico
3624 Posts |
 Posted - 05/22/2008 : 09:35:27 AM
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So if you went to the job site of your new home development and saw mostly Mexicans building your home , would you offer the builder double the money so he only employ documented union workers ?
better , yet if you are the Realtor will you refuse that listing because the home was most likely built by undocumented workers , if you are broker , will you not take the loan for a property that was built by undocumeted workers , the sales price and loan amount are only less because the cost to build is less , would your clients that are already at a 50% ratio now qualify if the home cost 30 to 40% more ?
For all those on their soap box about illegals , what would you do ? |
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nowbroker
1220 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 09:37:29 AM
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Buy an existing home?  |
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benjamin
1815 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 09:49:07 AM
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| Call the INS. They can't seem to find any illegals. |
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EMScommercial
5050 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 10:06:49 AM
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i love it when people like to argue....
'illegals pick the fruit'... 'illegals build the homes'.... blah blah....
they are illegal... and now alot of them are causing big problems in the us.... killing people and running back to their home country... at least once a month there is a deadly car accident that an illegal was involved in.... who pays for that?? not the illegal....
then there are the young women that time their entry into america as to when they are just about to have their water break (going into labor).... so that the american hospital has to deliver the baby.... this happened in nc a few years ago.... there were complications with the birth and can you believe that the illegal alien who only came into the states weeks earlier found an ambulance chasing attorney and sued the hospital!?!?!?..... i could NOT believe it and still can't!...
what would make this much better? they should become documented like the rest of us and ATTEMPT to become citizens.... just like with our profession, a few bad apples make the whole barrel smell bad!..... i have had many good friends, employees and associates who would be considered 'immigrants'..... they work - probably - harder than anyone i know.... great people..... |
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yldspread
440 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 10:10:38 AM
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| Why? What would YOU do? We already know the answers.... My great city, the best city in the world was built by immigrants, only they were Irish and Italian. Who cares if they are legal or not? When you got to be concerned is when large sums of money are been moved from one country to another (people financing extremist groups) I ain't worried about mexicans building homes or cleaning toilets.... |
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velecico
3624 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 10:27:56 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by yldspread
Why? What would YOU do? We already know the answers.... My great city, the best city in the world was built by immigrants, only they were Irish and Italian. Who cares if they are legal or not? When you got to be concerned is when large sums of money are been moved from one country to another (people financing extremist groups) I ain't worried about mexicans building homes or cleaning toilets....
Is that your real name ? 100 fires ? |
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rtrefflich
2655 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 10:39:04 AM
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Illegals have good and bad, they bring cheap laber and higher profits but they can add to the tax burden by taking it up in social services. There are many hard working people who only want the same thing for themselves as you have for your family that they cannot get because of their situation. Just think about it, if you were in another country and couldn't find food what would you do?
Trust me, if they were living better off in their home country then they did here they would probably stay there.
If they wanted to do something they would go after the employeers of these people. |
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yldspread
440 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 11:07:15 AM
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Yeah, Cienfuegos, family originally from Corpus Christi,Texas. Mexican and Cuban Immigrants.
quote:
Originally posted by velecico
quote:
Originally posted by yldspread
Why? What would YOU do? We already know the answers.... My great city, the best city in the world was built by immigrants, only they were Irish and Italian. Who cares if they are legal or not? When you got to be concerned is when large sums of money are been moved from one country to another (people financing extremist groups) I ain't worried about mexicans building homes or cleaning toilets....
Is that your real name ? 100 fires ?
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rtrefflich
2655 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 11:11:49 AM
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It is a very common name
quote:
Originally posted by velecico
quote:
Originally posted by yldspread
Why? What would YOU do? We already know the answers.... My great city, the best city in the world was built by immigrants, only they were Irish and Italian. Who cares if they are legal or not? When you got to be concerned is when large sums of money are been moved from one country to another (people financing extremist groups) I ain't worried about mexicans building homes or cleaning toilets....
