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100yrFixed
41 Posts |
 Posted - 04/27/2008 : 3:26:24 PM
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When disputing items on a credit report, if there are duplicate derog. accounts showing on a credit report (2 of the same Verizon accounts which are now charge-offs) can they be disputed as being duplicate and have one removed. Would that have a major impact on the fico score??
Is it normal practice to post the same account twice with a little variation between the two?? |
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RMB - LO
7 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2008 : 4:43:28 PM
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Aloha -
Also, is there a way we can verify how many points are being deducted on each derogetory/collection item?
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CreditTechnologi
449 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2008 : 4:52:38 PM
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You need to determine if the accounts are duplicated on a single repository, or just appear on your tri merge as result of an error in the merge logic.
If both accounts appear on one repository - they are negatively impacting your FICO score. How much of a FICO impact the removal of one of the accounts would have depends on the ages of the accounts and the other data on the consumers file. Your CRA should provide access to CreditXpert tools that enable you to simulate the removal of the account(s) and see in real time any potential score change.
You didn't indicate if the account(s) were paid or not. You need to be careful when disputing older charge off or collection accounts. If they end up being verified, or even updated to show paid status, there is the potential for the FICO scores to drop - especially if they turn out to be separate accounts.
This is a simple issue, your CRA should be able to give you a hand including disputing the accounts if needed.
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CreditTechnologi
449 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2008 : 5:00:37 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by RMB - LO
Aloha -
Also, is there a way we can verify how many points are being deducted on each derogetory/collection item?
Sure, the CreditXpert "What if Simulator" allow you to edit most any tradeline including adding/removing accounts to determine what if any FICO change would result. Odds are your CRA offers it. We provide more information on CreditXpert on our website at http://credittechnologies.com/creditXpert.asp
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jenalpha
643 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2008 : 6:55:03 PM
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| also, don't dispute anything that has a dla or report date older than 6 months. I thought it was 2 years, but recently I noticed if it is older than 6 months, it can hurt the credit instead of help it! |
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100yrFixed
41 Posts |
Posted - 04/27/2008 : 10:13:59 PM
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One account is listed twice has been paid with a 0 balance from 05, another account is listed twice they look the same but theres one digit in the account number thats diffrent opened in 03 and last payment in 05, one listing is from experian and the other is the other 2 CRAs. Another account is listed twice has a 30 dollar difference in credit limits, has diffrent balance owed and opened on diffrent dates one on 03 the other in 02 no balance and account closed by grantor, this possibly could be a fraudulent account. My client says he only has had one of each accounts but there may be more that what he tells me.
What about medical accounts, are those in any way diffrent to dispute or harder to remove?? |
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CreditTechnologi
449 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2008 : 04:35:25 AM
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It's difficult to determine the best course of action without seeing the report. The variances in account numbers and open dates suggest these are different accounts. Your CRA should be able to look at this file and provide the answers in a matter of minutes.
As for medical accounts, from a scoring perspective, they have the same impact as any collection account and disputes are handled the same, either directly through your CRA or through www.AnnualCreditReport.com.
Because of the way FICO uses dates in it's calculations, you need to be careful disputing the accounts with balances. There is a good chance the result could be a lower FICO score. It's often not knowing what to do, but knowing what "not" to do.
Originators often get "tunnel vision" focusing only on any derogatory data appearing on a file. Depending on the dates of those item(s), they may be having little impact on the consumer's FICO score. Look at the factors listed below the score, remembering they are listed in order of what is having the most negative impact. Other, far simpler options to improve the consumer's score may exist. You didn't indicate what your current scores or score goals are - all are part of determining what actions are needed.
Also important - When a consumer initiates a dispute on a tradeline (either directly or through a credit repair company) that item is locked until the dispute is completed. We often see items that could have been corrected in 24 hours through rapid rescoring that take weeks due to the presence of an unresolved consumer dispute. Call your CRA and have them review this file for you. It's a relatively simple process to analyze the file and determine an action plan. If they are unable to help, give me a call and I'll go though it with you.
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Banker0679
7715 Posts |
Posted - 04/28/2008 : 07:22:37 AM
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| if these are the oldest accounts on their credit report then i wouldn't dispute it. |
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hpmfinancial
1222 Posts |
Posted - 05/07/2008 : 8:09:51 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by jenalpha
also, don't dispute anything that has a dla or report date older than 6 months. I thought it was 2 years, but recently I noticed if it is older than 6 months, it can hurt the credit instead of help it!
