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mganovsky
1107 Posts |
 Posted - 05/09/2008 : 08:17:46 AM
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Just wanted to pass on to every one a sad story I heard a few weeks ago.
A lady called me from a referal and wanted to refi her home to a rate and term, this is what she told me:
My husband and I retired in Jul of 2005 from New Jersey and moved to Florida. She bought the first home that was built in a LENNAR sub-division. The home was already built and had CO on it, she was told by the Realtor that financing fell thru and she could get a really good buy. So they looked at the home and loved it. The Realtor told them that the home could sell for $325,000 (this was a 3/2, 1/4 acre lot, and 1850 Sq Ft under air). But today was there luckey day that today only she could buy it for $274,000, but would have to use there in-house financing. She was told that Lenner would buy the rate down on a 30 year fixed to 4.5% Int, and give $8,000 towards closing costs; but to get that she would have to put down 20% in escrow. She was never provided a GFE or TIL by the LO. Unfortunitly she believed this snake.
The day before closing she was called and told that she needed to bring an additional $7500 to closing, she asked why and was told that the closing costs were more than what they thought, and if she did not want to buy the home that she would lose the 20% in escrow. So of course they were upset but since they loved the home they went to the bank and got the check.
When they showed up at closing, the Title Agent tried to skim thru the Doc's with out allowing them to read any thing; when they came to the "Note" the title agent just said sign here and here and here. That is when by luck they noticed the Int rate on the first page. It was 12% and was not a 30 year fixed it was a 2 year Arm with a 2 year Pre-Pay.
Thier combined retired income was only $2650.00. The payment did not include tax and Insurance. The title agent then told them the taxes were only about $400 to $500 per year and showed them a copy of the tax bill. (it was assessed as vacant land, here property tax is about 2% of assessed value)
They said they could not afford the home at that price, so closing was stopped and they were shufled into the "Sales Managers" office and told that if they wanted they could back out of the contract but they would lose the 20% they had in escrow. But if they wanted to put more money down they could and it may delay closing for a couple of days. Well they thought about it and did not want to lose the $54,800 so they put an additional $40,000 down. (which was the rest of there savings).
Now these nice folks sold thier home up north and put almost all of the profit and thier savings into this deal and did not want to lose the money. So they signed.
Since then the Husband was able to find work and is making about $1000 every 2 weeks (take home net), they got the Tax bill in NOV and it was for $3500 dollars, that they do not have, they called the Title Agent and she has since left the company, when they told the story to the Title agent she was told that "oh well I am sorry" the other title agent did that alot and that is why she no longer works here.
So I told her a would see what I could do. Credit and income wise it is a perfect FHA deal but "alas" the property value is not there the appraisal came in $45000 less than what they owe.
When I told them they were devistated and she broke down in tears not knowing what to do, so I gave her 2 options.
1. To put the home up for sale, and try to get the lender to accept a short sale.
2. I explained to her that this was what I felt was a better option for her: Since she could not afford the home and the property value was not there and she would more than likely not live long enough to actually own the home, why not just stop making your payments, do not worry about the tax bill, the county will just put a lien on the property. Try to sell the property as a short sale and move out and rent (in this area right now you can get a nice sized 3/2 for under $1000 per month. She said what if the bank forecloses on her home, my response was that based on her actual income at the time she should have never been approved to begin with, so let the lender have the home. They agreed and yesterday she called me and said she found a nice 2/2 Condo for rent at only $725 a month in a gated golf course community. And thanked me for my advise and wanted my address so she could send me $1000 for my time. I told her thanks but keep your money, just give me a referal.
This is not the first time I have heard stories like this about builders.
The moral of this stroy is how builders strong Arm folks into buying there homes, and rip people off and do not disclose the terms of the loan because at closing they have them approved and also have complete control of the escrow deposit and use it as leverage to make them sign the loan doc's. |
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Shuggins
775 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 08:26:48 AM
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| Thats horrible... If your in Fla. you should find the Lenner or Lennar and beat him with a large metal pole!!! |
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AGreene00
1991 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 08:35:37 AM
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| There is going to be a special place in hell for that builder/title rep. |
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Banker0679
6362 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 08:37:36 AM
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| i would blame the realtor also! |
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MARKJOLLIFF
298 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 08:38:30 AM
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| I know this might be a sore subject on this site but why not turn them in to Mortgage Fraud Watch List that Pam Crowley has started. It's free and while I can't guarantee anything will happen maybe someone will look at this and go after those animals. I'm a civil person but after being raised by my grandparents I have a real soft spot for the elderly and I would have no problem with someone just beating the s*** out of those involved! |
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Shuggins
775 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 08:40:40 AM
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How in Gods name do you sleep at night after pulling a stunt like that, or I guess from what it appears reading the story, several stunts like that.