Is that your real name ? 100 fires ?
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lunarhamster
3417 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 11:24:46 AM
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If they are here and working they need to pay taxes just like the rest of us. No free health care, no welfare.
We spend millions of dollars on all the babies born here, they fill up our jails, we need to crack down big time. |
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toddblue
2179 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 11:38:39 AM
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If you were to boycott everything illegals produce, you would not have a home and nothing to eat. Our yards would look like crap and our children would not learn Spanish as a second language from their nannies. Our tables would not be bussed and trash would not be emptied.
Fact is, the genie is out of the bottle. Our immigration policy has been broken for decades and there is no quick fix. |
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velecico
3624 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 11:45:01 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by toddblue
If you were to boycott everything illegals produce, you would not have a home and nothing to eat. Our yards would look like crap and our children would not learn Spanish as a second language from their nannies. Our tables would not be bussed and trash would not be emptied.
Fact is, the genie is out of the bottle. Our immigration policy has been broken for decades and there is no quick fix.
Well said , its just a step up from slavery , remember 100 years ago you did not have a problem simply because of the job pool |
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velecico
3624 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 11:48:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by lunarhamster
If they are here and working they need to pay taxes just like the rest of us. No free health care, no welfare.
We spend millions of dollars on all the babies born here, they fill up our jails, we need to crack down big time.
Your are igorant to the fact that many prisons , especially Federal produce moe revenue than the cost , many small towms primary employer and now prisons and cheap prison labor is the new form of slavery , kid gets 10 years for selling a vile of crack , the guy laundering the money that facilitates the whole thing is sipping Margaritas or gets 12 months in club fed when caught |
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mantixmortgage
2714 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 11:48:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by EMScommercial
at least once a month there is a deadly car accident that an illegal was involved in.... who pays for that?? not the illegal....
then there are the young women that time their entry into america as to when they are just about to have their water break (going into labor).... so that the american hospital has to deliver the baby....
because american citizens never get in car accidents...
and americans who dont have health care or means to pay for childbirth dont deliver babies in hospitals all the time.. |
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mojojojo_1
777 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 11:53:07 AM
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| unemployment at record lows and people said they were stealing jobs... |
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velecico
3624 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 11:53:40 AM
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I bet the Jews send a lot more than 10B to Israel , **** just Hollyweird alone must be good for 5B , does that bother you than a some Mexixcan sending money so his mom and dad or kids can eat or have a roof over the heads |
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lunarhamster
3417 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 11:57:50 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by velecico
quote:
Originally posted by lunarhamster
If they are here and working they need to pay taxes just like the rest of us. No free health care, no welfare.
We spend millions of dollars on all the babies born here, they fill up our jails, we need to crack down big time.
Your are igorant to the fact that many prisons , especially Federal produce moe revenue than the cost , many small towms primary employer and now prisons and cheap prison labor is the new form of slavery , kid gets 10 years for selling a vile of crack , the guy laundering the money that facilitates the whole thing is sipping Margaritas or gets 12 months in club fed when caught
I'm not "igorant" not no moe anyhow. |
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homer5
356 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 1:12:14 PM
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It's about the rule of law. One set of laws for ALL of the people with NO ONE above the law. This is one of the principles this country was founded.
Economics of the issue is secondary to the rule of law.
Further, the economics of the situation indicate a very drastic net cost for illegal alien presence.
As far as the builder question goes, I would document via video and other means the illegal workers constructing the home and turn both the builder and illegal aliens into ICE.
There is no justification for illegal immigration no matter how the open borders bunch try to do so. There has been no greater injustice to the middle class economically than illegal immigration.