That is not true, if they are inaccurate items you should dispute them. It will not hurt the credit to dispute them, it can only help. If you would like I can help you put together a dispute letter free of charge. |
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CreditTechnologi
449 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 04:43:38 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by hpmfinancial
quote:
Originally posted by jenalpha
also, don't dispute anything that has a dla or report date older than 6 months. I thought it was 2 years, but recently I noticed if it is older than 6 months, it can hurt the credit instead of help it!
That is not true, if they are inaccurate items you should dispute them. It will not hurt the credit to dispute them, it can only help. If you would like I can help you put together a dispute letter free of charge.
This advice is wrong and potentially harmful to consumers. There are many instances where it is not in the consumers best interest to dispute an account.
Jennifer is correct - When older collection or charge off items are disputed (through AnnualCreditReport.com or by paying a credit repair agency) and the creditor verifies the data (as frequently happens.) The verified tradelines often contain updated balance, past due and reporting dates. The newly reported data can have a significant negative impact to the consumers FICO score. Funny how credit repair providers never mention this, perhaps it's because they are prohibited access to consumer credit data and FICO scores.
If the "inaccurate" item is so old it is having little if any impact on the consumer's FICO scores - why would you recommend the consumer go through the dispute process (or worse yet pay a credit repair company to do the same) when there is little chance of FICO improvement and significant risk that the updated item will result in a drop in their FICO scores?
As Banker eluded to, even if a tradeline contains delinquency data, if it happens to be the among oldest tradelines reported - the removal of that tradeline can result in a lower FICO core - or no score at all.
Many credit repair providers (not all) have so little clue as to how FICO scoring works, they often provide advice that will actually lower FICO scores (even if they succeed in removing an account) or promote actions that have no impact on FICO scores at all, such as opting out.
Should any consumer need to dispute an item on their credit report, there is no need to write and mail a letter. It can all be done faster and at no cost online at www.AnnualCreditReport.com and compliments of the FACT Act, the dispute process now includes the ability to talk toll-free with live customer support at each repository. (here's the step-by-step http://credittechnologies.com/Ultimate_Credit_Repair.asp)
It's possible to get disputes handled in days - and at no cost whatsoever.
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hpmfinancial
1222 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 11:55:41 AM
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| Thomas, if the item was inaccurate, it should be deleted now shouldn't it? Then how would deleting a negative item hurt you? |
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100yrFixed
41 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 12:02:12 PM
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| Right, what about an old dulicate derogetory item thats inaccurate, wouldnt that be deleted all together and help raise the FICO???? |
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Banker0679
7715 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 12:06:06 PM
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believe it or not it hurts.
history is actually one of the most important parts of your credit file. Whether it's good or bad.
I have seen ppl remove BK, and the credit score dropping.
The older your credit file...the higher your score.
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100yrFixed
41 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 12:15:46 PM
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| so your telling me history weather that be good or bad has some benificial value to the FICO score... |
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CreditTechnologi
449 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 1:08:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by hpmfinancial
Thomas, if the item was inaccurate, it should be deleted now shouldn't it? Then how would deleting a negative item hurt you?
MOST items disputed through credit repair AREN'T deleted - They end up being verified by the creditor and lowering the consumer's FICO score.
Credit repair companies don't typically tell consumers to dispute only the items they believe are in error, they generally have them dispute anything they believe is derogatory with the hopes of creating the perception they improved the consumer's credit report (all the while oblivious to the impact to their FICO score.)
Universal truth - the older an item becomes, good or bad - the less impact it has on a FICO score.
From a FICO scoring perspective, the value of deleting a 5 year old account that had a 1X30 is close to nothing, yet credit repair companies will sing triumphant that they were able to remove a derogatory item. If the concern truly was removing items reported in error, the consumer can do that themselves online faster than any credit repair company and at no cost.
EVEN IF an older derogatory item is deleted, it can still result in the lowering of the consumers FICO score. This is a great example of how blindly disputing any item containing derogatory data is bad advice and how so many self-proclaimed credit repair experts have no clue how FICO scoring works.
It's not about "gaming" the system to try and obtain a deletion (or temporary deletion) based on a technicality. It's about understanding how FICO scoring works and using that knowledge to better assist your borrower's and visa via creating a competitive advantage for yourself.
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hpmfinancial
1222 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 1:15:34 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CreditTechnologies
quote:
Originally posted by hpmfinancial
Thomas, if the item was inaccurate, it should be deleted now shouldn't it? Then how would deleting a negative item hurt you?
MOST items disputed through credit repair AREN'T deleted - They end up being verified by the creditor and lowering the consumer's FICO score.
