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HMDApproved
694 Posts |
 Posted - 05/18/2008 : 07:31:18 AM
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How is it that we can't afford the price of a gallon of gas but Exxon/Mobil made 40 BILLION IN PROFIT for the QUARTER????
Whats wrong with this picture????? |
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hmorales007
227 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 08:16:14 AM
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It is Enron all over again. The traders are using every dirty trick in the book to make huge profits. An Eathquake in China - this means prices are going up? Buy oil. An attack on a Nigerian pipleline - this means prices are going up! Every thing that happens they are manipulating the market with. It is so disgustingly transparent.
The aggravated rape and pillage of the american people will stop only when several organizations have the balls to mass produce electric cars, air cars etc. so they are affordable. The technolgy has been supressed for decades. Oil companies collectively make trillions of dollars so they grease all the politicians. The pay to buy battery technology and supress it - and we as Americans stand by and allow ourselves to get raped.
A company like Wal-Mart should take the initiative and create and mass market a $12k Electric car. 70% of oil consumption in the U.S. is from automobiles. If millions of cars on the road were suddenly electric (no oil, no gas, no emissions, ever) this would cripple the greedy oil companies and oil producing countries. Not to mention help save the environment. Maybe smog choked LA, Phoenix, etc. might one day be free of the toxic clouds that represent the trillions of dollars of ill-earned profits.
Oilimplode.com. Dear God would I be happy should that day come. |
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benjamin
2295 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 10:03:06 AM
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Bush family heavily into oil. Do you think they care?
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808
2603 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 10:13:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hmorales007
It is Enron all over again. The traders are using every dirty trick in the book to make huge profits. An Eathquake in China - this means prices are going up? Buy oil. An attack on a Nigerian pipleline - this means prices are going up! Every thing that happens they are manipulating the market with. It is so disgustingly transparent.
The aggravated rape and pillage of the american people will stop only when several organizations have the balls to mass produce electric cars, air cars etc. so they are affordable. The technolgy has been supressed for decades. Oil companies collectively make trillions of dollars so they grease all the politicians. The pay to buy battery technology and supress it - and we as Americans stand by and allow ourselves to get raped.
A company like Wal-Mart should take the initiative and create and mass market a $12k Electric car. 70% of oil consumption in the U.S. is from automobiles. If millions of cars on the road were suddenly electric (no oil, no gas, no emissions, ever) this would cripple the greedy oil companies and oil producing countries. Not to mention help save the environment. Maybe smog choked LA, Phoenix, etc. might one day be free of the toxic clouds that represent the trillions of dollars of ill-earned profits.
Oilimplode.com. Dear God would I be happy should that day come.
the only problem w that argument is the american public will not buy an electric car. The mentality of the American public is 'Oh the oil crisis is over, does that mean I can fnally buy my Hummer'
Why doesn't the Govt try leading by example. If you made all forms of public transportation & taxis & other state owned vehicles convert to electric you might get a better response from the public when they go to buy their next vehicle |
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hmorales007
227 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 10:25:28 AM
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American's will not buy an electric car? They are mad as hell. You better believe hundreds of thousands of electric cars would move off the lots if and when someone has the balls to mass produce them. The problem is big oil and the greased politicians will do anything and everything to prevent this.
quote:
Originally posted by 808
quote:
Originally posted by hmorales007
It is Enron all over again. The traders are using every dirty trick in the book to make huge profits. An Eathquake in China - this means prices are going up? Buy oil. An attack on a Nigerian pipleline - this means prices are going up! Every thing that happens they are manipulating the market with. It is so disgustingly transparent.
The aggravated rape and pillage of the american people will stop only when several organizations have the balls to mass produce electric cars, air cars etc. so they are affordable. The technolgy has been supressed for decades. Oil companies collectively make trillions of dollars so they grease all the politicians. The pay to buy battery technology and supress it - and we as Americans stand by and allow ourselves to get raped.
A company like Wal-Mart should take the initiative and create and mass market a $12k Electric car. 70% of oil consumption in the U.S. is from automobiles. If millions of cars on the road were suddenly electric (no oil, no gas, no emissions, ever) this would cripple the greedy oil companies and oil producing countries. Not to mention help save the environment. Maybe smog choked LA, Phoenix, etc. might one day be free of the toxic clouds that represent the trillions of dollars of ill-earned profits.
Oilimplode.com. Dear God would I be happy should that day come.
the only problem w that argument is the american public will not buy an electric car. The mentality of the American public is 'Oh the oil crisis is over, does that mean I can fnally buy my Hummer'
Why doesn't the Govt try leading by example. If you made all forms of public transportation & taxis & other state owned vehicles convert to electric you might get a better response from the public when they go to buy their next vehicle
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HMDApproved
694 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 2:04:49 PM
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40 BILLION PER QUARTER IN PROFITS.
