DONT WANT TO PAY JUDGEMENT

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velecico

3255 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 07:11:32 AM

I have a deal thats about to blow up due to a judgemnet coming up on the seller for $30,000 , they are selling the home for just about what they paid so paying the judgement from the proceeds is not even an option , can the seller do a quitclaim deed to avoid paying it ?

terry_g

396 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 07:22:20 AM

Anybody can quitclaim anything, but you won't get title insurance on the sale. That judgement lien is on the property.

This would be a good time to negotiate with the judgement lienholder, and let them know that if they don't negotiate for a settled amount, thyey will probably get nothing and will be yet another victim of the housing crisis. The first mortgage holder will wipe them out if it goes back to the back. Offer them 10 cents on the dollar.

quote:
Originally posted by velecico

I have a deal thats about to blow up due to a judgemnet coming up on the seller for $30,000 , they are selling the home for just about what they paid so paying the judgement from the proceeds is not even an option , can the seller do a quitclaim deed to avoid paying it ?

velecico

3255 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 07:48:15 AM

Thanks for the info , but I dont understand how a judgement can be on the property , the seller is a developer she has multiple properties , if she quitclaims it , or even sells it , for a nominal cost , records the deed to an LLC or even her husband and they do another agreement of sale , how would the judgement come up ? I thought the search is done on the seller and buyers SS #

Tsnyder

7921 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 07:52:46 AM

quote:
Originally posted by velecico

Thanks for the info , but I dont understand how a judgement can be on the property , the seller is a developer she has multiple properties , if she quitclaims it , or even sells it say to an LLC or even her husband and they do another agreement of sale , how would the judgement come up ? I thought the search is done on the seller and buyers SS #

I guess it's possible that things work differently in
other states but in my state all judgements against people
become liens against all real property owned by them.

Tsnyder

conceptjim

24 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 07:54:11 AM

Depending on which state you are in, the judgement may not need to be paid if there is no money left after paying the mortgages. In Wisconsin this amount is $40,000. We have had to invoke this rule in some short sales when judgements are involved. Have the client check with a real estate attorney. A quit claim deed will do no good as the judgement happened before the quit claim.

terry_g

396 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 08:02:54 AM

The search is done on the chain of title in addition to the most recent seller. As a practical matter an insuring title co, at the very least would check the chain back to the date of the last title policy being issued. If they didn't and the judgement credit discovered it later, they would have a claim against the title company, and the title company would go after the seller for unjust enrichment. Sure, it's always possible to cloud the issue so a title company doesn't find it, but that would be illegal.

quote:
Originally posted by velecico

Thanks for the info , but I dont understand how a judgement can be on the property , the seller is a developer she has multiple properties , if she quitclaims it , or even sells it , for a nominal cost , records the deed to an LLC or even her husband and they do another agreement of sale , how would the judgement come up ? I thought the search is done on the seller and buyers SS #

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 09:49:26 AM

quote:
Originally posted by terry_g

The search is done on the chain of title in addition to the most recent seller. As a practical matter an insuring title co, at the very least would check the chain back to the date of the last title policy being issued. If they didn't and the judgement credit discovered it later, they would have a claim against the title company, and the title company would go after the seller for unjust enrichment. Sure, it's always possible to cloud the issue so a title company doesn't find it, but that would be illegal.

quote:
Originally posted by velecico

Thanks for the info , but I dont understand how a judgement can be on the property , the seller is a developer she has multiple properties , if she quitclaims it , or even sells it , for a nominal cost , records the deed to an LLC or even her husband and they do another agreement of sale , how would the judgement come up ? I thought the search is done on the seller and buyers SS #

Judgments and liens against individuals attach to all their personal assets. As a professional investor, she needed to have taken title in a LLC to begin with to be judgment proof. Transferring title AFTER a lien has already attached is too little too late. Not a chance in hell title search won't find it. They are not in the business of issuing insurance for $1,000 to pay out $30,000. Sure fluke mistakes have happened, but likelihood is slim to none that it won't be found.

jmilano15

101 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 12:03:15 PM

The lien search is done on the name and the property address. The social is used to verify the name that comes up as the same person.

