| Author |
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dellloans
237 Posts |
 Posted - 05/15/2008 : 4:53:39 PM
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| I am doing a loan for a friend. I am charging him 5% for the refi. He couldnt afford the full appraisal fee so he gave the appraiser $200 and I personally paid the difference. So given that I am charging him alot to do the refi, is it wrong to ask him for the appraisal balance before signing or should I just eat the cost? |
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racerx
11608 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 4:55:09 PM
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| You're charging a friend 5 points? Wow. |
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syndicator
113 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 4:57:07 PM
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| 5 points whats the loan amount? |
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dellloans
237 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 4:57:33 PM
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| just under 200 |
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michellec
151 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 4:59:57 PM
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| $10K...off a friend? I wouldn't be asking for the remainder. |
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dellloans
237 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:00:31 PM
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| What if he deserves it? |
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nowbroker
1491 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:01:51 PM
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| With friends like you... who needs enemies? |
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justinbayle
118 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:02:36 PM
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I'm sure somebody's going to berate me for not having many posts here and chiming in....but you should be ASHAMED for charging your "FREIND" 5 points on a refi. Making $10K on that loan and you're sweating about a couple hundred bucks for an appraisal. I wouldn't charge my archenemy 5 points. Disgraceful.
Jeez, can't imagine how we ended up in this mortgage mess.
Dear Dellloans' Friend,
Call me. He's not your friend.
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MisterVA
6767 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:03:06 PM
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| I am thinking what YOU deserve, but I won't say it. |
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michellec
151 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:04:10 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by justinbayle
I'm sure somebody's going to berate me for not having many posts here and chiming in....but you should be ASHAMED for charging your "FREIND" 5 points on a refi. Making $10K on that loan and you're sweating about a couple hundred bucks for an appraisal. I wouldn't charge my archenemy 5 points. Disgraceful.
Jeez, can't imagine how ended up in this mortgage mess.
Dear Dellloans' Friend,
Call me. He's not your friend.
I agree with you... |
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Xpatriot
333 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:05:03 PM
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| lol, ya wow some friend. i usually give my friends the family discount. you should change the title to, IS IT WRONG? to charge your friend 5 points. |
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MisterVA
6767 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:05:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by justinbayle
I'm sure somebody's going to berate me for not having many posts here and chiming in....but you should be ASHAMED for charging your "FREIND" 5 points on a refi. Making $10K on that loan and you're sweating about a couple hundred bucks for an appraisal. I wouldn't charge my archenemy 5 points. Disgraceful.
Jeez, can't imagine how ended up in this mortgage mess.
Dear Dellloans' Friend,
Call me. He's not your friend.
This is a pretty accurate assessment of the situation. Balancing the same income on fewer borrowers to maintain a lifestyle is shameful at the very least. Hope he cancels during rescission. |
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dellloans
237 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:08:03 PM
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Justin-
I wont berate you as I fully expected to get ripped. And I typically dont charge friends much at all. Let's assume that there is ALOT more to the story and let's assume that this borrower who I was going to charge 1.5% but have since changed it to not a penny less than 5%, which is factually correct, brought this on himself. Based on those assumptions going back to my original question, should I get my appraisal money before signing? |
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Xpatriot
333 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:11:17 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dellloans
Justin-
I wont berate you as I fully expected to get ripped. And I typically dont charge friends much at all. Let's assume that there is ALOT more to the story and let's assume that this borrower who I was going to charge 1.5% but have since changed it to not a penny less than 5%, which is factually correct, brought this on himself. Based on those assumptions going back to my original question, should I get my appraisal money before signing?
sounds like there is a lot about this story your leaving out, do tell... |
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justinbayle
118 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:12:20 PM
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It may have helped your case to say to refer to this person as your client, not your friend. That's what's driving everyone mad. Any way you cut it, he's not your friend. If he's a buddy and you're charging 5 points, he's not friend. If he did something to you that makes him deserve to be charged 5 points, he's not your friend.
Either way, forget about the appraisal fee. You're still making too much money on a $200k loan.
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dellloans
237 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:13:25 PM
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| You are right Patriot. So what is your answer to the question based on the assumptions I have given? Do you want the rest of the story before casting your stones or answering the question? |
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racerx
11608 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:14:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by justinbayle
I'm sure somebody's going to berate me for not having many posts here and chiming in....but you should be ASHAMED for charging your "FREIND" 5 points on a refi. Making $10K on that loan and you're sweating about a couple hundred bucks for an appraisal. I wouldn't charge my archenemy 5 points. Disgraceful.