You hear people saying "would you put your mom in that loan?". Well how do you rip off someones grandmother? |
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Shuggins
775 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 08:43:19 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by MARKJOLLIFF
I know this might be a sore subject on this site but why not turn them in to Mortgage Fraud Watch List that Pam Crowley has started. It's free and while I can't guarantee anything will happen maybe someone will look at this and go after those animals. I'm a civil person but after being raised by my grandparents I have a real soft spot for the elderly and I would have no problem with someone just beating the s*** out of those involved!
Amen to that! |
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mganovsky
1107 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 08:47:19 AM
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I am in Florida and I gave them the web site for the Office of financial regulation, as well as the Insurance Department for the Title issues. And told them to file a complaint.
What is the web site for the mortgage fraud watch list.
And yes all parties were at fault, starting with the Realtor.
I also feel for the elderly, ya know until I found the BO I actually thought I was only one of the few honest Mortgage brokers out there. But I NOW KNOW that the scoundrels in our BIZ are only a small minority and hopefully are no longer in BIZ. |
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mganovsky
1107 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 08:53:23 AM
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I felt so bad for them I actually got tears in my eyes as she was telling me the story, to top it off, I did not add into the story that after closing 3 weeks later she had a heart attack and had a triple by-pass surgery. Now, her arteries were already bad and clogged to begin with, but still maybe the added stress caused the heart attack.
Really sweet folks, I also told them to take the $1000 and take a cruise, but please do not forget to tell your friends what a super Mortgage Broker I am. I always try to get referals, even when I can not help some one. |
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katroberts
989 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 08:56:02 AM
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Mark, refer them to an attorney before they give up.
We cannot let Lennar, that realtor, or that title company get away with that.
This story has me really upset. I hear these kind of stories too, and, frankly, some would tell me to toughen up, but I have a hard time sleeping at night, as I just worry and think about some of the people I talk to that have been so terribly affected by unscrupulous people.
I think you would be a real hero if you went with them with their original closing package to an attorney. Personally, I would call the news on this one and have a reporter come out and do a story. I would also write to the President of Lennar Homes and tell him about what happened and ask for his response. |
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brandie
2711 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 09:00:04 AM
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| I would like to ***** slap anyone who takes advantage of the elderly. |
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rtrefflich
1772 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 09:15:29 AM
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| I would find a good RE attorney down there and argue fraud, duress and I'm sure there are T&L violations. It wouldn't be that hard to prove, and if you can prove duress or fraud you may negate the entire contract, thus getting them their $100,000 back. |
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Douggie
1253 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 09:19:58 AM
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YEah theres some sad **** going on.......
Last year I had this elderly retired lady call me. She lives several miles down the road from where I do. I go to the interview. Her son passed away, she got his life insurance. It wasnt much but enough for her to buy some land (pretty pricy land) and she put up a modular (it was actually a nice place). She found a contractor to put in a well, septic, basement (crawl space) and build a 2 car garage addition.
During the interview she started telling me stuff that was going on. She had cancer that spread throughout her body. 2 days after the interview she had to have her eye removed. She was going into treatment 3 times a week which drained her.
The contractor screwed up some major things and she claimed no payment until they were fixed. He got a lawyer and slapped a lein on the house and property. Now she had a paid for house and property with a lein against it. Her ss wouldnt cover the debt. By the time she called me she already talked with about a dozen other brokers. One of them got to her 401k and snagged 40,000.00 out of her account.
Not able to qualify for a loan. She had to put her new home she owned without a lein up for sale. The lawyer has it in foreclosure right now.