Credit repair companies don't typically tell consumers to dispute only the items they believe are in error, they generally have them dispute anything they believe is derogatory with the hopes of creating the perception they improved the consumer's credit report (all the while oblivious to the impact to their FICO score.)
Universal truth - the older an item becomes, good or bad - the less impact it has on a FICO score.
From a FICO scoring perspective, the value of deleting a 5 year old account that had a 1X30 is close to nothing, yet credit repair companies will sing triumphant that they were able to remove a derogatory item. If the concern truly was removing items reported in error, the consumer can do that themselves online faster than any credit repair company and at no cost.
EVEN IF an older derogatory item is deleted, it can still result in the lowering of the consumers FICO score. This is a great example of how blindly disputing any item containing derogatory data is bad advice and how so many self-proclaimed credit repair experts have no clue how FICO scoring works.
It's not about "gaming" the system to try and obtain a deletion (or temporary deletion) based on a technicality. It's about understanding how FICO scoring works and using that knowledge to better assist your borrower's and visa via creating a competitive advantage for yourself.
You make a lot of broad generalized statements. It is understandable as guys like Thomas want you to have bad credit. People with bad credit on average get their credit run more then four times as much as those with good credit. Since Thomas gets paid each time your credit gets run through his company, he wants you to fail.
Right now we average a higher then 45% deletion ration of negative items within the first 45 days of our service, and after a few months we average a higher then a 70% deletion ration of negative items.
There is a law called the FCRA that is designed to protect you, what we do is help people use the laws to their advantage. There is no reason whatsoever to allow credit bureaus to keep incorrect items on your credit.
http://www.marke*****ch.com/news/story/fixing-credit-report-error-can-tough/story.aspx?guid=%7BE3128879-8D33-4AA9-A38B-7CD6AACFB2CE%7D
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CreditTechnologi
449 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 1:48:40 PM
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What a ridiculuos response....
Mortgage credit bureaus succeed only when our clients succeed in closing loans. It's not in our best interests for consumers to have lower scores.
Beyond that, your rhetoric warrants no reply. Most anyone reading your posts and the ill advice you provide will quickly determine you simply haven't a clue.
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hpmfinancial
1222 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 2:54:56 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CreditTechnologies
What a ridiculuos response....
Mortgage credit bureaus succeed only when our clients succeed in closing loans. It's not in our best interests for consumers to have lower scores.
Beyond that, your rhetoric warrants no reply. Most anyone reading your posts and the ill advice you provide will quickly determine you simply haven't a clue.
Do you get paid when a credit report is run or when a mortgage closes? Please stop with the outrageous lies Thomas. |
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CreditTechnologi
449 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 3:59:54 PM
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Hayden - Your lack of knowledge is obvious. Responding to your personal attacks isn't worth my time. Good luck with your credit repair antics.
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hpmfinancial
1222 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 5:03:54 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CreditTechnologies
Hayden - Your lack of knowledge is obvious. Responding to your personal attacks isn't worth my time. Good luck with your credit repair antics.
Personal attack? I just call you on your BS when I see it. Are you telling me that you don't charge for credit unless your LO closes a loan? |
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Banker0679
7715 Posts |
Posted - 05/08/2008 : 6:36:33 PM
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you haven't done credit repair before...
if you delete an old collection account AND it's one of the oldest or oldest account on your credit file, IT WILL LOWER YOUR SCORE.
Also, I didn't know there were Mortgage Credit Bureaus....
I thought you were only a credit provider not a credit bureau
quote:
Originally posted by CreditTechnologies
quote:
Originally posted by hpmfinancial
Thomas, if the item was inaccurate, it should be deleted now shouldn't it? Then how would deleting a negative item hurt you?
MOST items disputed through credit repair AREN'T deleted - They end up being verified by the creditor and lowering the consumer's FICO score.
Credit repair companies don't typically tell consumers to dispute only the items they believe are in error, they generally have them dispute anything they believe is derogatory with the hopes of creating the perception they improved the consumer's credit report (all the while oblivious to the impact to their FICO score.)
Universal truth - the older an item becomes, good or bad - the less impact it has on a FICO score.
From a FICO scoring perspective, the value of deleting a 5 year old account that had a 1X30 is close to nothing, yet credit repair companies will sing triumphant that they were able to remove a derogatory item. If the concern truly was removing items reported in error, the consumer can do that themselves online faster than any credit repair company and at no cost.
EVEN IF an older derogatory item is deleted, it can still result in the lowering of the consumers FICO score. This is a great example of how blindly disputing any item containing derogatory data is bad advice and how so many self-proclaimed credit repair experts have no clue how FICO scoring works.