Jeez, can't imagine how we ended up in this mortgage mess.
Dear Dellloans' Friend,
Call me. He's not your friend.
Well, I have too many posts. I agree with you. |
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Xpatriot
333 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:15:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dellloans
You are right Patriot. So what is your answer to the question based on the assumptions I have given? Do you want the rest of the story before casting your stones or answering the question?
why are you worried about the money, do you think he will back out?? also, your gonna need a 0 invoice on that appraisal to fund. |
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racerx
11608 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:16:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dellloans
Justin-
I wont berate you as I fully expected to get ripped. And I typically dont charge friends much at all. Let's assume that there is ALOT more to the story and let's assume that this borrower who I was going to charge 1.5% but have since changed it to not a penny less than 5%, which is factually correct, brought this on himself. Based on those assumptions going back to my original question, should I get my appraisal money before signing?
If you were going to charge 1.5% and then something happened...maybe it would be wise to pass on the loan. Unless he slept with your wife or something. |
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RANDY P
2986 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:19:28 PM
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does he owe you money?
If not, and you are charging that much AND putting your neck on the line with an unpaid appraisal bill, you're nuts.
Can your buddy get online? He'll find a better deal in .02 seconds and you're all done. |
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dellloans
237 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:19:55 PM
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| No I dont need the money nor am I charging 5% to live a lifestyle as someone said. I will type in a separate post, give me a few minutes the cliff notes version, and than maybe someone can answer my original question. |
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Xpatriot
333 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:20:48 PM
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| my esp tells me there is some creative financing being done here for this friend. hence the 5 points. |
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justinbayle
118 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:21:07 PM
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| I did answer your original question. Forget about the appraisal bill. |
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RANDY P
2986 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:23:26 PM
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| talk him into paying the appraisal in full. You get that, you own him. |
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ss5547
250 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:26:01 PM
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| I would only not charge him for the rest of the appraisal, I would charge him a $799 commitment fee, as well as a $499 Document Review fee. That's what I charged my grandma when she refi'd, so I figure it's kosher, right? |
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MisterVA
6767 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:30:39 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dellloans
No I dont need the money nor am I charging 5% to live a lifestyle as someone said. I will type in a separate post, give me a few minutes the cliff notes version, and than maybe someone can answer my original question.
That would be me. Your problem seems to be that you do not like the answers that have been given you. A lot of people have answered you. Some said collect it. Some said not to collect it. Apparently reading and comprehension are issues here. I vote to not collect it. There. An answer. |
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Krishtian
72 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:36:38 PM
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| what happened to entegrity!! |
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highland_runner
47 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:36:44 PM
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| I would not ask for the appraisal report money back. I personally did a refi for a friend and I charged them .9%. The loan was such a pain in my a** that I almost walked away. Took 2 months to get it off my desk. |
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mortgagemessiah
8003 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:42:03 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Krishtian
what happened to entegrity!!
It's integrity.
Anyway I hope your friend finds out you're raping him and kicks your ass. |
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jstar
743 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:47:38 PM
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Usually I find if you are questioning yourself on the morality, or for some people the legality, of your actions than you all ready know the answer to the question.... Otherwise you would not worry about it.
With that being said.... I think you should go wall street on him and make him pay for the other half of the appraisal... |
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dellloans
237 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:49:53 PM
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Here is an abbrieviated version of the story.