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hjames1908
29 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 09:25:03 AM
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| I am just wondering if the parties involved, Realtor, title/escrow company, builder, LO, etc., don't have some E&O insurance they can turn to, or perhaps a surety bond. |
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haiku
370 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 09:27:03 AM
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| Devil's advocate... sorry. But, normally, the lender sends you out separate disclosures. Even on purchases, the client has a right to read their material before signing and even after signing. If they didn't feel comfortable with it, they should not have settled. It may seem unethical what is going on, but I have a difficult time believing that these people didn't know they were getting and adjustable rate at 12%. I'm sorry! And how is it the realtor's fault? First of all, back in that time, builder reps were not required to be licensed. I don't know the rule in Florida. But now, they are required to be licensed. Title agents always skim through docs. We all know damn well that the title people dont read verbatim every last word on every last doc that is in that pile. There is only one case I know of where the title rep was forced to because the client requested or they weren't signing. That deal took a total of 8 hours to close that day. Contract law is contract law. Every person has a right to legal representation. Every real estate contract that I have ever seen has in bold capital letters at the top in some variation of this: "this is a legal binding contract. if you do not understand, please consult with an attorney." I feel jacked up about this industry and some of the things that people do. But I am also sick and tired of people claiming ignorance. Well, you sure weren't ignorant when you had glassy eyes going through that big ass model home in that posh ass subdivision. Please! Bomb me out if you want. I feel the way I feel. And we all know damn well that not every deal is a good deal. |
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ppulatie
1803 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 09:52:28 AM
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This couple probably has major legal recourse against several people. Check your email.
quote:
Originally posted by mganovsky
Just wanted to pass on to every one a sad story I heard a few weeks ago.
A lady called me from a referal and wanted to refi her home to a rate and term, this is what she told me:
My husband and I retired in Jul of 2005 from New Jersey and moved to Florida. She bought the first home that was built in a LENNAR sub-division. The home was already built and had CO on it, she was told by the Realtor that financing fell thru and she could get a really good buy. So they looked at the home and loved it. The Realtor told them that the home could sell for $325,000 (this was a 3/2, 1/4 acre lot, and 1850 Sq Ft under air). But today was there luckey day that today only she could buy it for $274,000, but would have to use there in-house financing. She was told that Lenner would buy the rate down on a 30 year fixed to 4.5% Int, and give $8,000 towards closing costs; but to get that she would have to put down 20% in escrow. She was never provided a GFE or TIL by the LO. Unfortunitly she believed this snake.
The day before closing she was called and told that she needed to bring an additional $7500 to closing, she asked why and was told that the closing costs were more than what they thought, and if she did not want to buy the home that she would lose the 20% in escrow. So of course they were upset but since they loved the home they went to the bank and got the check.
When they showed up at closing, the Title Agent tried to skim thru the Doc's with out allowing them to read any thing; when they came to the "Note" the title agent just said sign here and here and here. That is when by luck they noticed the Int rate on the first page. It was 12% and was not a 30 year fixed it was a 2 year Arm with a 2 year Pre-Pay.
Thier combined retired income was only $2650.00. The payment did not include tax and Insurance. The title agent then told them the taxes were only about $400 to $500 per year and showed them a copy of the tax bill. (it was assessed as vacant land, here property tax is about 2% of assessed value)
They said they could not afford the home at that price, so closing was stopped and they were shufled into the "Sales Managers" office and told that if they wanted they could back out of the contract but they would lose the 20% they had in escrow. But if they wanted to put more money down they could and it may delay closing for a couple of days. Well they thought about it and did not want to lose the $54,800 so they put an additional $40,000 down. (which was the rest of there savings).
Now these nice folks sold thier home up north and put almost all of the profit and thier savings into this deal and did not want to lose the money. So they signed.
Since then the Husband was able to find work and is making about $1000 every 2 weeks (take home net), they got the Tax bill in NOV and it was for $3500 dollars, that they do not have, they called the Title Agent and she has since left the company, when they told the story to the Title agent she was told that "oh well I am sorry" the other title agent did that alot and that is why she no longer works here.
So I told her a would see what I could do. Credit and income wise it is a perfect FHA deal but "alas" the property value is not there the appraisal came in $45000 less than what they owe.
When I told them they were devistated and she broke down in tears not knowing what to do, so I gave her 2 options.
1. To put the home up for sale, and try to get the lender to accept a short sale.
2. I explained to her that this was what I felt was a better option for her: Since she could not afford the home and the property value was not there and she would more than likely not live long enough to actually own the home, why not just stop making your payments, do not worry about the tax bill, the county will just put a lien on the property. Try to sell the property as a short sale and move out and rent (in this area right now you can get a nice sized 3/2 for under $1000 per month. She said what if the bank forecloses on her home, my response was that based on her actual income at the time she should have never been approved to begin with, so let the lender have the home. They agreed and yesterday she called me and said she found a nice 2/2 Condo for rent at only $725 a month in a gated golf course community. And thanked me for my advise and wanted my address so she could send me $1000 for my time. I told her thanks but keep your money, just give me a referal.