It's not about "gaming" the system to try and obtain a deletion (or temporary deletion) based on a technicality. It's about understanding how FICO scoring works and using that knowledge to better assist your borrower's and visa via creating a competitive advantage for yourself.
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htdifinancial
1478 Posts |
Posted - 05/13/2008 : 06:31:40 AM
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| verification of a negative item does NOT LOWER a score. Where a verified item may affect the Date of Status, it will not affect the Date of Last Activity, which is the date that affects the score. |
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1paul
275 Posts |
Posted - 05/19/2008 : 8:04:07 PM
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You also need to be careful about filing a Dispute "online'...
I understand that they can come back & add it back into your file later. there is some loophole that the Creditors have with the "Online Filing of Disputes", that allows them to come-back after the 30 days, & get the "Validated" item added back on the Credit Report...which will probably DROP their score. I have recommended that they follow the "Debt Validation Procedure" & mail in their Dispute, & send it Return-Receipt Requested...
FREE INFO.: www.creditinfocenter.com
"Debt" Tab & go down to "Debt Validation"...print that out & follow it step-by-step.
I would appreciate any response to the accuracy of this information by any NON-PAID-Service Providers, who will be honest & objective!
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Banker0679
7715 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2008 : 11:16:21 AM
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what loophole?
I have had my borrowers do it this way since around 2000, and the accounts never came back.
A lot of collection companies may or may not comply with all of the requested info on the validation. What are you going to do then? Send another letter? If they dont respond then are you going to take them to court? Seriously how many americans have the time or money to take them to court?
quote:
Originally posted by 1paul
You also need to be careful about filing a Dispute "online'...
I understand that they can come back & add it back into your file later. there is some loophole that the Creditors have with the "Online Filing of Disputes", that allows them to come-back after the 30 days, & get the "Validated" item added back on the Credit Report...which will probably DROP their score. I have recommended that they follow the "Debt Validation Procedure" & mail in their Dispute, & send it Return-Receipt Requested...
FREE INFO.: www.creditinfocenter.com
"Debt" Tab & go down to "Debt Validation"...print that out & follow it step-by-step.
I would appreciate any response to the accuracy of this information by any NON-PAID-Service Providers, who will be honest & objective!
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American Credit
358 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2008 : 11:23:14 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by 1paul
You also need to be careful about filing a Dispute "online'...
I understand that they can come back & add it back into your file later. there is some loophole that the Creditors have with the "Online Filing of Disputes", that allows them to come-back after the 30 days, & get the "Validated" item added back on the Credit Report...which will probably DROP their score. I have recommended that they follow the "Debt Validation Procedure" & mail in their Dispute, & send it Return-Receipt Requested...
FREE INFO.: www.creditinfocenter.com
"Debt" Tab & go down to "Debt Validation"...print that out & follow it step-by-step.
I would appreciate any response to the accuracy of this information by any NON-PAID-Service Providers, who will be honest & objective!
This is not true though some credit repair companies that don't know their way around electronic disputing make these claims. Instead they rely entirely on the simple mail-in-disputes. There is no loophole that allows items to come back after a deletion. |
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1paul
275 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2008 : 11:34:45 AM
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I was not referring to after an item was Deleted....I have heard where an item that was removed, due to not Validating within the 30 days, & then, was able to come-back later, & then, Validate the Debt, & the Derog. Creditor/Acct. was added-back into their credit report...
I heard this from a guy who used to work at: EFX |
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American Credit
358 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2008 : 11:37:32 AM
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| Though that is very rare (I have never seen it happen) it could just as likely happen with written disputes. |
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Banker0679
7715 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2008 : 11:45:22 AM
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everyone these are the keywords.
hearsay doesnt make it gospel
quote:
Originally posted by 1paul
I was not referring to after an item was Deleted....I have heard where an item that was removed, due to not Validating within the 30 days, & then, was able to come-back later, & then, Validate the Debt, & the Derog. Creditor/Acct. was added-back into their credit report...
I heard this from a guy who used to work at: EFX
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hherrm
1284 Posts |
Posted - 05/20/2008 : 8:25:13 PM
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I pulled a credit report today from a client that paid $800 to a credit repair company about 6 months ago. His score went up to a 626 but he still shows over 20 items disputed, some were collections from 2003.
How can all those disputed items still show when there are only 30 days for the creditor to respond and it should be deleted? Who exactly watches for the 30 days to go by? Is it the credit repair co. or the CRA that would delete the accounts?
