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cpruitt

1580 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2008 :  2:32:18 PM
From HousingWire:

quote:
Report: Brokered B&C Loans More Costly
By PAUL JACKSON
Published: April 9, 2008

New research from a well-known consumer advocacy group, released earlier this week, claims that subprime borrowers with brokered loans end up paying significantly more than their counterparts who deal directly with lenders. The study is the latest blow to the brokered mortgage model, which industry critics have argued help fuel questionable lending practices now threatening millions of homeowners.

According to a study conduction by the Center for Responsible Lending, in the first four years of a mortgage, a typical subprime borrower who has gone through a broker pays $5,222 more than if he or she obtained the loan directly from a lender.

“These findings confirm that mortgage brokers steer many of the most vulnerable borrowers to higher-priced loans than they deserve,” said CRL president Michael Calhoun. “At a time when one out of five families with a subprime loan is losing their home, we must rid the market of perverse incentives that practically guarantee overcharges.”

The research — the group claims it is the first to empirically examine the effect of broker compensation on a broad spectrum of borrowers — reveals what it calls “troubling patterns.”

Over the 30-year span of a loan, the cost difference between a loan obtained via a broker and a retail-originated loan grows to almost $36,000, the group alleges. The report also argues that for borrowers with better credit, the difference in loan prices is less pronounced — and that borrowers with very high credit scores may actually fare better by going the third-party route.

The CRL said that yield spread premium, which it characterized as “kickbacks from lenders,” gave brokers an incentive to steer borrowers into overpriced products.

The report is an interesting one for industry participants, many of whom are accustomed to a knee jerk reaction against CRL studies. In this case, industry managers interviewed by Housing Wire expressed a different tone.

“I can’t believe I’m going to agree with the CRL,” said one source, who asked not to be named, “but I think most of us on the origination side wouldn’t be surprised by what their study is finding — even if agreeing with the CRL makes me sort of sick to my stomach.”

For more information, visit http://www.responsiblelending.org.


Here was my response:
quote:


The author of the study, Keith Ernst, Senior Policy Counsel, CRL , says in his statement attached to the release of the report that “Second, subprime lenders pay more to mortgage brokers who charge above market rates. Specifically, if a broker can convince a borrower to accept a loan with a higher rate, the lender will pay the broker a bonus payment called a yield spread premium. These payments exist in the prime market too, but the incentives are different and the resulting payments are smaller.”

http://shrunklink.com/aosb

I’m making no judgment yet on the rest of the report since I haven’t read it, but the last sentence in that paragraph is incorrect. Yield spread payments to mortgage brokers available on subprime loans have been seriously limited for the last 10 years in comparison to yield spread payments available on conventional or FHA loans. Any damaged credit potential subprime borrower that could be squeezed into a conventional or FHA loan would get a lower rate and still be much more profitable to the mortgage broker. If extra yield spread premium was the brokers’ only motive, the incentive was to give the borrower the better loan.

The author’s conclusions about higher costs for borrowers may indeed be correct, but the proposed solution incorrect since this basic assumption of the author is wrong. The mortgage industry is clearly in the middle of a train wreck, but the CRL has a certain agenda and it seems they are trying to fit the results of this report into it rather than actually find a solution.

Perhaps another one of their backers is ready to short sale some more mortgage stocks?

http://shrunklink.com/anxu

assassin17

2858 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2008 :  2:39:27 PM
Let me see... People with a rotten financial history and bad risk pay higher all-around costs to borrow very large amounts of money from someone else.

Yeah, we really needed a study to determine that.

So, let's get this straight... Lenders can make higher profits for taking a higher risk, but Brokers can't justify more profit from a client that takes at least 3 times the work to complete.

Whatever.
omarglz

105 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2008 :  2:42:38 PM
Well said assassin!!
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cpruitt

1580 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2008 :  3:09:14 PM
Most of these people would have (maybe should have?) been told no and never had a chance to buy a house without subprime. If they could have fit into conventional or FHA most brokers would have put them there and made more money than subprime. So I'm assuming the choices were usually subprime or turned down.

And there are a lot of factors that can't be accounted for in a large statistical study like that. Things they probably didn't even have access to like how long was available to close, what was the job history, would the builder allow FHA etc. They always compare them by credit score as if that was all there was.