This is not the first time I have heard stories like this about builders.
The moral of this stroy is how builders strong Arm folks into buying there homes, and rip people off and do not disclose the terms of the loan because at closing they have them approved and also have complete control of the escrow deposit and use it as leverage to make them sign the loan doc's.
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katroberts
989 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 09:54:54 AM
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[quote]Originally posted by ppulatie
This couple probably has major legal recourse against several people. Check your email.
I knew you would show up on this thread. Way to go. Please let us all know if anything comes about that can help these people. |
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ppulatie
1803 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 10:05:33 AM
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Yep, I would show up. I am getting buried in these type of files right now. I don't make much money but at least I am helping and offering guidance.
If these people were over 70 yo at the time, elder abuse also comes into play. This is a very powerful tool for recission. Plus, the TIL will always be wrong on a 2 year fixed.
And, depending upon the cap, there may be a HOEPA violation. People assume that HOEPA only applies to the start rate and/or fees, but there is one court case that has ruled that it applies to the cap.
Someday, I am going to write a book about all the fraud I am seeing. It is so bad, I now tell people I am a used car salesman and not a loan officer.
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Douggie
1253 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 10:09:45 AM
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| I've seen a lot of it over the years. The broker I first signed up with done a lot of it.....I sayed there for about a month and a half....then quit. Hes actually posted on the mortgage fruad blog. |
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MisterVA
4568 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 10:12:41 AM
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| Would make a great news story in the local paper where these scoundrels are located. |
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ski2313
591 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 10:18:33 AM
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Unreal.
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yldspread
359 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 10:19:30 AM
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| ****_NG SHARKS! WHY DON'T THEY GO TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL?????????????????? |
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ppulatie
1803 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 10:24:17 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by yldspread
****_NG SHARKS! WHY DON'T THEY GO TO THE ATTORNEY GENERAL??????????????????
Most AG's will not bother with this. Nor DA's. It is too small of potatoes to get involved with.
Class acton suits don't work well either. By the time that they get resolved, the people have either lost their homes, or the money paid out is eaten up by the laywers and the people get very little.
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Douggie
1253 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 10:40:06 AM
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quote:
or the money paid out is eaten up by the laywers and the people get very little.
Going through that now. My father passed away with some substantial debt and a lot of properties. My plan was to quit claim all the properties and tell the cc'd co to shove it. But my brother got with my father the morning I had the docs drawn up. Now everything is in litigation. Im sure the lawyer he hired is loving it. |
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ppulatie
1803 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 10:49:29 AM
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Best thing is having a Living Trust. It solves most of the inheritance issues of small estates. No probate.
Lawyers love doing wills. They view wills as their retirement. People come to them to handle probate from the wills. That is an excellent source of income in later years. |
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brandie
2711 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 10:54:58 AM
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
or the money paid out is eaten up by the laywers and the people get very little.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have to agree. people say that mortgage brokers are scums, but the lawyers are worse. |
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mganovsky
1107 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 11:01:46 AM
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First of all thanks for all the advise, I did refer them to an attorney, I will keep every one posted as to the result.
Haiku: You sound like one of the scoundrels that do not belong in this BIZ. We all know that closing agents skim thru the docs. But the should always go over the HUD1, TIL and Note, Mortgage and any Note Riders in detail, all other doc's are basically who cares.
And yes I asked that question to them, didn't you get a lender package that included a GFE and TIL. Yes they did and called the LO and was told that to disregard them because the TIL does not show the Int Rate you are paying. Which is correct.
And yes folks do need to be held responsible for what they sign, but in this case the builder strong armed them and used the "Escrow Deposit" as leverage. The contract said they had to close within 5 days of receiving C.O. and that they were approved for a mortgage so if they did not close then they would lose thier escrow deposit. And I don't think even you would want to walk away from $54,800 of you hard earned savings. Would you?
In Florida you can work under the Builders "blanket" license but with Lennar it is there policy that all sales folks have to be a licensed Realtor.