I think that = $40,000,000,000.00
Whats wrong with that picture? |
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HMDApproved
694 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 2:06:50 PM
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| BTW, Did I mention $40,000,000,000.00 in 120 DAYS???????? PROFIT??????? |
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lostintranslatio
109 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 2:24:11 PM
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| There's no upper limit. Each of the oil execs could live like Caesar and it still wouldn't be enough. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Call me pessimistic, but I can't see anything changing until there's a big financial incentive to do so. Politicians are owned by corps and special interest groups. |
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KHufford
5998 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 2:50:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by HMDApproved
40 BILLION PER QUARTER IN PROFITS.
I think that = $40,000,000,000.00
Whats wrong with that picture?
You guys are forgetting economies of scale. It seems crazy but their profits are in line with expenses. When they spend billions they make billions. You cannot afford to spend a billion dollars on production to only make, say 2 million dollars. That would be too risky.
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1stintegritymort
1298 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 2:58:05 PM
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| i read some where that GM put out a small sample of electric cars in the 90's. everyone that drove it had no complaints, but for some unknown reason they destroyed every single one of them. supposedly a full charge ran for 60 miles. it was easy to power up just plug in the outlet. there is a smart car mercedes is coming out with that is all electric. its about 30k. i think they will be out later this year. |
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toddblue
2397 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 3:07:17 PM
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I live in an area that is heavily dependent on West Texas oilfield money. We are a resort destination for oilpatch workers. When oil prices are high, oil money flows. No doubt about it I direectly benefit from it.
But if you don't like it, here's what you can do:
1. Be like a Bush, invest in oil companies. Why complain about the profit if you can have a piece of it?
2. Realize OPEC dictates oil prices by controlling the supply side of the problem. They are refusing to supply more at this time. And even if they did, environmentalists in the US have shut down our domestic refining capability over the last 30 years. Don't vote for those that would limit our domestic exploration and refining of oil.
3. As voters and consumers, we need to demand an alternative energy initiative through public and private enterprise on the scale of the 'Manhattan Project'. Seek the leadership in our country that will challenge the American people to address our enrgy woes just as Kennedy challenged us to go to the moon. Not only did we get to the moon, look at the technological windfall we received from the scientific advances made to get us there. Imagine what would come from a new source of clean affordable energy and the application of that technology.
Yes, oil companies post huge profits. But should they be capped? Let an open and honest marketplace based on supply and demand dictate costs and profits. After all, you wouldn't want the government limiting how much profit you could make in your business. With that said, the sooner we can take ourselves out of the demand side of the oil equation, the better off we will be as a nation.
A.) Our economy will strengthen as less dollars go overseas to foreign countries.
B.) Our geo-political situation will improve as we would no longer have to do business with those that wish us harm. And again, they would not profit from us.
C.) It wouldn't hurt the environment to be a little cleaner as a nation.
D.) Entire new industries would be born based on the new application of energy technology, further boosting our economy.
Even though I benefit directly from higher oil costs, I understand the time for change is now. |
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hmorales007
227 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 4:23:00 PM
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Sure. What is going on with the traders and the price of oil is "open and honest." Kind of like Enron was. Bush is the same lame useless bastard when it comes to any kind of energy. Those are his cronies.
quote:
Originally posted by toddblue
I live in an area that is heavily dependent on West Texas oilfield money. We are a resort destination for oilpatch workers. When oil prices are high, oil money flows. No doubt about it I direectly benefit from it.
But if you don't like it, here's what you can do:
1. Be like a Bush, invest in oil companies. Why complain about the profit if you can have a piece of it?
2. Realize OPEC dictates oil prices by controlling the supply side of the problem. They are refusing to supply more at this time. And even if they did, environmentalists in the US have shut down our domestic refining capability over the last 30 years. Don't vote for those that would limit our domestic exploration and refining of oil.
3. As voters and consumers, we need to demand an alternative energy initiative through public and private enterprise on the scale of the 'Manhattan Project'. Seek the leadership in our country that will challenge the American people to address our enrgy woes just as Kennedy challenged us to go to the moon. Not only did we get to the moon, look at the technological windfall we received from the scientific advances made to get us there. Imagine what would come from a new source of clean affordable energy and the application of that technology.
Yes, oil companies post huge profits. But should they be capped? Let an open and honest marketplace based on supply and demand dictate costs and profits. After all, you wouldn't want the government limiting how much profit you could make in your business. With that said, the sooner we can take ourselves out of the demand side of the oil equation, the better off we will be as a nation.
A.) Our economy will strengthen as less dollars go overseas to foreign countries.
B.) Our geo-political situation will improve as we would no longer have to do business with those that wish us harm. And again, they would not profit from us.
C.) It wouldn't hurt the environment to be a little cleaner as a nation.
D.) Entire new industries would be born based on the new application of energy technology, further boosting our economy.