To compare the costs over 30 years didn't make sense either. Nobody intended to stay in those loans for 30 years, and if you pick almost any other 2 year time period in the last 30 years, the borrower would have saved thousands in costs, and made thousands in extra equity, by going ahead and getting a 2/28. Unfortunately, in real life sometimes choices which seem right at the moment don't work out the way things were planned. It's easy to automatically call the programs evil with 20/20 hindsight.
scottanthony

2990 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2008 :  5:55:25 PM
Cpruitt,

Uh...they're probably right. When I was on here a lot 3 yrs ago, everyone and their mother was selling subprime loans to borrowers who qualified for FHA and even conventional fnma loans because they were 1)not FHA approved and FHA wasn't ~sexy~, 2)didn't fully understand DU/LP quals, and 3)selling subprime was so easy because everyone was approved.

Only when subprime dried up did everyone start doing FHA.
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cpruitt

1580 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2008 :  6:04:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by scottanthony

Cpruitt,

Uh...they're probably right. When I was on here a lot 3 yrs ago, everyone and their mother was selling subprime loans to borrowers who qualified for FHA and even conventional fnma loans because they were 1)not FHA approved and FHA wasn't ~sexy~, 2)didn't fully understand DU/LP quals, and 3)selling subprime was so easy because everyone was approved.

Only when subprime dried up did everyone start doing FHA.



My problem with the author's comment is that he is trying to get yield spread banned because he says that was the reason borrowers were directed toward subprime. The reason was that subprime was more lenient and easier to do - not because of the yield spread. A very different problem that isn't solved by banning yield spread. Laziness, lack of training and ridiculously lenient debt ratios aren't solved by banning yield spread premiums. They are being solved already by the market without any government action whatsoever.
Xpatriot

333 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2008 :  6:30:28 PM
i dont know about you guys, but i never did a subprime loan with out saving the borrower substantially. in my case there was generally a $400-$500 monthly savings after eliminating monthly debt and so forth. in virtually every case i showed the borrower and overall savings in outgoing debt even with the fees factored in and amatorized out.

i think another intersting point is that there is a higher default rate on loans done by bankers than those done by brokers. this fact seems to get over looked.

furthermore, i never put a confomring borrower into a subprime loan. not to say that others did, but in those cases i think its buyer beware. the biggest problem that broker made imo is when telemarketers started calling themselves senior loan officers.

i like how it uses the term "kickbacks" could this article be anymore biased?
assassin17

2858 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2008 :  6:37:27 PM
I don't understand why any of it has to be banned. We have a bunch of whiny borrowers trying to escape one main fact and divert attention from it... THEY didn't keep their PROMISE to pay. Nobody put a gun at their head to borrow money.

More regulation ignores that the lender is the one who takes the big losses. Everyone is complaining that something is being "taken away" from the borrower when the reality is that it was not theirs to begin with and they don't "own" it until they pay for it. It is the borrower who "took" someone else's money!

It's just a fad, like all other fads and "rushes". It had to end sometime, why over-regulate?

An idiot found gold. Another idiot wanted to buy it. More idiots want to buy gold also, so even more idiots rush off to find it. Soon the gold is harder to find, so more idiots decide to sell Fool's Gold to people who can't afford the real thing. Supply is dwindling.

Eventually most of the gold is found. One day the idiots decide they have seen enough gold and want something else. Many other idiots leave the gold-finding business. Demand is dwindling.

The fad is over. Just like mood rings, pet rocks, Cabbage Patch dolls, Furbys and Beanie Babies. Perfectly normal. But because the first idiots were rich jerks we have to regulate it more, as if that will magically make people want to buy Fool's gold again? It doesn't work that way.
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rtrefflich

2352 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2008 :  7:01:43 PM
Sub Prime was there as mentioned to help borrowers who could not get loans otherwise. Here in So Cal, FHA was out of the question because when prices began rising FHA loan limits did not and very few people could take advantage of the programs. Sub Prime was the only place where they could get it done. Sub prime will be back, with tighter LTV guidelines but it will be there once again when the govt. decides that the house should only be worth so much and the market says it is worth more.
RANDY P

1976 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2008 :  7:12:51 PM
exactly - loan limits, and the fact that simply put, everyone believed at the time that housing prices would continue going up - that wasn't my suggestion, but the entire industry, the borrowers, friends of the borrowers, HGTV, David Lerah, NAR on and on.