Since they still show disputed, I'm thinking that there must have been no responce from the creditor. |
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American Credit
358 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 08:19:46 AM
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It probably says something like "Consumer Disputes This Item" right? What probably happened is that the creditor was able to verify it, however the bureaus will add notation that the consumer disputes this account. In some cases there will be a note that says "file meets FCRA" or something along those lines.
It all just means that the item was verified as valid, no changes will be made, but they do note that the consumer disagress (doesn't help the borrower at all). |
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htdifinancial
1478 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 10:07:13 AM
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| lol, just like the 100 word statement |
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American Credit
358 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 10:53:36 AM
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| exactly |
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hpmfinancial
1222 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 11:53:22 AM
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| 100 word statements don't get you anywhere. |
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American Credit
358 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 11:58:32 AM
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| Exactly |
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hherrm
1284 Posts |
Posted - 05/21/2008 : 9:56:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by American Credit Repair
It probably says something like "Consumer Disputes This Item" right? What probably happened is that the creditor was able to verify it, however the bureaus will add notation that the consumer disputes this account. In some cases there will be a note that says "file meets FCRA" or something along those lines.
It all just means that the item was verified as valid, no changes will be made, but they do note that the consumer disagress (doesn't help the borrower at all).
That does make sense. My concern is how an underwriter will look at this with 20 disputed items on report.
My thoughts are that it was a flaky credit repair company for even disputing collections as far back as 2003.
I always thought that credit repair companies look at the present and see what keeps the score down. Why not update new collections to reflect the original date instead of disputing everything on the report? The collections are most likely valid when they originally happen, but would not affect todays score. But, if resold and reported as new, yes it will affect the score.
This is just my opinion of what I see on a daily basis, most people that paid a big chunk of change to get their credit score improved end up with less than they had before getting started. |
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American Credit
358 Posts |
Posted - 05/22/2008 : 07:21:57 AM
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I'm not sure if I agree with that, but a customer does need to do some homework before hiring a company to make sure they aren't getting involved with an amateur. Sometimes if old collections are being reporting and still have "9" ratings it is best to dispute them. The status date may update but the date of last activity should not, the status date doesn't effect the score.
I'm not sure how your underwriter will look at the disputes. What I would tell them is that everyone has a right to dispute the information on their credit without penalty. They could be disputing a balance, date of last activity, open date, etc. It doesn't necessarily mean that your client was claiming it wasn't theirs.........that's what I would try to convey to the underwriter.
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johnnyboy38109
2207 Posts |
Posted - 05/30/2008 : 6:27:31 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by CreditTechnologies
quote:
Originally posted by hpmfinancial
quote:
Originally posted by jenalpha
also, don't dispute anything that has a dla or report date older than 6 months. I thought it was 2 years, but recently I noticed if it is older than 6 months, it can hurt the credit instead of help it!
That is not true, if they are inaccurate items you should dispute them. It will not hurt the credit to dispute them, it can only help. If you would like I can help you put together a dispute letter free of charge.
This advice is wrong and potentially harmful to consumers. There are many instances where it is not in the consumers best interest to dispute an account.
Jennifer is correct - When older collection or charge off items are disputed (through AnnualCreditReport.com or by paying a credit repair agency) and the creditor verifies the data (as frequently happens.) The verified tradelines often contain updated balance, past due and reporting dates. The newly reported data can have a significant negative impact to the consumers FICO score. Funny how credit repair providers never mention this, perhaps it's because they are prohibited access to consumer credit data and FICO scores.
If the "inaccurate" item is so old it is having little if any impact on the consumer's FICO scores - why would you recommend the consumer go through the dispute process (or worse yet pay a credit repair company to do the same) when there is little chance of FICO improvement and significant risk that the updated item will result in a drop in their FICO scores?
As Banker eluded to, even if a tradeline contains delinquency data, if it happens to be the among oldest tradelines reported - the removal of that tradeline can result in a lower FICO core - or no score at all.
Many credit repair providers (not all) have so little clue as to how FICO scoring works, they often provide advice that will actually lower FICO scores (even if they succeed in removing an account) or promote actions that have no impact on FICO scores at all, such as opting out.
Should any consumer need to dispute an item on their credit report, there is no need to write and mail a letter. It can all be done faster and at no cost online at www.AnnualCreditReport.com and compliments of the FACT Act, the dispute process now includes the ability to talk toll-free with live customer support at each repository. (here's the step-by-step http://credittechnologies.com/Ultimate_Credit_Repair.asp)
It's possible to get disputes handled in days - and at no cost whatsoever.
Wow, great reply. |
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