Even though I benefit directly from higher oil costs, I understand the time for change is now.
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CommFunds
37 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 5:13:28 PM
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It isn't one guy or a board making 40 billion.
They do pay dividends on their stock, which I am sure every major pension fund and mutual fund owns.
You, your friend, your grandmother, and everyone else can buy Exxon stock, if they want a piece of the profit.
You are also welcome to find a way to take something out of the ground, turn it into gas, and sell it for 3.50 a gallon. If you do, let me know, and I will gladly buy from you.
We are in a Capitalist economy, although you would not know it looking at our tax policies. When companies make money, we all benefit. Have you ever gotten a job from a poor person?
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darkstar
18304 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 5:16:45 PM
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| I don't believe the oil companies set the price, they benefit from it but if I'm not mistaken, it's set by Wall St...Yes?...No?... |
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toddblue
2397 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 5:42:27 PM
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Wow. You must think Bush is a genius if he can control world oil prices!
The fact is, you can be an oil trader. Either in the stock or commodities market. The real market manipulations occurring are OPEC's price control through limitimg supply and our inability to refine at a sustainable capacity.
You can try to pin this on Bush, but if you think he is so inept as a president, how can you justify him being genius enough to be able to control world oil?
Try looking at these causes for the increase in gas prices:
1.) Limited refining. The US has not built new refinery in 30 years. This is not because of Bush, it is because of left wing environmentalists aligned with the Democratic party. (After all, wouldn't Bush love to be able to unwind the past 30 years of feel good environmentalism and reward his benefactors with new, more profitable refineries if he could?)
2.)All nations in the world are competing for the same barrels of oil. They are priced in the world commodity markets based on supply and demand. We are unfortunately chasing that oil with devalued dollars. What has caused the greatest pressure on the dollar leading to it's devaluation is our weak Federal Reserves economic policy combined with runaway deficit spending.
3.) We are not allowed to drill on our own continental shelf, but fireign countries including China and Venezuela are? Damned environmentlist. Wouldn't Bush want his people to be able to have access to this oil? If he was the all powerful oil guru so many think he is, don't you think they already would?
4.) Besides food and wine, the only other thing the French got right was nuclear energy. We can curb our appetite for fosil fuels by allowing nuclear power plants to be built. Again, I lay the fact that this has not occurred directly at the feet of the left wing environmentalists aligned with the Democratic party.
Has Bush's environmental policy been a ggod one? Obviously not. But please try not to be so simplistically eager to place the blame solely on him. The left wing envronmentalists have had a much more adverse effect that has brought us to the crisis we currently face.
And NEVER FORGET, Al Gore and his family made their fortunes in oil.
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RGK2394
1224 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 5:48:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hmorales007
Sure. What is going on with the traders and the price of oil is "open and honest." Kind of like Enron was. Bush is the same lame useless bastard when it comes to any kind of energy. Those are his cronies.
quote:
Originally posted by toddblue
I live in an area that is heavily dependent on West Texas oilfield money. We are a resort destination for oilpatch workers. When oil prices are high, oil money flows. No doubt about it I direectly benefit from it.
But if you don't like it, here's what you can do:
1. Be like a Bush, invest in oil companies. Why complain about the profit if you can have a piece of it?
2. Realize OPEC dictates oil prices by controlling the supply side of the problem. They are refusing to supply more at this time. And even if they did, environmentalists in the US have shut down our domestic refining capability over the last 30 years. Don't vote for those that would limit our domestic exploration and refining of oil.
3. As voters and consumers, we need to demand an alternative energy initiative through public and private enterprise on the scale of the 'Manhattan Project'. Seek the leadership in our country that will challenge the American people to address our enrgy woes just as Kennedy challenged us to go to the moon. Not only did we get to the moon, look at the technological windfall we received from the scientific advances made to get us there. Imagine what would come from a new source of clean affordable energy and the application of that technology.
Yes, oil companies post huge profits. But should they be capped? Let an open and honest marketplace based on supply and demand dictate costs and profits. After all, you wouldn't want the government limiting how much profit you could make in your business. With that said, the sooner we can take ourselves out of the demand side of the oil equation, the better off we will be as a nation.
A.) Our economy will strengthen as less dollars go overseas to foreign countries.
B.) Our geo-political situation will improve as we would no longer have to do business with those that wish us harm. And again, they would not profit from us.
C.) It wouldn't hurt the environment to be a little cleaner as a nation.
D.) Entire new industries would be born based on the new application of energy technology, further boosting our economy.
Even though I benefit directly from higher oil costs, I understand the time for change is now.
Here we go- sure, it's Bush's fault oil prices are sky high- nothing to do with supply and demand. I hate it as well, but be realistic and admit that D or R, whomever would have been elected last election, oil would still be where it is today regardless.
Question-
Who here thinks oil will ease closer to the election? OR rates?