And I think I will write a letter to the president of lennar, and I will put into the letter that unless this is some how rectified by Lennar that Channel 12 news will be notified, and I will title it Elderly abuse. We will see what happens |
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racerx
10225 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 11:09:30 AM
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Mark, you're a class act. Good job.
Let me know if you need any media contact information. |
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ppulatie
1803 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 11:09:40 AM
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Good job Mark.
Hopefully the lawyer truly understands Real Estate law. I find that even those who claim to know it, really don't have a real clue.
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lucky1s
3095 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 11:16:02 AM
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That actually made me cry.
I just pulled a listing on a short sale that a client wants to see.
It was listed at $489,000 for 25 days and just reduced to $390,000.
I pulled a profile on it and they got bought in May 2006 with an 80/20 for $637,500.
That was a year off the top of our market and there is no way this property was worth that even in the summber of 2005.
We sold a model match in summer of 04 for $480,000.
I was sitting here pondering about what a scam this must have been when I caught this post.
I know there are alot of people in trouble because the guidelines were too loose.
But this outright fraud and strong arming is disgusting.
I bet they could have sold ice to an eskimo at twice the price. |
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FLAmortgage
248 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 11:24:22 AM
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| Yep, sounds like Lennar! believe me... I know ...it's sad |
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ppulatie
1803 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 11:25:31 AM
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Lucky,
I see that all the time here in Contra Costa East County.
That is why I am referring people to lawyers in many cases.
The fraud was just too much to believe. |
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FLAmortgage
248 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 11:27:13 AM
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| That fraud has nothing to do with Florida.... that is Lennar/UAMC standard practice. |
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haiku
370 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 11:30:13 AM
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| The contract should have also stated the interest rate and the amount of the mortgage as well. They wouldn't have lost their emd. But I can certainly understand how not being the professional they thought they might. They could've, should've, would've. But they did. They signed the papers. And I am not saying blame the victim. I am just saying look at all sides of the story, not just the side they decided to tell you. We all feel sympathy over these types of things, especially hearing about it from the elderly, because of predatory lending. I am actually like ppopulatie (sp), where I help individuals save their homes and the like. I have too often put people ahead of me where I should have been looking out for myself. I am learning that lesson right now in fact. I feel sympathy, but I also look at all of the facts. It's just difficult to believe that they didn't know what they were signing. I have never witnessed a title company not explaining at least the til and the hud. I'm sure it happens, but at the same time, as an adult and the person who's name is on the new note, I think they should have asked questions, more questions. So what settlement would have been held up for a few days. I don't see how the realtor was at fault, unless the realtor was the one that placed them under pressure. As for the title company, the title search and all other searches brought back the tax amount that was due at the time. The actual house had not been recorded, so there is no way they could have known what the new tax amount would be until it was recorded. The lender? 2005, arm, what else is new. Its happened so much that it has become the norm. People bought into that arm when it was sounding good. Now that houses are being taken away, we are all up in arms. Don't get upset just because this situation is about the elderly, get upset over the situation. That's all I was saying. The fact that it was elderly people involved makes it more attractive for emotion. |
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lucky1s
3095 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 11:32:12 AM
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I have a borrower from Contra Costa County who purchased at $550,000 and just appraised at $380 on a good day.
Fortunately for her she also sold at the top. As a matter of fact, her former home is now bank owned.
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mudshark
3665 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 11:45:28 AM
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Lennar is one of the worse. Their complete control of the deal points culpability. There are many senior oriented organizations that can be found through either their religious affiliations or others that can go in and get a freeze on payments.