Illegal aliens steal American jobs and suppress wages for middle America. The taxpayer has to pick up the cost of free health care and education costs. I could go on and on. |
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eryan2369
770 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 1:16:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by velecico
So if you went to the job site of your new home development and saw mostly Mexicans building your home , would you offer the builder double the money so he only employ documented union workers ?
better , yet if you are the Realtor will you refuse that listing because the home was most likely built by undocumented workers , if you are broker , will you not take the loan for a property that was built by undocumeted workers , the sales price and loan amount are only less because the cost to build is less , would your clients that are already at a 50% ratio now qualify if the home cost 30 to 40% more ?
For all those on their soap box about illegals , what would you do ?
Perhaps, just maybe, I would make up for loosing that/those loan(s) by the increase in volume of loans due to more people, legal people, being able to find work at a decent wage and also the entire society not having to carry the burden of taxes, school, healthcare, etc. for the millions of illegals...
So if you dont mind, I like my soapbox right where it is thank you  |
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homer5
356 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 1:17:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mojojojo_1
unemployment at record lows and people said they were stealing jobs...
You need to educate yourself on the cooking of government numbers. You can start here http://tinyurl.com/6flkdd .
If unemployment were measured by old standards, we'd be running around 10% if not more. The government has sanctioned illegal labor on behalf of their big business donors or their lobbyist donors. It shouldn't be a surprise that they have cooked the numbers to hide the real affects of illegal immigration.
AS far as stealing jobs go, you need to talk to some of my contractor friends who have lost work and businesses to illegal employers. |
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mojojojo_1
777 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 1:22:07 PM
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| better then outsourcing, insourcing the labor at least we collect sales tax |
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eryan2369
770 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 1:22:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by rtrefflich
Illegals have good and bad, they bring cheap laber and higher profits but they can add to the tax burden by taking it up in social services. There are many hard working people who only want the same thing for themselves as you have for your family that they cannot get because of their situation. Just think about it, if you were in another country and couldn't find food what would you do?
Trust me, if they were living better off in their home country then they did here they would probably stay there.
If they wanted to do something they would go after the employeers of these people.
They live poor in their own country and have nothing because of the oppression of the upper society and government...but as long as they have no real motivation to change that they wont. They need a revolution in Mexico, just like we had a revolution against oppression here to EARN our right to a free and equal opportunity society...
So as long as we keep facilitating them to just run jump and swim here to solve their problems they will not do anything in their own country to make it better there. We cut off the jobs here we cut off the flow of illegals, and maybe, that gives them incentive to do something about the conditions in their own country instead of coming here illegally. |
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homer5
356 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 1:35:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mojojojo_1
better then outsourcing, insourcing the labor at least we collect sales tax
How is it better? It's still a cost in addition to losing a job. With outsourcing, we lose the job but there is no social cost. |
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eryan2369
770 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 1:37:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by homer5
quote:
Originally posted by mojojojo_1
unemployment at record lows and people said they were stealing jobs...
You need to educate yourself on the cooking of government numbers. You can start here http://tinyurl.com/6flkdd .
If unemployment were measured by old standards, we'd be running around 10% if not more. The government has sanctioned illegal labor on behalf of their big business donors or their lobbyist donors. It shouldn't be a surprise that they have cooked the numbers to hide the real affects of illegal immigration.
AS far as stealing jobs go, you need to talk to some of my contractor friends who have lost work and businesses to illegal employers.
Homer has it right...any debate is pretty compelling when you only look at one side of the facts, especially when the facts are twisted by our own government looking out for lobby interest, as they usually if not always are.
The fact is that an economy is a huge circle of money, goods and services provided for a cost and people earning a wage to produce those goods and services, and spending that money on other goods and services. Sure the argument is made that illegals provide "cheap labor" and do the jobs that "no one wants to do"...this is BS, if we had no illegals sure, it would cost more money for houses, crops to be picked, toilets to be cleaned etc...but I believe there are plenty of able bodied Americans that would be willing to do these jobs, just not willing to do them for shi**y pay. So that would force employers to pay a higher wage to legal workers, which would make goods more expensive...theres your argument from the blind side...heres the rest of the story: those legal workers, making a decent wage, reduce unemployment and make a higher wage of legal earnings...they pay taxes and those wages go back into the economy in the form of goods and services they in turn buy with their decent wage...so other industrys make more money, are able to pay higher wages and employ more people, etc, etc, etc....the big circle of economy...