I have clients telling me they are going to wait to refi as "there's no way oil will be $128/barrel in an election year/no way rates will be 5.875%", etc....
Thoughts...??? |
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toddblue
2397 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 5:56:23 PM
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| I don't think any candidate, or party, is strong enough to overcome market conditions we are facing today. If rates, or oil make a move it will be because of market forces, not some politician's promises of 'Change'. |
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hmorales007
227 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 7:40:22 PM
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The Federal Trade Commission will announce today its plan for investigating and regulating possible market manipulation by oil companies, traders and others, a Democratic senator said Thursday.
Under legislation passed late last year, violators could face fines of $1 million a day.
Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash., said the best way to bring down the price of gasoline at the pump is for the administration to start seriously policing the oil industry.
Legislation Cantwell sponsored and Congress approved in December granted the FTC powers to investigate petroleum markets.
Last month, Cantwell called on the FTC to launch an investigation into oil prices, and more recently she asked the Justice Department to create a task force to look at whether high crude oil and gasoline prices are the result of market manipulation.
Cantwell noted that there has been no disruption in supply and that U.S. demand has cooled.
After the 2000-2001 West Coast energy crisis, when electricity prices rose steeply, Congress gave the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission power to investigate market manipulation in the electricity and natural gas industries, Cantwell said. Since then, FERC has conducted 64 investigations resulting in settlements worth $40 million and has pushed two enforcement actions that netted nearly $460 million in civil penalties.
“It showed there was manipulation in the natural gas and electricity markets, and we want to make sure the oil markets are policed,”
- This is nothing but lip service. Those type of fines do nothing to big oil and traders making tens of billions. They piss that much money on a 4th vacation home. |
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RGK2394
1224 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 7:50:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hmorales007
The Federal Trade Commission will announce today its plan for investigating and regulating possible market manipulation by oil companies, traders and others, a Democratic senator said Thursday.
Under legislation passed late last year, violators could face fines of $1 million a day.
Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash., said the best way to bring down the price of gasoline at the pump is for the administration to start seriously policing the oil industry.
Legislation Cantwell sponsored and Congress approved in December granted the FTC powers to investigate petroleum markets.
Last month, Cantwell called on the FTC to launch an investigation into oil prices, and more recently she asked the Justice Department to create a task force to look at whether high crude oil and gasoline prices are the result of market manipulation.
Cantwell noted that there has been no disruption in supply and that U.S. demand has cooled.
After the 2000-2001 West Coast energy crisis, when electricity prices rose steeply, Congress gave the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission power to investigate market manipulation in the electricity and natural gas industries, Cantwell said. Since then, FERC has conducted 64 investigations resulting in settlements worth $40 million and has pushed two enforcement actions that netted nearly $460 million in civil penalties.
“It showed there was manipulation in the natural gas and electricity markets, and we want to make sure the oil markets are policed,”
- This is nothing but lip service. Those type of fines do nothing to big oil and traders making tens of billions. They piss that much money on a 4th vacation home.
This is EXACTLY what will cure all our woes- more regulation of the "BIG EVIL OIL COMPANIES"!!!!
It has nothing to do with India/China inreasing their use/global demand of the same resources the U.S. had a lock on only 5-10 years ago..!?!?!?
Instead of regulating oil companies- make them insignificant. Enact regulation that will focus on alternative sources of energy. I hate, HATE these moronic Dem's answers to EVERYTHING is to "police" more and "fine" more and blah blah F*KING BLAH!
Seriously, if it wasn't oil, if it was sal*****er that engines ran on, or cowsh*t or WHATEVER- the Dems would want to regulate them too! These companies are only feeding a hungry customer- take away the customer and *VIOLA*.....no more big evil oil company PERIOD! |
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ski2313
750 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 8:05:13 PM
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Prices are dictated purely by supply and demand. Take a look over at India and China, where rapid industrialization is taking place. They want the same oil we want. And they need WAY more of it now than they did 10 years ago. And our dollar as it relates to foreign currency stinks right now, and is getting weaker and weaker.
Our government takes in far more of a percentage profit on each gallon of gas than the oil companies do..
That's all I've got to say about that.
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KHufford
5998 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 9:51:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by darkstar
I don't believe the oil companies set the price, they benefit from it but if I'm not mistaken, it's set by Wall St...Yes?...No?...
Wall Street? Oil is the furthest thing from WallStreet..
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Originate_This
388 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 10:31:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by KHufford
quote:
Originally posted by darkstar
I don't believe the oil companies set the price, they benefit from it but if I'm not mistaken, it's set by Wall St...Yes?...No?...
Wall Street? Oil is the furthest thing from WallStreet..
Really? So I guess it's not traded on the NYMEX... |
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LoanPro71
2732 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 10:56:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ski2313
Prices are dictated purely by supply and demand. Take a look over at India and China, where rapid industrialization is taking place. They want the same oil we want. And they need WAY more of it now than they did 10 years ago. And our dollar as it relates to foreign currency stinks right now, and is getting weaker and weaker.