Approached by friend in November for help. He was trying to sell his house or do hard money deal to pay off ALOT of liens. A hard money guy quoted him something ridiculous like $15K in fees which is why he called me. I searched around, and found the best deal for him with alot less fees, and I didnt make much at all. It should be noted here that I advised him continually throughout the process to not do the loan, sell his house, and go rent for a year as he had good equity left after selling house and he could pay cash for a house in a year. He chose to ignore my advice so we did the loan. He went back and forth with selling the house and doing the loan and only came back to the loan when buyer of his house fell through. When he finally came back he informed me needed it done tommorow. I told him when I could get him his money based on what i was told by hard money guy. Unfortunatly his money did not arrive in time and than i found out why he was in such a hurry. Car was going to be repoed if he didnt have $2200 right away. So what did I do? I loaned him $2200 along with an additional $600 the week after. (the goal with the loan was to clean up his 420 middle credit score and refi into fixed rate asap or he would sell his house) So finally loan is done, he gets his money, pays me off and I go to work cleaning up credit. Here is what I did to clean up his credit as a friend. I paid a friend of mine $250 out of my own pocket to write the letter to the credit bureaus. I obtained payoff letters from 19 creditors. I obtained paid-in-full letters for 19 creditors and than assembled a crystal clear binder for all 3 credit bureaus, and mailed it certified to all 3 bureaus at my cost, next day by the way. If you have done this before for someone than you will understand the unbelievable amount of time involved. So credit starts getting better after awhile, friend is constantly calling to say we need to hurry and get into good fixed rate. To speed up his credit scores, I added him as an authorized user on 3 credit cards that I have. 3 weeks ago he had me over for dinner and was telling me "i really need to get out of this loan". Pulled his credit on monday, ran through DU and guess what approved eligible. Called him up told him great news and he was ecstatic. He comes into my office the next day to go over everything, rate is 6%, and he starts asking about "what about Ditech having 4.79%" I tell him that is not realistic, yada yada. So after all that work, and believe me I am leaving alot out, what does he do? He shops me around to 4 different places. Now, I have 2 credit vendors I use. Amazingly the middle score on 1 of them was 538 which is why no one else could help him and he came back. So given that, am I still wrong to ask for the appraisal money back before signing? |
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highland_runner
47 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:55:19 PM
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| If this is the case I would ask for my money back. Sometimes its best not to do loans for family ad friends. |
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jstar
743 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:57:45 PM
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I think you are entitled to the appraisal money. However you need to wieght the possiblilty that aksing for $200.00 could jeapordize your entire commision. This client has a history of making risky and unsound financial decisions.....such as canceling a refinance deal that is benefiting him because the broker asked for the other half of the appraisal fee.
P.S... Never lend this guy money again |
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NobleHouse
357 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 5:57:57 PM
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| He's pimping you. I think you deserve that 5%. |
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Xpatriot
333 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 6:01:16 PM
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| whats section 32, 5.99% or 5%? i would max his fees and collect the appraisal money before the signing. then i would key his car for good measure. |
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NobleHouse
357 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 6:03:03 PM
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LOL
quote:
Originally posted by Xpatriot
whats section 32, 5.99% or 5%? i would max his fees and collect the appraisal money before the signing. then i would key his car for good measure.
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jstar
743 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 6:09:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Banker0679
P.S. never commit fraud again
Where is the fraud in this scenario....not arguing, just askin. |
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dellloans
237 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 6:11:47 PM
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| I wasnt looking for anyone's approval, I was looking for opinions. It is for this exact reason I never work with friends or family and when I do, I generally do it Pro Bono. The only reason I was going to charge him 1.5% was because of the unbelievable time, energy, and recources involved. When he initially shopped me around I was very angry and he knew it. I actually called him the day after to apologize to him for being so angry and to ask him for forgiveness. As far as I am concerned, when he shopped me around it stopped being about friendship and became about business, hence the 5%. |
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Loan Pro
467 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 6:13:58 PM
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dellloans
No you should not charge your friend 5%, What it sounds like you are doing is loan fraud
by you adding your friend/client as you put it as an authorized user to improve their credit to qualify for a loan that they would have not qualified for by themselves.
Any one else see it this way?
quote:
Originally posted by dellloans
Here is an abbrieviated version of the story.
Approached by friend in November for help. He was trying to sell his house or do hard money deal to pay off ALOT of liens. A hard money guy quoted him something ridiculous like $15K in fees which is why he called me. I searched around, and found the best deal for him with alot less fees, and I didnt make much at all. It should be noted here that I advised him continually throughout the process to not do the loan, sell his house, and go rent for a year as he had good equity left after selling house and he could pay cash for a house in a year. He chose to ignore my advice so we did the loan. He went back and forth with selling the house and doing the loan and only came back to the loan when buyer of his house fell through. When he finally came back he informed me needed it done tommorow. I told him when I could get him his money based on what i was told by hard money guy. Unfortunatly his money did not arrive in time and than i found out why he was in such a hurry. Car was going to be repoed if he didnt have $2200 right away. So what did I do? I loaned him $2200 along with an additional $600 the week after. (the goal with the loan was to clean up his 420 middle credit score and refi into fixed rate asap or he would sell his house) So finally loan is done, he gets his money, pays me off and I go to work cleaning up credit. Here is what I did to clean up his credit as a friend. I paid a friend of mine $250 out of my own pocket to write the letter to the credit bureaus. I obtained payoff letters from 19 creditors. I obtained paid-in-full letters for 19 creditors and than assembled a crystal clear binder for all 3 credit bureaus, and mailed it certified to all 3 bureaus at my cost, next day by the way. If you have done this before for someone than you will understand the unbelievable amount of time involved. So credit starts getting better after awhile, friend is constantly calling to say we need to hurry and get into good fixed rate. To speed up his credit scores, I added him as an authorized user on 3 credit cards that I have. 3 weeks ago he had me over for dinner and was telling me "i really need to get out of this loan". Pulled his credit on monday, ran through DU and guess what approved eligible. Called him up told him great news and he was ecstatic. He comes into my office the next day to go over everything, rate is 6%, and he starts asking about "what about Ditech having 4.79%" I tell him that is not realistic, yada yada. So after all that work, and believe me I am leaving alot out, what does he do? He shops me around to 4 different places. Now, I have 2 credit vendors I use. Amazingly the middle score on 1 of them was 538 which is why no one else could help him and he came back. So given that, am I still wrong to ask for the appraisal money back before signing?