Illegals break the circle of economy. By doing jobs at a low wage they may make it cheaper to buy a head of lettuce, but by not paying income tax, causing millions of dollars in loss in traffic accidents, burdening the legal citizens with their schooling and healthcare costs etc, they take far more out of the system than they put in. Especially when they send a huge chunk of their earnings out of the country and do not spend it on goods and services here...
So if your ignorant enough to believe that the U.S. would fall apart without illegals you need to learn how an economy works. |
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toddblue
2179 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 1:43:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by eryan2369
quote:
Originally posted by rtrefflich
Illegals have good and bad, they bring cheap laber and higher profits but they can add to the tax burden by taking it up in social services. There are many hard working people who only want the same thing for themselves as you have for your family that they cannot get because of their situation. Just think about it, if you were in another country and couldn't find food what would you do?
Trust me, if they were living better off in their home country then they did here they would probably stay there.
If they wanted to do something they would go after the employeers of these people.
They live poor in their own country and have nothing because of the oppression of the upper society and government...but as long as they have no real motivation to change that they wont. They need a revolution in Mexico, just like we had a revolution against oppression here to EARN our right to a free and equal opportunity society...
So as long as we keep facilitating them to just run jump and swim here to solve their problems they will not do anything in their own country to make it better there. We cut off the jobs here we cut off the flow of illegals, and maybe, that gives them incentive to do something about the conditions in their own country instead of coming here illegally.
I live in New Mexico, my wife is from Mexico. We have a ranch in San Juanito, Chihuahua (Near the Copper Canyon). I'm all too aware of the issues of immigration and the problems faced by Mexican Nationals.
We spend time in Juarez (accross the border from El Paso) visiting her family on a regular basis. If your not up to speed, Juarez is one of the violent cities in existence. The corruption is rampant from the cop on the street to the highest government officials. Leaving Mexico for the hope of a better life in the US is enough to make any man, or woman, break a law to come here.
No fence, no amount of technology, and no military presence is going to stop the tidal wave of humanity from pressing into our country.
You mention a revolution to change Mexico, and you are correct. It would take a change of this magnitude to clean out the current system in that country. However, it is easier for Mexicans to create a revolution by slowly taking control over the US instead of taking control over their country.
Until we can find a way to help Mexico become a stronger and more responsible neighbor to our south, the US will always be more attractive to those individuals wanting to escape poverty and corruption and create a better life for themselves and their families.
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homer5
356 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 1:48:48 PM
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| We are the greatest country on the face of the earth. We can close the border if the will exists. |
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eryan2369
770 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 1:53:06 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by toddblue
quote:
Originally posted by eryan2369
quote:
Originally posted by rtrefflich
Illegals have good and bad, they bring cheap laber and higher profits but they can add to the tax burden by taking it up in social services. There are many hard working people who only want the same thing for themselves as you have for your family that they cannot get because of their situation. Just think about it, if you were in another country and couldn't find food what would you do?
Trust me, if they were living better off in their home country then they did here they would probably stay there.
If they wanted to do something they would go after the employeers of these people.
They live poor in their own country and have nothing because of the oppression of the upper society and government...but as long as they have no real motivation to change that they wont. They need a revolution in Mexico, just like we had a revolution against oppression here to EARN our right to a free and equal opportunity society...
So as long as we keep facilitating them to just run jump and swim here to solve their problems they will not do anything in their own country to make it better there. We cut off the jobs here we cut off the flow of illegals, and maybe, that gives them incentive to do something about the conditions in their own country instead of coming here illegally.