The pricing on 2/28's and whatnot was legitimately better than was was available with FHA with discounted MI, flex 100, 75/25 whatever you can dream up.

What sense would it be to put a borrower into a 30/fixed at a higher rate / payment if you and the borrower honestly believed that the pricing was going up and in 2 years the equity would be there to go 30/fixed? If you had tried that at that time you would've lost the loan. It would be bad info on the industry's part, but the borrowers all believed it on their own - "buy now while it's affordable!!" was the motto in 2004-2005.

Not our line, but the borrower's line.

rjp

quote:
Originally posted by rtrefflich

Sub Prime was there as mentioned to help borrowers who could not get loans otherwise. Here in So Cal, FHA was out of the question because when prices began rising FHA loan limits did not and very few people could take advantage of the programs. Sub Prime was the only place where they could get it done. Sub prime will be back, with tighter LTV guidelines but it will be there once again when the govt. decides that the house should only be worth so much and the market says it is worth more.

scottanthony

2990 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2008 :  7:56:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cpruitt

My problem with the author's comment is that he is trying to get yield spread banned because he says that was the reason borrowers were directed toward subprime.


Absolutely. I'm sick of the media's demonization of YSP as everyone else is. More often, uneducated borrowers were victims of uneducated LO's. Yet again, I go back to my past experience on BO. Subprime approvals were so easy to get that often, if a LO saw a 640 score or lower, they'd automatically stick them in a subprime category. Usually the LO had little to no knowledge of FHA. In addition, since subprime paid so low, they'd bump the rate for YSP as well as hit the cust with 1 or more pts on the front.

I saw scenarios posted here every single day where LO's were happy to stick them in a 7%+ rate when they'd easily fit FHA with 5.5-6% getting 2+ysp and no need to charge them on the front.

Of course, everyone wanted IO though because they thought their home would just continue to skyrocket in value.....alas...
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cpruitt

1580 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2008 :  9:15:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by RANDY P

exactly - loan limits, and the fact that simply put, everyone believed at the time that housing prices would continue going up - that wasn't my suggestion, but the entire industry, the borrowers, friends of the borrowers, HGTV, David Lerah, NAR on and on.

The pricing on 2/28's and whatnot was legitimately better than was was available with FHA with discounted MI, flex 100, 75/25 whatever you can dream up.

What sense would it be to put a borrower into a 30/fixed at a higher rate / payment if you and the borrower honestly believed that the pricing was going up and in 2 years the equity would be there to go 30/fixed? If you had tried that at that time you would've lost the loan. It would be bad info on the industry's part, but the borrowers all believed it on their own - "buy now while it's affordable!!" was the motto in 2004-2005.

Not our line, but the borrower's line.

rjp


And so again YSP was never the problem, and all these activists were pushing for more access to mortgage money for poor people with bad credit. Now the CRL with 20/20 hindsight - financially backed by someone who has made billions shorting mortgage lender stocks - is using flawed analysis of a real problem to push for abolishing YSP and just hurting borrowers more.
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rtrefflich

2352 Posts

Posted - 04/09/2008 :  9:28:09 PM
It's not that FHA wasn't overlooked or people didn't know about it, it was that in So Cal people didn't qualify for FHA simply because the loan limits were too low. People that I know that did FHA got a better rate, and considerable more quote YSP than we did on our "sub prime" product.

Once again, leave it to the govt. to come in to late to fix a problem that they helped cause.

]Originally posted by scottanthony

quote:
Originally posted by cpruitt

My problem with the author's comment is that he is trying to get yield spread banned because he says that was the reason borrowers were directed toward subprime.


Absolutely. I'm sick of the media's demonization of YSP as everyone else is. More often, uneducated borrowers were victims of uneducated LO's. Yet again, I go back to my past experience on BO. Subprime approvals were so easy to get that often, if a LO saw a 640 score or lower, they'd automatically stick them in a subprime category. Usually the LO had little to no knowledge of FHA. In addition, since subprime paid so low, they'd bump the rate for YSP as well as hit the cust with 1 or more pts on the front.

I saw scenarios posted here every single day where LO's were happy to stick them in a 7%+ rate when they'd easily fit FHA with 5.5-6% getting 2+ysp and no need to charge them on the front.

Of course, everyone wanted IO though because they thought their home would just continue to skyrocket in value.....alas...

[/quote]
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