Brokers keeping money from los

Author

Previous Topic | Next Topic

bellafllo

6 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2008 : 8:38:26 PM

Hi. My former broker had took $200 out of first three checks in case lo left with an appraisal unpaid and loan didn't close. When loan officers leave the company, they money is supposed to come back to the loan officer, but 60,90,120 days go by and they don't return it. Rumor as it that they haven't refunded most of them from as far back as June of last year. I know that business is down. The NV office closed. The FL office is struggling. Seems the only way to get the money back is small claims court which is a hassle. Any suggestions? B

dtabar

706 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2008 : 9:07:41 PM

Just do the smalls claims. It's not that much of a hassle. You'll most likley not go to court and he'll decide to pay you. If they're doing it to you, someone else is getting it too. Don't let them get away with it. It may be a small amount, but is the principle.

bellafllo

6 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2008 : 9:15:38 PM

Thanks. I've never been to small claims court and it sounds intimidating. And yes, they are doing it to others. With six offices and probably at least 40 new los passing through each office, it's a pretty decent amount if they can keep it. They are great at figuring how to take money from the loan officer's pocket and putting it in theirs. B

cindyhulett

166 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2008 : 9:29:47 PM

First, never add an appraisal to your loan. Let the borrower pay for it. Period. Second, there is nothing intimidating about small claims court. Good luck! Also, when you go to small claims court carry some ammunition with you, e.g. names of other lo's who have experienced this same problem with this same company. Notarized statements will help.

1stintegritymort

1289 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2008 : 9:36:40 PM

if you really wanna stir some sh*t i would call the State licensing dept. and let them know whats going. they may decide to do their own audit and then they will get theirs in the end paying out fines. even if you win a judgment it will probably be a year before you see the money.

bellafllo

6 Posts

Posted - 05/03/2008 : 9:42:38 PM

I never let a customer invoice the appraisal to the company. Not once, so there is no question that I am due all my money. And $600 pays a couple of bills so I'd like it back as it is MY money. Funny thing, I tried several government agencies including licensing and they didn't seem to care. I guess small claims court is in my future.

mschwader

90 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2008 : 12:26:46 PM

How much are appraisers charging for reports in your area? $600? Is that right? Wow, I'm gonna go be an appraiser by you.

quote:
Originally posted by bellafllo

I never let a customer invoice the appraisal to the company. Not once, so there is no question that I am due all my money. And $600 pays a couple of bills so I'd like it back as it is MY money. Funny thing, I tried several government agencies including licensing and they didn't seem to care. I guess small claims court is in my future.

kellamtom

609 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2008 : 12:31:05 PM

small claims is very informal, most of the time the justice of peace isn't even a lawyer, cost of filing is very minimal just remember to provide proof that he owes you money, send letter via certified mail demanding your money with 10 days to pay and if no response file your suit; small claims is very similar to judge judy as seen on tv only a little less dramatic

slants

4189 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2008 : 3:25:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by kellamtom

small claims is very informal, most of the time the justice of peace isn't even a lawyer, cost of filing is very minimal just remember to provide proof that he owes you money, send letter via certified mail demanding your money with 10 days to pay and if no response file your suit; small claims is very similar to judge judy as seen on tv only a little less dramatic

Not a lawyer? Pretty sure they must be lawyers to practice law and render decisions. They are not always full fledged judges though and some are commissioners or the equivalent. Make sure you check your state's requirement for making a demand for payment and proof of service. If not documented properly and summons is not served on the right party, it'll get thrown out at trial and you'd have to start over.

bellafllo

6 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2008 : 5:57:47 PM

it would be so much nicer if they would give people what is rightfully theirs. it just seems wrong that i have to go to court to get money they took from me. thanks for all the good advice.

kellamtom

609 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2008 : 6:27:08 PM

quote:
Originally posted by bellafllo

it would be so much nicer if they would give people what is rightfully theirs. it just seems wrong that i have to go to court to get money they took from me. thanks for all the good advice.

be sure to sue him for cost of the filing and damages, I would probably research whatever the fine is for that amount of theft and sue him for several thousand over what he actually owes,

MisterVA

5815 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2008 : 6:28:53 PM

Small claims amounts to a filing fee of $25-50. Fill out the form & make a copy of it. Give the copy to the guy holding your money. Tell him he has one week to pay you what he owes you or you will file the claim.

slants

4189 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2008 : 11:51:40 PM

The courts have specific requirements about how much time must lapse after a written demand for payment before a suit may be brought. Need to pull up your small claims procedures or call the court for info. You can only sue for $ amounts you can document is owed. Even if damages are availabe, one must document how you have been damaged. Not going to happen here. Really important if it is a corporation to pull up the corporate records for the person designated as the "officer for process service". Good idea to pay the sheriffs to process the service to ensure the summons is served properly and proof of service is fool proof and can't get tossed at trial (sheriff's service availble in CA for about $30+, don't know about where you are).