I live in New Mexico, my wife is from Mexico. We have a ranch in San Juanito, Chihuahua (Near the Copper Canyon). I'm all too aware of the issues of immigration and the problems faced by Mexican Nationals.
We spend time in Juarez (accross the border from El Paso) visiting her family on a regular basis. If your not up to speed, Juarez is one of the violent cities in existence. The corruption is rampant from the cop on the street to the highest government officials. Leaving Mexico for the hope of a better life in the US is enough to make any man, or woman, break a law to come here.
No fence, no amount of technology, and no military presence is going to stop the tidal wave of humanity from pressing into our country.
You mention a revolution to change Mexico, and you are correct. It would take a change of this magnitude to clean out the current system in that country. However, it is easier for Mexicans to create a revolution by slowly taking control over the US instead of taking control over their country.
Until we can find a way to help Mexico become a stronger and more responsible neighbor to our south, the US will always be more attractive to those individuals wanting to escape poverty and corruption and create a better life for themselves and their families.
But you see the solution is simple. You say "No fence, no amount of technology, and no military presence is going to stop the tidal wave of humanity from pressing into our country."...we dont need any of that. All that is neccessary is to take away the jobs. If you actually make it unbearable for employers to hire illegals, where the penalties are far too steep to commit the crime, like tens of thousands of dollar penalties per occurance and even being shut down if you have too many infractions...then employers would stop hiring illegals. No jobs here, no money here, no free schools, no free healthcare, etc...you take away the incentive to come and they stop comming. I guarantee you we stop the jobs, free schooling, free healthcare, etc then the number of mexican illegals would drastically reduce, im talking about to a fraction of what they are now. And many that are here illegally now would go back home to their families there.
"However, it is easier for Mexicans to create a revolution by slowly taking control over the US instead of taking control over their country."...my point exactly, we have to turn off the incentives here to give them incentive to do what needs to be done in their own country....no fence required!
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eryan2369
770 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 1:57:16 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by homer5
We are the greatest country on the face of the earth. We can close the border if the will exists.
No need to close the border. Take away the jobs and benefits to illegals here and the "tidal wave" would not only become a leaky faucet...but the tidal wave would likely even reverse and many would return to mexico. |
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homer5
356 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 1:58:57 PM
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| eryan, you are so correct. |
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toddblue
2179 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 2:05:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by homer5
We are the greatest country on the face of the earth. We can close the border if the will exists.
You're up in Connecticut. That's easy to say until you've experienced the border first hand. We can't close a border in a war zone between Iraq and Iran, or Afghanistan and Pakistan. And it's not lack of will, technology or military expertise. It's such a great expanse.
The southern US border is huge and desolate. It would take a defense on the scale of the Great Wall of China continuously manned in order to stop the land invasion. Then we still have the coastlines and airspace to deal with.
Anyone that truly thinks we can seal the border is buying into a dream that will never become a reality. Not that we shouldn't try yo patrol the border, but there has to be a better way. |
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jjacovo
100 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 2:34:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by eryan2369
quote:
Originally posted by rtrefflich
Illegals have good and bad, they bring cheap laber and higher profits but they can add to the tax burden by taking it up in social services. There are many hard working people who only want the same thing for themselves as you have for your family that they cannot get because of their situation. Just think about it, if you were in another country and couldn't find food what would you do?
Trust me, if they were living better off in their home country then they did here they would probably stay there.
If they wanted to do something they would go after the employeers of these people.
They live poor in their own country and have nothing because of the oppression of the upper society and government...but as long as they have no real motivation to change that they wont. They need a revolution in Mexico, just like we had a revolution against oppression here to EARN our right to a free and equal opportunity society...
So as long as we keep facilitating them to just run jump and swim here to solve their problems they will not do anything in their own country to make it better there. We cut off the jobs here we cut off the flow of illegals, and maybe, that gives them incentive to do something about the conditions in their own country instead of coming here illegally.