Your saying the lien is NOT yet on the property and only on the name of the seller. Correct? If the lien already attached to the property, that seller needs to take care of it before transfering title.

If the title co can confirm that the lien is/will not be attached to the property it shouldn't be an issue. Since the person has mult. properties maybe they can use another property as collateral for the lien. I agree with Terry on trying to negotiate with the lien holder.

quote:
Originally posted by velecico

I have a deal thats about to blow up due to a judgemnet coming up on the seller for $30,000 , they are selling the home for just about what they paid so paying the judgement from the proceeds is not even an option , can the seller do a quitclaim deed to avoid paying it ?

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 1:19:29 PM

quote:
Originally posted by jmilano15

The lien search is done on the name and the property address. The social is used to verify the name that comes up as the same person.

Your saying the lien is NOT yet on the property and only on the name of the seller. Correct? If the lien already attached to the property, that seller needs to take care of it before transfering title.

If the title co can confirm that the lien is/will not be attached to the property it shouldn't be an issue. Since the person has mult. properties maybe they can use another property as collateral for the lien. I agree with Terry on trying to negotiate with the lien holder.

quote:
Originally posted by velecico

I have a deal thats about to blow up due to a judgemnet coming up on the seller for $30,000 , they are selling the home for just about what they paid so paying the judgement from the proceeds is not even an option , can the seller do a quitclaim deed to avoid paying it ?

Once a judgment is rendered by a court and an abstract is recorded with the recorder's office, all of her properties are affected and the homeowner cannot obtain title insurance until the creditor issues a satisfaction of judgment to be recorded with the county. The whole point of a judgment being secured against a debtor's real estate is to force a satisfaction by preventing a title transfer. In fact, as soon as a suit has been filed, the plaintiff may file a Lis Pendens against all of the defendant's properties to prevent a transfer until a judgment is rendered. The only way to secure the debt with other properties is for the creditor to record a satisfaction of judgment. They wouldn't possibly agree to that unless she refinanced the other properties and satisfied the debt. Since she was so naive to hold title of her RE portfolio in her personal name, she cannot buy, sell or finance any of her real estate without negotiating a satisfaction of judgement or filing BK to discharge the debt.

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 1:28:55 PM

From a Small Claims Court website under IF I WIN, HOW DO I GET MY MONEY?

A. Call or contact the party against who the judgment is entered and discuss voluntary payment. If the suitable arrangement for payment is not agreed on, then consider the following steps.

B. Wait and do nothing. All judgments attach as a lien against any real estate located in the county where the judgment is obtained, including a home, owned by the person owing the judgment. The lien is good for ten (10) years and if the property is sold within that time, normally the lien must be satisfied which means you will be paid your money.

BrokerCA

2353 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 1:54:07 PM

Tell her to have some integrity and pay the judgement. lol. She owns multiple properties, she is not destitute.

velecico

3255 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 3:38:45 PM

I got the sellers number from the listing realtor and they sent me the paperwork , its not an actual judgement , its a complaint , they have 35 days to answer or it could turn into a judgement , its against her personally and 2 of her LLCs , she is telling me that the home she is selling ( her primary ) was put into a shelf corporation her husnband owns , the agreements of sale do not have the corp as the seller , now what do? I do , if I tell her the agreements were not properly excecuted it will sour my relationship with both realtors

Schmillenium

332 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 3:54:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by velecico

I got the sellers number from the listing realtor and they sent me the paperwork , its not an actual judgement , its a complaint , they have 35 days to answer or it could turn into a judgement , its against her personally and 2 of her LLCs , she is telling me that the home she is selling ( her primary ) was put into a shelf corporation her husnband owns , the agreements of sale do not have the corp as the seller , now what do? I do , if I tell her the agreements were not properly excecuted it will sour my relationship with both realtors

Just tell her you need a clear title and title insurance. I'm sure that's part of the purchase agreement you entered. She won't be able to provide that until she pays off the judgement. The title company will tell her that and the relitters involved should know that too. Don't worry about souring your relationship with someone who is trying to force an uninsurable property on you.