Our government takes in far more of a percentage profit on each gallon of gas than the oil companies do..
That's all I've got to say about that.
"Prices are dictated purely by supply and demand. Take a look over at India and China, where rapid industrialization is taking place. They want the same oil we want. And they need WAY more of it now than they did 10 years ago."
No, this is a MYTH. Supply is not the problem. There have been numerous reports recently that have pointed out that there is PLENTY of supply.
"And our dollar as it relates to foreign currency stinks right now, and is getting weaker and weaker."
I was waiting for someone ... anyone ... to point this out. The weakness of the dollar is probably the MOST important factor involved here folks. Who's guilty? The Federal Reserve, that's who. The dollar has lost 35% of it's value since 2001 because these morons print money like it's free. Of course, it IS free... for them.. not YOU.
If you price oil in GOLD, the price of oil has not changed in the last 7 years. The dollar is DIRECTLY tied to oil. It used to be backed by Gold... now it's backed by .... essentially .... NOTHING. We are witnessing the end result of our Government's foolishness by allowing a small group of private bankers to determine our monentary policy behind closed doors.
Increased fuel costs means an increase in the price of EVERYTHING that must be transported before it can be sold ... which pretty much includes every tangible item we buy.
"Our government takes in far more of a percentage profit on each gallon of gas than the oil companies do.."
Finally, someone identified the real culprit. Our Federal Govt is a PIG ... a bottomless pit of fraud, waste, and corruption. Why? ... because the vast majority of the American people don't pay attention to politics anymore .... that's why. They watch the boob-tube for 30 minutes every evening and swallow every single thing they see and hear as "the Gospel". The American media today is the most powerful propaganda force in the history of the world. Turn that sh*t off, people!
Somebody said earlier that we live in a "Capitalist" economy. LOL ... not hardly. Real capitalism has never been tried in America. The largest corporations in the world are directly responsible for most of the regulatory, tax, and compliance barriers that exist in almost every profitable sector of our economy. They eliminate all competition from behind closed doors ... and then they blame it on those nasty "liberals" ... or "socialists". The cost of entry into the most profitable sectors of our economy is way too high for all but the extremely wealthy. It isn't this way by accident.
The biggest threat to America is FACISM.
Big Government is in bed with the Mega Corporations.
Take your pick ... Big Oil, Big Pharma, Big Agriculture... etc.
Facism is the enemy. It's pure greed and nothing more. There is no longer any loyalty to Family and Country. The only loyalty now is Loyalty to the BOTTOM LINE.
Regardless of the ramifications ... the ends always justify the means.
PURE GREED is the only thing that can destroy America. Our enemies can't defeat us ... we will defeat OURSELVES.
The real enemies are on the inside... not in the desert 10,000 miles away.
Do not watch TV news unless you enjoy being brainwashed and distracted by worthless information.
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ML
3019 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2008 : 11:52:30 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by HMDApproved
How is it that we can't afford the price of a gallon of gas but Exxon/Mobil made 40 BILLION IN PROFIT for the QUARTER????
Whats wrong with this picture?????
What's wrong is you're off by about $30 billion! (I hope your GFE's are more accurate?) 
Good Friends,
Exxon/Mobil profits were $10.89 Billion this past quarter, $40 billion for the full year past!
Much as I hate to admit, I agree w/ LP. The world is awash in oil. It's the control of the oil that is at issue. OPEC (last I checked) was a CARTEL, ignorant of the rules of supply and demand! They dictate the price (based loosely on daily production quotas) and we buy all we can get!
Our fearless (feckless) leader is currently in the middle east to negotiate a cut in the price of oil, by encouraging our good friends and allies (the Saudis) to increase production. He will then continue his trip to Isreal to negotiate a middle east peace plan that will last for eternity!
Our pitiful conduct in Iraq has emboldened our enemies and proven to our allies that we no longer have the economic or military power to make suggestions (threats) or carry out any policy with regard to oil!
Our single greatest supporter in the middle east is Isreal. Our single greatest source of support and protection for Israel is an America that is financially and militarily strong, and globally respected.
But what matters a lot more is that under Mr. Bush, America today is neither feared nor respected nor liked in the Middle East, and that his lack of an energy policy for seven years has left Israel’s enemies and America’s enemies — the petro-dictators and the terrorists they support — stronger than ever. The rise of Iran as a threat to Israel today is directly related to Mr. Bush’s failure to succeed in Iraq and to develop alternatives to oil.
You wonder why we pay almost $4.00 for gas and $5.00 for diesel?
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loancloser1342
463 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 12:00:35 AM
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Reason #1 is false. U.S. refineries are running at 80-85% of capacity, not including scheduled downtime.
quote:
Originally posted by toddblue
Wow. You must think Bush is a genius if he can control world oil prices!