This isn't the first time for Lennar. A few years ago I had a deal in a tract of theirs in Central FL. $550k. These were being sold to investors in MN through a marketing firm that was to rent them out. As I recall there was about 200k going to the marketing firm. Last I heard the tract was a ghost town and the marketing firm was history leaving these guys in MN holding the bag. |
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haiku
370 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 12:01:17 PM
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| You know what is a trip... it's a trip that if someone on this board doesn't agree with the popular opinion, then they are wrong and subject of much criticism. Everytime someone posts their salary or offer ways to get a higher salary, they are hated on. It's like a person can't have a true opinion unless it fits with the "norm". So what a person makes a lot of money. So what a person doesn't feel the need to show you their tax transcript or 4506. So what a person only has to work 30 hours a week to make a higher salary. And so what a person wants to listen to ALL sides of a story before forming a relative opinion. Some of you really need to get over yourselves. If this same story was posted about someone else that wasn't elderly, and a few little words changed, the opinion would be different. We are in this business to help people help themselves and make money while doing it. If a person doesn't ask questions or doesn't have enough common sense to back away from a deal, then oh well. Get an attorney. Do I do loans that I wouldn't put my mom in? No. But that's just me. Those types of programs that many of these elderly people are now in are the same programs that many people are in and screaming to get out of. Jacking up their Checkers income to afford a mansion, and now blaming the broker because they can't afford the mortgage. People know what they can and cannot afford, and you don't need a banker or realtor to tell you. |
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lucky1s
3095 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 12:19:23 PM
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| Ever heard of edigital? |
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Shuggins
775 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 12:21:29 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mganovsky
They said they could not afford the home at that price, so closing was stopped and they were shufled into the "Sales Managers" office and told that if they wanted they could back out of the contract but they would lose the 20% they had in escrow. But if they wanted to put more money down they could and it may delay closing for a couple of days. Well they thought about it and did not want to lose the $54,800 so they put an additional $40,000 down. (which was the rest of there savings).
Now these nice folks sold thier home up north and put almost all of the profit and thier savings into this deal and did not want to lose the money. So they signed.
So Haiku are we to assume you forgot this part of their unfortunate story...
They did say they couldn't afford the mortgage and they were bullied into purchasing this. If this was your parent or granparent (Heck I would even like to assume if this was your neighbor lady) you would be outraged, however you are deciding it is their fault for being bullied.
People of all ages get bullied into doing things they do not want nor need.. |
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mganovsky
1107 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 12:22:11 PM
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Haiku:
On the Tax issue. we all know that in our industry we use the prior years tax bill. for the initial payment and qualification. But I believe if you consider your self a profesional that if you know a persons taxes are going up then you should tell them. In St Lucie County tax web site it has a tax estimator, where you put in property address and any exemptions then hit submitt and it will tell you what the estimate tax will be in a range for the new purchase price.
And you as a professional have an ethical obligation to tell your client that there payment tax bill will increase by an estimated amount. Here in Florida because of a homesteaded property could not increase more than 3% each year alot of times there is a substantial increase because of the new sales price and value..and then the house becomes un affordable, I have pissed off Realtors in the past because I told folks there tax bill will go up and showed them the web site and when they found out there new tax bill could be blank they did not want to buy the house.
I dont think in this case you are getting the point. They had a choice and could have walked away BUT they would have lost $54,800 if they did. If this was properly disclosed
they would never have gone thru with it and been able to get thier escrow back, but since it was not properly disclosed they were not aware of it until closing. As a MB you know after you pull credit, get the doc's what product you have to use. The LO knew this but failed to disclose the terms to the borrower. And if he did not know it he did not belong in our biz.
In a normal Florida Real Estate contract it states basically that you have so many days to obtain loan commitment if you are unable to obtain loan commitment then you agree to pay cash or you must notify the seller in writting 7 days prior to the closing date. If you do not let the seller know 7 days prior to closing and do not close then they can keep your escrow deposit. |
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MisterVA
4568 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 12:23:31 PM
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| btw no name in the profile is cause to get band. |
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haiku
370 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 12:25:20 PM
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| Again, read the full post, not just what you want to assume. I didn't blame them. I just said I would like to know all the facts, and not just what they said. If it were my client or a family member, and I was in that room, they would have walked from the table. Period. If you feel uncomfy about the scenario, you owe it to yourself to walk away. I ALSO SAID, that I could understand how they would perceive it since they were not the professionals in the room. |
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lucky1s
3095 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 12:26:46 PM
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| You sound a little defensive. |
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MBG
117 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 12:28:26 PM
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| that's fraud on the lender, which can be proven......they should go after that. |
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haiku
370 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 12:28:59 PM
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| I dont know florida law, but I do know real estate contracts. The time in which to obtain an approval/commitment is written in by the purchaser. Terms of the contract can change through an addendum. Our contract states that if you dispute the reasons for the nonsettlement, the escrow will remain in effect until it is settled through arbitration. It has other language as well, but they would not have lost their escrow. Were they bullied? Hell yeah. Should they have walked away regardless? Hell yeah! |
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haiku
370 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 12:30:23 PM
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| So, have me banned so I won't have any more opinions. Geesh! |
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Shuggins
775 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 12:37:03 PM
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And you are only reading the parts you want.