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 3:58:45 PM

quote:
Originally posted by velecico

I got the sellers number from the listing realtor and they sent me the paperwork , its not an actual judgement , its a complaint , they have 35 days to answer or it could turn into a judgement , its against her personally and 2 of her LLCs , she is telling me that the home she is selling ( her primary ) was put into a shelf corporation her husnband owns , the agreements of sale do not have the corp as the seller , now what do? I do , if I tell her the agreements were not properly excecuted it will sour my relationship with both realtors

The lender will require a revised purchase contract to approve financing and the title company will require a corrected purchase contract to issue title policy. If she is not on title, pending law suit cannot affect the property (unless she transfered title after the suit and a Lis Pendens had already been filed). However, she is not eligible to sell something she doesn't legally own. The officer of the corporation holding title will need to execute all seller docs for the closing.

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 4:14:06 PM

quote:
Originally posted by slants

quote:
Originally posted by velecico

I got the sellers number from the listing realtor and they sent me the paperwork , its not an actual judgement , its a complaint , they have 35 days to answer or it could turn into a judgement , its against her personally and 2 of her LLCs , she is telling me that the home she is selling ( her primary ) was put into a shelf corporation her husnband owns , the agreements of sale do not have the corp as the seller , now what do? I do , if I tell her the agreements were not properly excecuted it will sour my relationship with both realtors
The lender will require a revised purchase contract to approve financing and the title company will require a corrected purchase contract to issue title policy. If she is not on title, pending law suit cannot affect the property (unless she transfered title after the suit and a Lis Pendence was alredy filed). However, she is not eligible to sell something she doesn't legally own. The officer of the corporation holding title will need to execute all seller docs for the closing.

It's hard to imagine that neither realtor pulled a property profile prior to entering into a contract to sell to determine that the person(s) trying to sell the house actually had legal ownership interest. Duh! What entity does the prelim show as the owner of record?

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 5:11:51 PM

quote:
Originally posted by slants

quote:
Originally posted by velecico

I got the sellers number from the listing realtor and they sent me the paperwork , its not an actual judgement , its a complaint , they have 35 days to answer or it could turn into a judgement , its against her personally and 2 of her LLCs , she is telling me that the home she is selling ( her primary ) was put into a shelf corporation her husnband owns , the agreements of sale do not have the corp as the seller , now what do? I do , if I tell her the agreements were not properly excecuted it will sour my relationship with both realtors
The lender will require a revised purchase contract to approve financing and the title company will require a corrected purchase contract to issue title policy. If she is not on title, pending law suit cannot affect the property (unless she transfered title after the suit and a Lis Pendens had already been filed). However, she is not eligible to sell something she doesn't legally own. The officer of the corporation holding title will need to execute all seller docs for the closing.

If property was recently transferred into the LLC, I would have title do a date down and verify if a Lis Pendence had been filed prior to being placed into the corp. If it was in corp vesting prior to law suit, it's fine. Either way, if the sellers no longer own the property, they cannot sell it and must cancel the escrow and rewrite new purchase contract under rightful owner (corporation) under a new escrow.

johnnyboy38109

2580 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 6:01:27 PM

quote:
Originally posted by velecico

I got the sellers number from the listing realtor and they sent me the paperwork , its not an actual judgement , its a complaint , they have 35 days to answer or it could turn into a judgement , its against her personally and 2 of her LLCs , she is telling me that the home she is selling ( her primary ) was put into a shelf corporation her husnband owns , the agreements of sale do not have the corp as the seller , now what do? I do , if I tell her the agreements were not properly excecuted it will sour my relationship with both realtors

You need to consult an attorney, you're getting a lot of specious advice from folks not qualified to dipense it. In my state if the suit is pending, it'll be listed as such on a title report and you've got a clouded title till its disposed and you wont be able to get title insurance.