The fact is, you can be an oil trader. Either in the stock or commodities market. The real market manipulations occurring are OPEC's price control through limitimg supply and our inability to refine at a sustainable capacity.
You can try to pin this on Bush, but if you think he is so inept as a president, how can you justify him being genius enough to be able to control world oil?
Try looking at these causes for the increase in gas prices:
1.) Limited refining. The US has not built new refinery in 30 years. This is not because of Bush, it is because of left wing environmentalists aligned with the Democratic party. (After all, wouldn't Bush love to be able to unwind the past 30 years of feel good environmentalism and reward his benefactors with new, more profitable refineries if he could?)
2.)All nations in the world are competing for the same barrels of oil. They are priced in the world commodity markets based on supply and demand. We are unfortunately chasing that oil with devalued dollars. What has caused the greatest pressure on the dollar leading to it's devaluation is our weak Federal Reserves economic policy combined with runaway deficit spending.
3.) We are not allowed to drill on our own continental shelf, but fireign countries including China and Venezuela are? Damned environmentlist. Wouldn't Bush want his people to be able to have access to this oil? If he was the all powerful oil guru so many think he is, don't you think they already would?
4.) Besides food and wine, the only other thing the French got right was nuclear energy. We can curb our appetite for fosil fuels by allowing nuclear power plants to be built. Again, I lay the fact that this has not occurred directly at the feet of the left wing environmentalists aligned with the Democratic party.
Has Bush's environmental policy been a ggod one? Obviously not. But please try not to be so simplistically eager to place the blame solely on him. The left wing envronmentalists have had a much more adverse effect that has brought us to the crisis we currently face.
And NEVER FORGET, Al Gore and his family made their fortunes in oil.
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KHufford
5998 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 12:16:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Originate_This
quote:
Originally posted by KHufford
quote:
Originally posted by darkstar
I don't believe the oil companies set the price, they benefit from it but if I'm not mistaken, it's set by Wall St...Yes?...No?...
Wall Street? Oil is the furthest thing from WallStreet..
Really? So I guess it's not traded on the NYMEX...
LOL...think you missed my point. It was kind of sarcasm because of how its values fluctuate is not the same as a typical 'wallstreet' stock. I would say its much more corrupt but even that may be a stretch considering the wave of white collar crime on the market.
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LoanPro71
2732 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 12:30:42 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ML
quote:
Originally posted by HMDApproved
How is it that we can't afford the price of a gallon of gas but Exxon/Mobil made 40 BILLION IN PROFIT for the QUARTER????
Whats wrong with this picture?????
What's wrong is you're off by about $30 billion! (I hope your GFE's are more accurate?)
Good Friends,
Exxon/Mobil profits were $10.89 Billion this past quarter, $40 billion for the full year past!
Much as I hate to admit, I agree w/ LP. The world is awash in oil. It's the control of the oil that is at issue. OPEC (last I checked) was a CARTEL, ignorant of the rules of supply and demand! They dictate the price (based loosely on daily production quotas) and we buy all we can get!
Our fearless (feckless) leader is currently in the middle east to negotiate a cut in the price of oil, by encouraging our good friends and allies (the Saudis) to increase production. He will then continue his trip to Isreal to negotiate a middle east peace plan that will last for eternity!
Our pitiful conduct in Iraq has emboldened our enemies and proven to our allies that we no longer have the economic or military power to make suggestions (threats) or carry out any policy with regard to oil!
Our single greatest supporter in the middle east is Isreal. Our single greatest source of support and protection for Israel is an America that is financially and militarily strong, and globally respected.
But what matters a lot more is that under Mr. Bush, America today is neither feared nor respected nor liked in the Middle East, and that his lack of an energy policy for seven years has left Israel’s enemies and America’s enemies — the petro-dictators and the terrorists they support — stronger than ever. The rise of Iran as a threat to Israel today is directly related to Mr. Bush’s failure to succeed in Iraq and to develop alternatives to oil.
You wonder why we pay almost $4.00 for gas and $5.00 for diesel?
ML,
You nailed it.
But ... you left out the Monetary Policy part of the equation.
The destruction of the dollar and the inflation that has followed cannot be ignored. It is fundamental to the analysis.
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ML
3019 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 01:21:53 AM
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The roots of my economic theories were formed in the mid seventies when I was a student at Williams. One of our frequent guest lecturers was none other than Williams alum, Herb Stein, the former head of the Presidents Counsel of Economic Advisors in the Nixon Administration (and father of Ferris Buellers teacher, Ben Stein).