They get shuffled into a room with the "sales Managers" office and are told to put down $40k more. On the home that they really are in love with.
In a different state, PA to FL. Come on dude, they move across the country after working their butts off saving money and some Crook Stole their life savings.
I have admitted on the post that I used to be a Bill Collector and Im not even that cold blooded. |
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rtrefflich
1772 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 12:40:42 PM
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I think everyone has to take some blame as to what happened over the past four years. Here in So Cal REALTORs told their clients that they didn't need to worry about the mortgage becasue they would be able to refi to a new loan before that 2 yr arm with the 6 margin recasted.
I understand that the clients are responsible for what they sign, but loan docs are written by attorneys for attorneys, heck, I've been in this business for eight years or so and everytime I see a new disclosure I have to go over it 3 or 4 times to make sure I understand it.
If this client had purchased the home with no money down I wouldn't feel so bad, they bought a home and now they have lost it (or will) and their credit will be affected for a while. Worse, they put down over $100,000 that they will never recoup, and why, because they were told they needed to so they could qualify and get a loan they could afford.
I only think how different we would talk and they things we would say to clients if everything were recorded. All we have is the he said she said off of this to go by, and you and I both know that the LOs would never tell a poor little old lady those things.
quote:
Originally posted by haiku
You know what is a trip... it's a trip that if someone on this board doesn't agree with the popular opinion, then they are wrong and subject of much criticism. Everytime someone posts their salary or offer ways to get a higher salary, they are hated on. It's like a person can't have a true opinion unless it fits with the "norm". So what a person makes a lot of money. So what a person doesn't feel the need to show you their tax transcript or 4506. So what a person only has to work 30 hours a week to make a higher salary. And so what a person wants to listen to ALL sides of a story before forming a relative opinion. Some of you really need to get over yourselves. If this same story was posted about someone else that wasn't elderly, and a few little words changed, the opinion would be different. We are in this business to help people help themselves and make money while doing it. If a person doesn't ask questions or doesn't have enough common sense to back away from a deal, then oh well. Get an attorney. Do I do loans that I wouldn't put my mom in? No. But that's just me. Those types of programs that many of these elderly people are now in are the same programs that many people are in and screaming to get out of. Jacking up their Checkers income to afford a mansion, and now blaming the broker because they can't afford the mortgage. People know what they can and cannot afford, and you don't need a banker or realtor to tell you.
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MarieS
193 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 12:45:55 PM
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| Affiliations make me sick. |
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mojojojo_1
289 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 1:01:18 PM
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"Mark, refer them to an attorney before they give up."
this has to be an easy case for a lawyer. look at the financial loss due to taking advantage of them
dont the fl RE have a fudicary responsibility? i heard RE cases are going in the consumers favor and there has to hundreds of lawyer in fl that would love to repersent them |
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CreditRepGal
302 Posts |
Posted - 05/09/2008 : 2:59:22 PM
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Yeah but weren’t they told they would lose their deposit if they didn’t sign the loan? That’s not ignorant, they were bullied into taking something they didn’t want. After of course the mortgage famous bait and switch. I don’t think you read it all the way through. This is sad no matter which way you look at it.
quote:
Originally posted by haiku
Devil's advocate... sorry. But, normally, the lender sends you out separate disclosures. Even on purchases, the client has a right to read their material before signing and even after signing. If they didn't feel comfortable with it, they should not have settled. It may seem unethical what is going on, but I have a difficult time believing that these people didn't know they were getting and adjustable rate at 12%. I'm sorry! And how is it the realtor's fault? First of all, back in that time, builder reps were not required to be licensed. I don't know the rule in Florida. But now, they are required to be licensed. Title agents always skim through docs. We all know damn well that the title people dont read verbatim every last word on every last doc that is in that pile. There is only one case I know of where the title rep was forced to because the client requested or they weren't signing. That deal took a total of 8 hours to close that day. Contract law is contract law. Every person has a right to legal representation. Every real estate contract that I have ever seen has in bold capital letters at the top in some variation of this: "this is a legal binding contract. if you do not understand, please consult with an attorney." I feel jacked up about this industry and some of the things that people do. But I am also sick and tired of people claiming ignorance. Well, you sure weren't ignorant when you had glassy eyes going through that big ass model home in that posh ass subdivision. Please! Bomb me out if you want. I feel the way I feel. And we all know damn well that not every deal is a good deal.
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