Good point. we should apply this philosophy to welfare recipients whom are capable of working. It's called "Tough Love" |
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samwillsonbiz
194 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 2:35:14 PM
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Convicted criminals usually work for cheaper pay.
How would everyone on this board feel if (insert criminal type here... robber, druggie, hooker) were building your home?
Teens and children usually work for cheaper pay.
How would everyone on this board feel if (insert age below 17 and gender here) were building your home?
Just because it is cheap, does not make it right.
I don't know exactly where I stand on what should be done with Illegals, and the situation. However I don't think we should be thanking them for being cheap labor. |
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kato
119 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 2:59:43 PM
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| I'm a Broker, I don't get paid a cent for minding other peoples business. I got my hands full the way things are in the mortgage market to get into some type of vigilante crap. I just wanna get paid in cash or kind!...so go sell a loan or something, let the other guys do their job! |
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rtrefflich
2655 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 3:02:03 PM
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Obviously you don't understand the history of the America's enough to grasp why this country is wealthy and others are not. It is partially to do with the corruptness of the political leaders, but it also has a lot to do with American companies going down to Central and South America and taking abuse of the natural resources and labor and leaving the natives with nothing.
There is a wonderful book called The Banana Wars which focuses on the root of this problem, why is it that these leaders are so corrupt, because American politians and business owners have made them that way. In order for us to get good fruit take a look at the United Fruit Company and Central America. There are tons of examples which show that we have benefited far more off of them than they have benefited off of us.
It is partially the leaders fault, but moreso our fault. When a farmer in Mexico makes enough to feed himself and his village and then our US company goes in and undercuts the price that he is selling his food for, the farmer is then left out of a job. When a Mexican company is selling widgets and WalMart comes in and sells them for less, that person is left unemployed. There are tons of reasons why, but the reality is we need these people here to do menial jobs, I'll bet you rely on them everyday for things that you use, even if you don't realize it and it is a lot more compliated than saying, just send them all back.
quote:
Originally posted by eryan2369
quote:
Originally posted by rtrefflich
Illegals have good and bad, they bring cheap laber and higher profits but they can add to the tax burden by taking it up in social services. There are many hard working people who only want the same thing for themselves as you have for your family that they cannot get because of their situation. Just think about it, if you were in another country and couldn't find food what would you do?
Trust me, if they were living better off in their home country then they did here they would probably stay there.
If they wanted to do something they would go after the employeers of these people.
They live poor in their own country and have nothing because of the oppression of the upper society and government...but as long as they have no real motivation to change that they wont. They need a revolution in Mexico, just like we had a revolution against oppression here to EARN our right to a free and equal opportunity society...
So as long as we keep facilitating them to just run jump and swim here to solve their problems they will not do anything in their own country to make it better there. We cut off the jobs here we cut off the flow of illegals, and maybe, that gives them incentive to do something about the conditions in their own country instead of coming here illegally.
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djorge44
1337 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 3:20:30 PM
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Richard, First off, America is great because people like the Rockefellers understood building a middle class. The so called leaders of South and Central America took all the money for themselves. It is not our responsibility to build a middle class in another country, it is THAT countries own responsibility. We are lucky to have had our super wealthy know that building a middle class was good for them.
Regarding illegal immigration, the solution is fairly simple, cut out the job market from the employer. Last year or the year before the IRS was going to send out letters to employers letting them know about FALSE social security numbers being used by their employees. This was stopped by a Federal Judge and not heard from since.
All you need to do is send out those letters letting the employer know they have 30 days to submit the correct social # for that employee. Any employee on the rolls that does not have a correct soc # would be a 10K fine per week per illegal employee.
Make the hiring process more complete, you can not start a job until you are cleared by the IRS. This eliminated illegals trying to jump from job to job. Make it hard to find work and they will leave.