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racerx
11608 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 6:16:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jstar
I think you are entitled to the appraisal money. However you need to wieght the possiblilty that aksing for $200.00 could jeapordize your entire commision. This client has a history of making risky and unsound financial decisions.....such as canceling a refinance deal that is benefiting him because the broker asked for the other half of the appraisal fee.
P.S... Never lend this guy money again
Or jeopardize his friendship...not that it is valued. |
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dellloans
237 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 6:19:26 PM
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| I have posted on here before about adding authorized users onto credit cards, have seen numerous posts regarding it and have never seen anything nor heard anything about fraud. |
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jstar
743 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 6:20:22 PM
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| You make a good point. However if adding an authorized user to your account is legal then it is not fraud. The bureaus have recently changed their scoring algorithm to exclude authorized users. |
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mantixmortgage
2806 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 6:21:08 PM
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| good story. |
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lunarhamster
4437 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 6:22:19 PM
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You should have posted your story first, that could have saved alot of time.
He's a jerk, ask for the appraisal money back, he'll probably go to Ditech anyway, you'll never see the 5 points, if he shopped you then, he'll shop you now.
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jpar994
885 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 6:23:48 PM
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SO basically you want to look at your friend and say why are you shopping me why waste all my time, does he understand what work you did.
By the by you just stated on a public forum that you a loan officer has committed fraud, in some extent or another. Some one is always watching
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jstar
743 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 6:27:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Banker0679
I wonder also if the money given to the borrower was documented properly...but i doubt it was since the LO was the one originating the loan.
This is why you're prohibited from having personal interest in any loan with your borrower. Stuff like this happens...
That makes sense. Is there a certain RESPA guideline this violates.
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dellloans
237 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 6:27:56 PM
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Kathi-
I appreciate your candidness and you are right, I should have posted the entire scenario up front. It is a long story and I didnt want to waste time posting it. I wasnt expecting all of the attacks on me though questioning my integrity and what not. I was just looking for some opinions. He aint going nowhere though. |
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Loan Pro
467 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 6:30:16 PM
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Jstar,
I believe it becomes fraud when you as the loan officer add a client to your own personal credit as an authorized user to improve their scores in order for a client to qualify to get a loan funded.
quote]Originally posted by jstar
You make a good point. However if adding an authorized user to your account is legal then it is not fraud. The bureaus have recently changed their scoring algorithm to exclude authorized users.
[/quote] |
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lunarhamster
4437 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 6:35:59 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dellloans
Kathi-
I appreciate your candidness and you are right, I should have posted the entire scenario up front. It is a long story and I didnt want to waste time posting it. I wasnt expecting all of the attacks on me though questioning my integrity and what not. I was just looking for some opinions. He aint going nowhere though.
Thats good. I did my sisters loan, charged no origination, made $600 on the back. Keep in mind her ex husband is also an LO, he told her I was making 10k on the back and she shopped me with 4-5 other lenders, it really hurt my feelings.
What's really sad about that kind of thing, is when you are really trying to give someone a great deal, making nothing.. and they still shop you... hurts |
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jstar
743 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 6:36:03 PM
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That makes sense as well. However I do not remeber or have never seen any specific info relating to this type of activity.
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refiguy123
247 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2008 : 6:38:26 PM
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| I would be pissed if someone came to me in desperation, and then shopped me. **** the two hundred, you are getting 10 g's. I would pay the 200 out of pocket. If you are that worried about 200 add it somewhere else, tell him you have to charge more for processing or something. Let him know how much of a headache it was, from the sounds of things he already knows this. I think that I would hit him over the head with fees too, given the history of this. You should have gave the whole story upfront, and you wouldn't have got bashed so bad. I don't think this was even worth posting. $200? |
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