Do yourself a favor......dont tell anyone to go around quitclaiming deeds and dont get cutesy with advice on legal issues......talk to an attorney, not anyone here, including me.

johnnyboy38109

2580 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 6:03:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by slants

quote:
Originally posted by slants

quote:
Originally posted by velecico

I got the sellers number from the listing realtor and they sent me the paperwork , its not an actual judgement , its a complaint , they have 35 days to answer or it could turn into a judgement , its against her personally and 2 of her LLCs , she is telling me that the home she is selling ( her primary ) was put into a shelf corporation her husnband owns , the agreements of sale do not have the corp as the seller , now what do? I do , if I tell her the agreements were not properly excecuted it will sour my relationship with both realtors
The lender will require a revised purchase contract to approve financing and the title company will require a corrected purchase contract to issue title policy. If she is not on title, pending law suit cannot affect the property (unless she transfered title after the suit and a Lis Pendence had already been filed). However, she is not eligible to sell something she doesn't legally own. The officer of the corporation holding title will need to execute all seller docs for the closing.
If property was recently transferred into the LLC, I would have title do a date down and verify if a Lis Pendence had been filed prior to being placed into the corp. If it was in corp vesting prior to law suit, it's fine. Either way, if the sellers no longer own the property, they cannot sell it and must cancel the escrow and rewrite new purchase contract under rightful owner (corporation) under a new escrow.

This is factually incorrect and dangerous for the poster to follow.

These issues are state-specific and the poster really needs to consult an attorney, but what you say about vesting prior is factually incorrect.

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 6:50:28 PM

quote:
Originally posted by johnnyboy38109

This is factually incorrect and dangerous for the poster to follow.

These issues are state-specific and the poster really needs to consult an attorney, but what you say about vesting prior is factually incorrect.

What is factually incorrect? Your statement does not make any sense whatsoever. What does "vesting prior" even mean? And what is the "danger" here for "following" what?

Either the house was in her name when the suit was filed and the plaintiff had already flied a Lis Pendens before she transferred title into an LLC so that she cannot sell prior to the disposition of the suit, or the property was already vested in a Limited Liability Corporation unrelated to her and not named in the suit when the suit was filed, then it cannot be attached by the pending action. Either way, the seller more than likely has an attorney advising her regarding her pending litigation and the LO's role as the buyer's representative is strictly to arrange financing on the buyer's behalf, not provide unlicensed legal advice to the seller.

The LO's only role is to establish whether the property has clear title without a recorded Lis Pendens from the pending suit so that the title company will issue a title policy to facilitate the buyer's financing. No more and no less.

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 7:12:41 PM

quote:
Originally posted by johnnyboy38109

quote:
Originally posted by velecico

I got the sellers number from the listing realtor and they sent me the paperwork , its not an actual judgement , its a complaint , they have 35 days to answer or it could turn into a judgement , its against her personally and 2 of her LLCs , she is telling me that the home she is selling ( her primary ) was put into a shelf corporation her husnband owns , the agreements of sale do not have the corp as the seller , now what do? I do , if I tell her the agreements were not properly excecuted it will sour my relationship with both realtors

You need to consult an attorney, you're getting a lot of specious advice from folks not qualified to dipense it. In my state if the suit is pending, it'll be listed as such on a title report and you've got a clouded title till its disposed and you wont be able to get title insurance.

Do yourself a favor......dont tell anyone to go around quitclaiming deeds and dont get cutesy with advice on legal issues......talk to an attorney, not anyone here, including me.

It'll be listed as pending if a Lis Pendens was filed against the subject property as a property the defendant owns. A plaintiff cannot arbitrarily file pending actions against arbitrary properties not owned by persons or entities named in the complaint. If that were the case. I can file a Lis Pendens against your home at will just because I want to?

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 7:37:20 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Erv

SLANTS,

Your comments that she should have " taken title in a LLC to begin with to be judgment proof" is NOT accurate and very missleading. How would you support that statement?