This eliminates all illegals working in the traditional work force overnight. Then all you have to do is look at non-traditional jobs, landscaping, construction, etc....
The fact is that the US used to pick and chose whom they let in the country. We do not need day laborers to drive down the wage rate. We need engineers and scientists and doctors.
If you do not have a skill that we need, then you may not get chosed to become an American.
I know that is harsh but the responsibility of American leaders is to help keep America strong. Illegal imigration is killing us slowly. We are becoming the Roman Empire and unless we do serious things to change it soon, we are in trouble.
I am sure some liberals and others will call him a Fascist but read Pat Buchanon, he talks about the death of America from within.
For all the illegals that Mexico sends here we should charge them in oil. And for people who think Mexico doesn't send them here, why do they guard their southern border to keep Guatemalans out but not guard their northern border.
They know exactly what they are doing, exporting their problems to us.
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homer5
356 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 3:22:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by toddblue
quote:
Originally posted by homer5
We are the greatest country on the face of the earth. We can close the border if the will exists.
You're up in Connecticut. That's easy to say until you've experienced the border first hand. We can't close a border in a war zone between Iraq and Iran, or Afghanistan and Pakistan. And it's not lack of will, technology or military expertise. It's such a great expanse.
The southern US border is huge and desolate. It would take a defense on the scale of the Great Wall of China continuously manned in order to stop the land invasion. Then we still have the coastlines and airspace to deal with.
Anyone that truly thinks we can seal the border is buying into a dream that will never become a reality. Not that we shouldn't try yo patrol the border, but there has to be a better way.
Todd I've never been to the border but I have read quite a bit about it. I'm not discounting the task of securing the area. However, if need be and with the will, I still maintain that the United States is very capable of the task at hand.
However, as eryan pointed out, the most effective way to deal with the problem is through attrition by enforcement of immigration laws and strict enforcement against employers, sanctuary cities or any government or private entity that fosters the illegal immigration process. Add to that the total elimination of all social benefits, such as health care (except extreme life threatening emergencies) and free education benefits. While we are at it, the 14th Amendment should be re-examined and properly interpreted to eliminate the anchor baby phenomenon. Essentially, as eryan said, eliminate any and all incentives that illegal aliens come here for.
And yes I am up in Connecticut, Danbury CT to be precise. We are the illegal immigration flashpoint of CT. I see first hand, the size and scope of the issue.
Lack of will is the issue. Even the war examples illustrate my point. Is there any doubt in your mind that we could make Iran an inhabitable piece of real estate for years to come if we so chose to? If we could do that, we can certainly seal those borders as well. The will to do so isn't there when weighing other factors. None the less, it is a matter of will.
The lack of will with regard to illegal immigration comes from a corrupt political system that has disenfranchised it's middle class. Half of the political equation lacks the will to properly deal with the problem in the interests of their big business donors. The other half trades middle class interests for the money they receive from open borders lobbyist such as LaRaza (The Race). Both halves sell out the middle class and advocate for illegal labor for money and power. Due to these forces, there is a total lack of will to fix the problem.
There are few things that have had the massive negative impact on our middle class that illegal immigration has had. It is truly criminal what these politicians on both sides of the aisle are doing to us.
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djorge44
1337 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 3:24:51 PM
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Oh, and regarding illegals who commit crimes, they should not be housed in American prisons. We should export them and save ourselves money. If it was known that if you committ a crime in America you would do your time in China, or Romania, or Camaroon criminals would be far less inclined to come here and committ crimes.
It would be far cheaper too, China has a huge prison population. I am sure we would have less illegal criminals if when caught they were send to Chinese or Russian prisons. |
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velecico
3624 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 3:38:38 PM
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No one from Alabama is allowed an opinion on my thread , 2/3 of Alabama would vote for slavery to come back if they could |
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rhelali
193 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 3:40:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by nowbroker
Buy an existing home?
i agree |
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eryan2369
770 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 3:44:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by homer5
quote:
Originally posted by toddblue
[quote]Originally posted by homer5
We are the greatest country on the face of the earth. We can close the border if the will exists.