1stintegritymort

1289 Posts

Posted - 05/04/2008 : 11:59:18 PM

go to the secretary of state's website and do an "entity search". that will give you the information for principals of the company as well as the resident agent. i would definitely send the sheriff out to serve both parties so you know you did it right. i also would sue the principals personally along with the corporation. doing it that way gives you the right to put it on the individuals credit report and also file a UCC against the company. it will be much easier to collect this way. the last thing they want is a judgment on their credit. also, if you can obtain a copy of a paycheck from another employee, you have their account information and can levy their account for the full amount without much of a hassle.

bellafllo

6 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2008 : 05:01:59 AM

great information. i like the idea of a judgement. they really have a sense that they are superior to the rest of us and can do as they please. they deducted the cost of an appraisal from someone's check ($350) and then didn't use the money to pay the appraiser. just kept the money until the appraiser happened to tell the lo he was still waiting for the money and the lo went nuts. sleazy stuff. they don't pay their bills (so maybe they don't care about their credit). even if i never got a penny, when i close my eyes and imagine them getting served, it makes me smile. but i do want the money. their corporate offices are in ohio and i'm in florida. i imagine that will make it trickier.

erikwebster

4028 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2008 : 06:22:21 AM

have the regulatory department come in and do a audit, thats more of a nightmare for them than anything else you can do. unlike a court of law usually a state DRE or banking commmission starts with the premise that they are guilty until proven innocent.

slants

4189 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2008 : 07:33:17 AM

They may settle out of court to avoid a judgment, if not, they may not even go to court to defend it. If you win a judgment, keep in mind that you can get enough of them to wallpaper your office, but if they open another account, you won't find it and you may never see the money. Do they own a branch office or does the corporate office own that branch as well? You must identify the right person to sue. CA has court provided small claims advisors, hopefully they are available where you are. There are also 3rd party companies who will do the entire filing on your behalf and all you do is show up for court. If the principals are located out of state and you must sue and appear in court out of state, you have to consider the time and cost. This is the reason they pull their stunt. They are betting that an LO would not bother spending time and money to chase $600. Good luck.

slants

4189 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2008 : 07:42:37 AM

quote:
Originally posted by erikwebster

have the regulatory department come in and do a audit, thats more of a nightmare for them than anything else you can do. unlike a court of law usually a state DRE or banking commmission starts with the premise that they are guilty until proven innocent.

Not as easy to do as it seems. The DRE will not get involved in money disputes between agents and their brokers. The regulators will not act or launch an investigation against a broker for fraud or wrongdoing unless you provide hard solid documentation in black and white. Any accusations you make and cannot back up ends up being potentially libelous and could get you sued by the broker.

djorge44

1206 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2008 : 08:06:47 AM

What is the company name?

slants

4189 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2008 : 08:22:39 AM

BTW, if they operate as a corportion, you more than likely will not get personal judgments as it is the company that owes you money.

EMScommercial

4691 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2008 : 09:24:20 AM

cindy is right.... and secondly, we have the borrower sign a document that the borrower is personally responsible to pay for appraisal, survey, inspections, etc..... we order the appraisal, but the document goes with the order.... the borrower ALWAYS pays for their services..... we never get stuck for this foolishness....

small claims is not a biggie.... just have all your docs.... you can be in and out in a very short amount of time.....

slants

4189 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2008 : 09:33:15 AM

quote:
Originally posted by EMScommercial

cindy is right.... and secondly, we have the borrower sign a document that the borrower is personally responsible to pay for appraisal, survey, inspections, etc..... we order the appraisal, but the document goes with the order.... the borrower ALWAYS pays for their services..... we never get stuck for this foolishness....

small claims is not a biggie.... just have all your docs.... you can be in and out in a very short amount of time.....

All depends on whether they respond or fight. My small claims case against a former broker took 6 months and many appearances after filing to win at appeals trial after he used every delay tactic available (he appealed the default judgment against him for no show). Collecting after winning is another issue. Many win and never collect. Good luck with this.

1003s.com

3025 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2008 : 11:38:59 AM

Beth,

The best thing to do would be to move on,

and try and forgive and forget.

If you are not able to do that, have a lawyer review

your contract with them. There might be some

some legal and or business ways, to cost them some money,

you may not have thought of yet.

bellafllo

6 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2008 : 5:04:06 PM

i'm not sure i can say the name of the company.

as for moving on, yes, that would be great, but I'd don't like to walk away from money and even more importantly I don't like to let bullies prosper. It's just that simple. They shouldn't be able to take money that isn't theirs and refuse to give it back when asked politely for it.

slants

4189 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2008 : 5:14:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by bellafllo

i'm not sure i can say the name of the company.

as for moving on, yes, that would be great, but I'd don't like to walk away from money and even more importantly I don't like to let bullies prosper. It's just that simple. They shouldn't be able to take money that isn't theirs and refuse to give it back when asked politely for it.