Dr. Stein, a free market economist in the Adam Smith vein, and Nixon, instituted a "wage and price freeze" policy, wherein all wages and prices were to be frozen for 90 days, stopping gold payments, and imposing a 10% surcharge on imports. (this from a free-marketer?) The theory was that the inflation then under way (about 4% a year) was propelled by expectations of inflation, not by underlying demand and supply conditions. The 90-day freeze would shake those expectations, and the economy would then subside into price stability. It was a rather flaky theory, and they were not prepared for the possibility that it was wrong.
Dr. Stein regaled us with his recollections that once they instituted this policy, they couldn't get out, and it stayed in effect for 1000 days. Totally contrary to their intent.
The story of closing the gold window was only a little different. At Camp David they decided that they wanted to get the exchange value of the dollar down. Closing the gold window and imposing a surcharge were ways to do that. But how much did they want to get the dollar down? And did they want to keep it at its new level indefinitely, or did they want to provide for readjustments?
The sum and the substance of his stories are that theories are nice, but does anyone have a plan for what we should do if the assumptions turn out to be wrong?
My conclusions are that the price of gold is largely dictated by the economic and military stability of the USA, on a purely psychological equation. And monetary policy is to an extent the same, with the Fed Chairmans hand always on the spiggot, to open or close the valve as s/he sees fit! With oil (not gold, or M1) as the key ingredient in the US economy, where goes oil, goes the economy? (my .02) |
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LoanPro71
2732 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 01:32:46 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ML
My conclusions are that the price of gold is largely dictated by the economic and military stability of the USA, on a purely psychological equation. And monetary policy is to an extent the same, with the Fed Chairmans hand always on the spiggot, to open or close the valve as s/he sees fit! With oil (not gold, or M1) as the key ingredient in the US economy, where goes oil, goes the economy? (my .02)
Is your oil theory based on the idea that the relationship is inverse in nature?
Gold and Oil are UP. US Economic and Military stability are down. The dollar is in the toilet. Inflation is MUCH higher than those ridiculous CPI and PPI numbers indicate.
Please elaborate further.
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ML
3019 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 01:52:33 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by LoanPro71
quote:
Originally posted by ML
My conclusions are that the price of gold is largely dictated by the economic and military stability of the USA, on a purely psychological equation. And monetary policy is to an extent the same, with the Fed Chairmans hand always on the spiggot, to open or close the valve as s/he sees fit! With oil (not gold, or M1) as the key ingredient in the US economy, where goes oil, goes the economy? (my .02)
Is your oil theory based on the idea that the relationship is inverse in nature?
Gold and Oil are UP. US Economic and Military stability are down. The dollar is in the toilet. Inflation is MUCH higher than those ridiculous CPI and PPI numbers indicate.
Please elaborate further.
That pretty much sums it up, CPI & PPI x-food and energy is a joke! I think inflation is closer to 5%.
You and I work with "the guy on the street," I know what people tell me about putting gas in the car, and feeding their family. My GF sold her family chain (5-stores) of convenience stores last year on my urging. She didn't want to, been in the family 30 years, but she knew she was starting to lose money, thank God for the Indians! |
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LoanPro71
2732 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 02:04:04 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by ML
quote:
Originally posted by LoanPro71
quote:
Originally posted by ML
My conclusions are that the price of gold is largely dictated by the economic and military stability of the USA, on a purely psychological equation. And monetary policy is to an extent the same, with the Fed Chairmans hand always on the spiggot, to open or close the valve as s/he sees fit! With oil (not gold, or M1) as the key ingredient in the US economy, where goes oil, goes the economy? (my .02)
Is your oil theory based on the idea that the relationship is inverse in nature?
Gold and Oil are UP. US Economic and Military stability are down. The dollar is in the toilet. Inflation is MUCH higher than those ridiculous CPI and PPI numbers indicate.
Please elaborate further.
That pretty much sums it up, CPI & PPI x-food and energy is a joke! I think inflation is closer to 5%.
You and I work with "the guy on the street," I know what people tell me about putting gas in the car, and feeding their family. My GF sold her family chain (5-stores) of convenience stores last year on my urging. She didn't want to, been in the family 30 years, but she knew she was starting to lose money, thank God for the Indians!
Good call convincing your GF to drop the retail chain. Not a good place to be right now ... retail is in the dumpster. 
I think inflation is closer to 10%, personally.
What should we do about the Federal Reserve System?
Should it exist in it's present form?
Should the Fed be allowed to meet in private to determine America's monetary policy?
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illinois_loan_of
23 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 05:01:10 AM
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| BLAH BLAH BLAH |
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illinois_loan_of
23 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 05:19:41 AM
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| Oil Prices are determined by the OIL companies that buy the oil from OPEC and also inflation. The OIL companies buy the oil at wholesale prices and then sell it to you at retail. So, basically they can set the price at whatever they want to. My brother worked 10 years for one of the Bil OIL companies and he left once he realised the truth. |
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GianniD
219 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 05:57:11 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by HMDApproved
How is it that we can't afford the price of a gallon of gas but Exxon/Mobil made 40 BILLION IN PROFIT for the QUARTER????