The lack of will with regard to illegal immigration comes from a corrupt political system that has disenfranchised it's middle class. Half of the political equation lacks the will to properly deal with the problem in the interests of their big business donors. The other half trades middle class interests for the money they receive from open borders lobbyist such as LaRaza (The Race). Both halves sell out the middle class and advocate for illegal labor for money and power. Due to these forces, there is a total lack of will to fix the problem.
There are few things that have had the massive negative impact on our middle class that illegal immigration has had. It is truly criminal what these politicians on both sides of the aisle are doing to us.
Stop! Everybody pay attention to this for a moment...
It drives me crazy when people fuss and fight and make a huge deal when the solution is so simple and looking them right in the face...but they are too blind to see it.
The fundamental issue causing the VAST majority of our problems in the US comes down to one simple solution. Its like the big purple elephant in the room that no one chooses to aknowledge...Its campaign finance.
Our government, which is suppose to be a government of the people, for the people, is a government of the rich, for the highest bidder. Our politicians are bought and sold like cattle at auction! Imagine what would happen if our legislators actually legislated for the best interest of the hundreds of millions of middle and lower classes (the masses), rather than legislating for special interest lobbyist's?!...
Its amazing to me that were in a presidential election period and no one is talking about campaign finance reform and the elimination of lobbying.
Do you want Immigration reform?...make campaign finance reform your #1 issue
Do you want Healthcare reform?...make campaign finance reform your #1 issue
Do you want fair taxes?...make campaign finance reform your #1 issue
...I could go on and on...pick an issue that your passionate about and I promise you that it would fit under this umbrella. Its as plain as the rather large nose on my face. Taking away lobby contributions and giving our government back to the people would trickle down to solving SO many of our issues that it would blow your mind.
So why is it not an issue? Could it be that the people who control the media and the message are part of the problem? Could it be that we have the "foxes watching the henhouse" because if laws are to be passed to cut off this blaitant purchasing of our government who would have to pass the new laws to stop it?....The very government officials who are taking the money now!!!
We need to make this a public outcry, it needs to be shouted by every American that this is the #1 issue and our politicians need to either get on board or they can take a hike come next election! We need shirts, hats, bumper stickers! We need billboards, tv commercials, rallys! We need campaign finance reform like we need oxygen and most of us dont even know it!!!!
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eryan2369
770 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 3:45:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by velecico
No one from Alabama is allowed an opinion on my thread , 2/3 of Alabama would vote for slavery to come back if they could
Your ignorance, if there was any question of it remaining, is now unmistakeable. |
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velecico
3624 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 3:48:35 PM
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I take that back , Alabama , you are right , we basically have govt for sale , I crack up reading a thread about some poor sap having a HUD auditor give him crap over $100 referall fees to past clients but its OK for PMI or MGIC to give millions in lobbying money when laws benefit them |
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mrwiizrd
32 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 3:48:55 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by velecico
No one from Alabama is allowed an opinion on my thread , 2/3 of Alabama would vote for slavery to come back if they could
i hope you're kidding around |
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velecico
3624 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 3:51:28 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mrwiizrd
quote:
Originally posted by velecico
No one from Alabama is allowed an opinion on my thread , 2/3 of Alabama would vote for slavery to come back if they could
i hope you're kidding around
They still had the confederate flag flying at the state house up to a few years ago , what do you think ? |
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scottanthony
2993 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 3:57:01 PM
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This is one of the biggest reasons I feel no sympathy towards developers crying about their lost business now. These same developers used to cry that their home prices were always justified because it cost soooo much to build. BULLSH*T!!! Those same developers who were selling $600k homes in places like Modesto can STILL sell homes for $400k AND make a profit! Give me a break.
If you see em, report em! |
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