EXACTLY! I went through 6 months of hell with it. It was emptionally draining, but it became more about principle than the money, even though it was in excess of $6,000 of my hard earned dollars. It was beyond important to me to show the guy that he cannot get away with bullying and stealing from his agents who work hard for their money. I didn't care whether I collected, but it was ultra important for me to win and send him a message (I did get him to perform) . More power to you!

cspatmon

1111 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2008 : 5:19:29 PM

If more LOs stood up for their rights we will all be better off for it! Forgiving has a place but not when it comes to my hard earned money!......

1003s.com

3025 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2008 : 6:41:14 PM

I am sure there are some business ways,

to cost them a good deal more than $600, that is,

if they keep the doors open awhile longer.

CoolMtgGuy

1959 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2008 : 6:54:20 PM

Like some have stated, even when you are in the right, it can, and usually will, cost you money, effort, time and emotional enery to stand up for principle.

If you are willing to pay the price, I recommend that you retain an attorney to represent your case. Using an attorney will get a different response from the broker than pursuing this through small claims court. If you win a court case, you should notify the local media, the licensing authorities and put a lien on the broker's property. Then move on with your life knowing that you did all that you could.

johnnyboy38109

2516 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2008 : 8:47:31 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 1003s.com

Beth,

The best thing to do would be to move on,

and try and forgive and forget.

If you are not able to do that, have a lawyer review

your contract with them. There might be some

some legal and or business ways, to cost them some money,

you may not have thought of yet.

agreed.......the guy's broke as hell and wont pay anyway.

slants

4189 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2008 : 9:11:38 PM

quote:
Originally posted by CoolMtgGuy

If you are willing to pay the price, I recommend that you retain an attorney to represent your case. Using an attorney will get a different response from the broker than pursuing this through small claims court. If you win a court case, you should notify the local media, the licensing authorities and put a lien on the broker's property. Then move on with your life knowing that you did all that you could.

While it's true that one may obtain better results in many situations with legal representation just by virtue of the respect and intimidation lawyers can engender, this falls under small claims $ amount where legal representation is not permitted. An attorney may not file this suit in any other court. The $600, even if collected, will barely pay for a couple of billable hours. Even if she has other claims that can stick and will exceed small claims threshhold of $5,000, she will have to put a lawyer on retainer for the next year or two for $20,000 to $40,000 to bring suit in civil court. There is just nothing to be done here other than small claims.

1003s.com

3025 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2008 : 9:23:52 PM

quote:
Originally posted by slants

[quote][i]While it's true that one may obtain better results in many situations with legal representation just by virtue of the respect and intimidation lawyers can engender, this falls under small claims $ amount where legal representation is not permitted. An attorney may not file this suit in any other court. The $600, even if collected, will barely pay for a couple of billable hours. Even if she has other claims that can stick and will exceed small claims threshhold of $5,000, she will have to put a lawyer on retainer for the next year or two for $20,000 to $40,000 to bring suit in civil court. There is just nothing to be done here other than small claims.

Helen,

The rules for small claims courts vary by state and by county. IE, in Dupage County IL,

the court room would be filled up with lawyers, and their cases would be heard

hours before a non-lawyers case.

slants

4189 Posts

Posted - 05/05/2008 : 9:31:17 PM

quote:
Originally posted by 1003s.com

quote:
Originally posted by slants

[quote][i]While it's true that one may obtain better results in many situations with legal representation just by virtue of the respect and intimidation lawyers can engender, this falls under small claims $ amount where legal representation is not permitted. An attorney may not file this suit in any other court. The $600, even if collected, will barely pay for a couple of billable hours. Even if she has other claims that can stick and will exceed small claims threshhold of $5,000, she will have to put a lawyer on retainer for the next year or two for $20,000 to $40,000 to bring suit in civil court. There is just nothing to be done here other than small claims.
Helen,

The rules for small claims courts vary by state and by county. In Dupage County IL,

the court room would be filled up with lawyers, and their cases would be heard

hours before a non-lawyers case.

If that's the case where she is, I would hire a lawyer, even though the $600 may not be sufficient to pay all legal fees by the time it's done, but the result may be what counts here.

kellamtom

609 Posts

Posted - 05/06/2008 : 04:23:32 AM

you could always hire a local aggressive collection agency, they will annoy the heck out of him

Previous Topic | Next Topic