Should we limit profit to 10% of gross revenue, as thats about what 'Big Oil' makes. Also, know that they pay about 250-300% more in taxes, then they make in profit.
How about if we limit what LO's make on a deal, say, 1.5%, and, cap their annual income at $75K. How do you feel about that? The financial interests of borrowers would be addressed way more than lowering gas prices, as a borrower could save at least an 1/8th in rate, and probably fees too. See where this can go?? |
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benjamin
2295 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 06:03:26 AM
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NYMEX is where the price of Oil is bid up or down five days a week. Watch the ticker. If a news report says a Nigerian pipeline was bombed by rebels, within seconds you see price jumps.
Big Oil and OPEC can influence prices by what they supply . It takes a little longer for prices to adjust.
Oil companies get all sorts of tax breaks, I wouldn't mind seeing taxes raised significantly on Oil companies.
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GianniD
219 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 06:21:12 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by benjamin
Oil companies get all sorts of tax breaks, I wouldn't mind seeing taxes raised significantly on Oil companies.
Exactly what tax breaks do Big Oil get? Does anyone know, specifically?
I read last week that Exxon paid over $29 Billion in 1Q08 in taxes, and made 10.66 I believe it was.
Pelosi etc promised that they'd reduce gas prices once elected. Well, a gallon of gas is up over 50% from the date she took office.
Taxing gas more will eventually drive up the price, and they will be less willing to invest the 100%+ of their profits over the last few years in drilling, exploration, etc. Thats right, Big Oil has invested more money than it has made in net net profits over the last several years.
A simpler solution is to stop whining, and start conserving. Ive cut miles driven over 40% since 05. Does anyone really 'need' an escalade or an expedition? |
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Carlsbadd
756 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 07:06:37 AM
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While many here have great theories there is a big problem with going to and using an Electric Car. The electricity has to come from somewhere right? , how do we as a country address our need for more electricity? The environmental movement has it backward. They are calling for a "green" source of energy yet make it almost impossible to build a hydro electric dam or build a nuclear plant. More and more coal plants are being used and mountain tops in West Virginia are being leveled off and dumped into rivers and streams.
Meanwhile the ethanol production is pumping more hydro carbons into the atmosphere than fossil fuels and the out of control corn production means rising prices for wheat and feed costs for cattle.
It's way out of control. |
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ML
3019 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 07:12:51 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by GianniD
quote:
Originally posted by HMDApproved
How is it that we can't afford the price of a gallon of gas but Exxon/Mobil made 40 BILLION IN PROFIT for the QUARTER????
Should we limit profit to 10% of gross revenue, as thats about what 'Big Oil' makes. Also, know that they pay about 250-300% more in taxes, then they make in profit.
How about if we limit what LO's make on a deal, say, 1.5%, and, cap their annual income at $75K. How do you feel about that? The financial interests of borrowers would be addressed way more than lowering gas prices, as a borrower could save at least an 1/8th in rate, and probably fees too. See where this can go??
Don't confuse Gross Revenue with Gross Profit, or more accurately EBIDTA. Do you make 10% gross revenue on your product? Do Banks make 10%? Very few producers of a commodity make 10% PROFIT! Their gross revenue is MUCH higher!
Also, you're confusing INCOME TAX with SALES TAX. Yes Oil Co.'s pay huge sales and use tax, but very little income tax comparatively. You have bought into their advertising campaign, and have the numbers confused! |
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ML
3019 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 07:18:57 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by illinois_loan_officer
BLAH BLAH BLAH
Thank you for enlightening us, I was wondering what all the former fry cooks and Walmart clerks, who are now Sr. Loan Officers thought! |
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ML
3019 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 07:31:07 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by illinois_loan_officer
Oil Prices are determined by the OIL companies that buy the oil from OPEC and also inflation. The OIL companies buy the oil at wholesale prices and then sell it to you at retail. So, basically they can set the price at whatever they want to. My brother worked 10 years for one of the Bil OIL companies and he left once he realised the truth.
Sounds like your brother didn't learn much in ten years, if this is what he told you.
Oil Companies buy, or develop (find) oil. It is then sold to refiners who produce derivatives of petroleum; gasoline, diesel and home heating oil amongst these. Refiners will produce that which they can profit most from, that currently being diesel. Refiners (of which Big Oil is a player) control the supply of the finished products that you and I buy retail.
Let me save you another ten years of mystery, you don't know much about Bil(sic) OIL and if you apply the same research to the mortgage business, you likely don't know much about mortgages either! My suggestion to you, is to get out of the biz now and save yourself ten years of frustration! |
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Originate_This
388 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 07:33:15 AM
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| The average net profit margin for the S&P 500 is 11.1%. The average for the oil industry is 12.8% (Exxon is 9.7%). Google's is 25%, maybe we should cap them as well huh? |
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