WI Trigger Leads?

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Aries1

81 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2008 : 12:49:42 PM

I don't call Triggers Often... However we always maintained Triggers as a back up source to keep you from being idle.

The question is... with 2007 Wisconsin Act 76 which goes into effect today... can we legally call triggers in WI without facing fines of $100, and if so does anyone have anyone have a better interpretation of the new Act?

ski2313

581 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2008 : 1:16:51 PM

My understanding is that WI trigger leads are dead for lenders in WI.. but lenders out of state can still purchase and call on trigger leads.

Personally, I hate them and won't be see sad to see them gone.

Aries1

81 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2008 : 1:28:40 PM

I agree they can be a bad... however they are easy to market to and they are cheap... I just need to know what I should tell my LO's.

ski2313

581 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2008 : 1:30:47 PM

I haven't read the bill that was actually passed, but the way the WAMB was pushing it
was to outlaw purchasing and calling on trigger leads by companies in WI.

This law will not affect out of state companies from calling them inside WI though..

If you hear any different, please let me know.

brandie

2676 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2008 : 1:35:04 PM

Matt
I would make sure that if you are using trigger leads make sure that they are scrubbed against the WI do not call list.

One office I worked at used triggers and I could not believe how many people would allow their credit to be pulled or have someone who is not licensed in WI working on their loan.

RGK2394

713 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2008 : 1:41:55 PM

So what the hell would that accomplish- you can't call trigs if you're a local WI company but you can if you're out of state or a big nat'l co with a WI office? What kind of sense does that make? Anyone have a link to the actual law/rule? I hate triggers and would never try them again- to be the 10th guy someone's talked to, get shopped tirelessley, nickled and dimed to death, they're just not worth it. But- I have some prospects I want to snatch up and their office ONLY offers triggers!

gopackers

393 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2008 : 1:45:40 PM

I believe WI has outlawed the use of trigger leads for everyone. If you get caught calling or selling them there are some big fines. About time, this is good for our business instead of everyone low balling each other.

ski2313

581 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2008 : 1:47:26 PM

quote:
Originally posted by gopackers

I believe WI has outlawed the use of trigger leads for everyone. If you get caught calling or selling them there are some big fines. About time, this is good for our business instead of everyone low balling each other.

I agree... but WI law will not apply to a federally chartered lender from California from purchasing and calling trigger leads in WI. That's the way I understood the original proposal anyways.

Aries1

81 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2008 : 2:26:46 PM

To me the way I read this section...
(2)(b)... the purpose for which the trigger lead is obtained and that the person will not use the trigger lead to solicit any consumer identified in the trigger lead.

"(3)(a) If any trigger lead is a prescreened consumer report, a person that obtains a trigger lead and uses the trigger lead to solicit any consumer identified in the trigger lead may not utilize unfair or deceptive practices in soliciting the consumer."

It goes on to outline the known deceptive practices but it basically states that if they are to be used that way here is the proper technique...

However section 3 contradicts section 2 to me... and it is awfully convoluted.

Aries1

81 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2008 : 3:20:08 PM

Bump... anyone?

MisterVA

4508 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2008 : 3:42:57 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Aries1

I agree they can be a bad... however they are easy to market to and they are cheap... I just need to know what I should tell my LO's.

Tell 'em to get off their arses and get their own dam leads.

Aries1

81 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2008 : 4:00:00 PM

quote:
Originally posted by MisterVA

quote:
Originally posted by Aries1

I agree they can be a bad... however they are easy to market to and they are cheap... I just need to know what I should tell my LO's.

Tell 'em to get off their arses and get their own dam leads.

LOL... Couldn't agree more... however doing that is still skirting the issue isn't it.

assassin17

2599 Posts

Posted - 03/27/2008 : 5:08:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ski2313

I haven't read the bill that was actually passed, but the way the WAMB was pushing it was to outlaw purchasing and calling on trigger leads by companies in WI.

This law will not affect out of state companies from calling them inside WI though.. If you hear any different, please let me know.

Sorry, but there is no such loophole. This law applies to ANYONE attempting to be a "Lender" in this State, via the following;

(d) “Lender” means any of the following:

1. A financial institution, as defined in s. 214.01 (1)(jn).

Explanation - All licensed Bankers, via;
214.01 Definitions. (1) In this chapter:
(jn) “Financial institution” means a bank, a savings bank, a savings and loan association, a trust company, or a credit union, whether chartered under the laws of this state, another state or territory or under the laws of the United States.

2. A finance company licensed under ss. 138.09 or 218.0101 to 218.0163.

Explanation - ANY consumer lender who charges computed Interest (138.09 MONEY AND RATES OF INTEREST)

- and -

Lenders or third-Party Affiliates who charge by Installments, mainly to prevent the loophole of using a Trigger Lead for a mortgage company thru the guise of having an "affiliate" do it for you or using a land contract, via;
"CHAPTER 218 - FINANCE COMPANIES, AUTO DEALERS, ADJUSTMENT COMPANIES AND COLLECTION AGENCIES
(34) (a) “Sales finance company” means any person, firm or corporation engaging in the business, in whole or in part, of acquiring by purchase or by loan on the security thereof, or otherwise, retail installment contracts or consumer leases from retail sellers or lessors in this state.

3. A mortgage banker, loan originator, or mortgage broker registered under s. 224.72.

Explanation - We now include Brokers and LOs (ALL of whom must be licensed unless they work for a Banker, but Bankers were previously included), via;
CHAPTER 224 - MISCELLANEOUS BANKING AND FINANCIAL INSTITUTIONS PROVISIONS
224.72 Registration of mortgage bankers, loan originators and mortgage brokers. (1) DEFINITIONS. In this section:
(1m) REGISTRATION REQUIRED. A person may not act as a mortgage banker, loan originator or mortgage broker, use the title “mortgage banker”, “loan originator” or “mortgage broker”, or
advertise or otherwise portray himself or herself as a mortgage banker, loan originator or mortgage broker, unless the person has been issued a certificate of registration from the division.

4. Any other person, not identified in subds. 1. to 3., the primary business of which is to make loans or engage in lending activities in this state.

Explanation - Everyone else the above does not cover, who attempts to make a loan. No loopholes.

Note the key use of the word "OR". Any type of the above lenders, any person licensed or not licensed, from anywhere... Is liable. It does not say FROM this state, it says lending activites IN this state. There is no Federal-Charter loophole.

The penalties are also not a mere $100, and damage is automatically PRESUMED;

"(4) (a) Any person who violates sub. (2) or (3) may be required to forfeit not less than $100 nor more than $1,000 for each violation.
(b) The department shall investigate violations of this section. The department or the department of justice, after consulting with the department, or any district attorney, upon informing the department, may on behalf of the state:
1. Bring an action for temporary or permanent injunctive or other relief for any violation of this section. In such an action for injunctive relief, irreparable harm is presumed. The court may, upon entry of final judgment, award restitution when appropriate to any person suffering loss because of a violation of this section if proof of such loss is submitted to the satisfaction of the court.
2. Bring an action in any court of competent jurisdiction for the penalties authorized under par. (a).
(c) In addition to any other remedies, any person aggrieved by a violation of sub. (2) or (3) may bring a civil action for damages. In such an action, any person who violates sub. (2) or (3) shall be liable for twice the amount of actual damages caused by the violation or $500, whichever is greater, and, notwithstanding s.814.04 (1), the costs of the action, including reasonable attorney fees. In such an action, the court may also award any equitable relief that the court determines is appropriate."

The definition of Aggrieved is not financial damage, either. It's merely;

1) Feeling distress or affliction.
2) Treated wrongly; offended.
3) Law Treated unjustly, as by denial of or infringement upon one's legal rights.

I can't wait for the first challengers to this. Should be fun.

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