Go pay an attorney or even easier, just google it. I don't have time to constantly educate you. Here is one place where you can pay to learn it:

http://www.reiclub.com/products/307

How to use LLCs & Family Limited Partnerships to "judgment-proof" your assets from creditors. Bill shows you how to take advantage of little-known state laws that allow you to use LLCs and partnerships to shield your assets from creditors.

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 7:40:11 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Erv

Not only do judgments attach as a lien against any real estate located in the county where the judgment is obtained", judgments attach all properties within that state.

In some states judgement leins could survive more or less than 10 years.

If you intend to give advise, you should be prepared to give accurate infrmation.

I had already posted that above which was copied and pasted from a state court site and not my personal advice. In any case, that's not even the topic being discussed here - there is not a judgment. If you want to expound on the width and breath of your knowledge on judgments, feel free to start a new thread.

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 7:43:50 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Erv
John,

Dont be so shocked by the inaccurate and often missleading statemnts made by SLANTS.

SLANTS is a very narrow minded angry person who has made a habit of missrepresenting in most posts>

Funny you can make that statement after every remark you have made in every thread has been discredited.

2217 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 8:22:05 PM

Nick,

It sounds to me like this is a mechanics lien, given that your seller is a RE investor. Mechanics liens, and the procedure for obtaining one, are treated differently from other liens in NJ, much as they are in NY, where I was partner in a title company years ago.

Also, I did a number of loans for buyers of the NJ Affordable Homes Bankruptcy Auction last year at the Meadowlands; and even with the BK of the seller the title was a nightmare.

First, you should ALWAYS use a title company that has Title Counsel at the ready for sticky situations such as this. Don't use some guy that is a title agent, that does title part time.

Second, use a FLEXIBLE title company like Old Republic, they'll insure anything, they're wh*res.

Insofar as quit claiming the deed to a partnership or LLC; that's a slippery slope. You might be able to pull it off, but I doubt it. When obtaining title, the title agent will ask if you "know of any pending litigation against seller or property" and to answer forthrightly...

And, as for the Realtors, calmly explain that in your interview with the seller, you discovered there may be a "vesting" issue, and the contract may have to be re-written to reflect correct vesting of seller from individual to LLC.,

For Limited Liability Companies (LLC) provide:
a. Articles of Organization;
b. Operating Agreement; and
c. Resolution authorizing the LLC and party signing Purchase Agreement to act on behalf of LLC in this transaction.

Hopefully, by using this stalling tactic, you will build some street cred with the Realtor, and try to get the lien situation worked out with the seller.

Of course, if you can't get it worked out with seller, you're going to have to call in a lawyer.

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 8:30:32 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ML

Nick,

It sounds to me like this is a mechanics lien, given that your seller is a RE investor. Mechanics liens, and the procedure for obtaining one, are treated differently from other liens in NJ, much as they are in NY, where I was partner in a title company years ago.

Also, I did a number of loans for buyers of the NJ Affordable Homes Bankruptcy Auction last year at the Meadowlands; and even with the BK of the seller the title was a nightmare.

First, you should ALWAYS use a title company that has Title Counsel at the ready for sticky situations such as this. Don't use some guy that is a title agent, that does title part time.

Second, use a FLEXIBLE title company like Old Republic, they'll insure anything, they're wh*res.

Insofar as quit claiming the deed to a partnership or LLC; that's a slippery slope. You might be able to pull it off, but I doubt it. When obtaining title, the title agent will ask if you "know of any pending litigation against seller or property" and to answer forthrightly...

And, as for the Realtors, calmly explain that in your interview with the seller, you discovered there may be a "vesting" issue, and the contract may have to be re-written to reflect correct vesting of seller from individual to LLC.,

For Limited Liability Companies (LLC) provide:
a. Articles of Organization;
b. Operating Agreement; and
c. Resolution authorizing the LLC and party signing Purchase Agreement to act on behalf of
LLC in this transaction.

Hopefully, by using this stalling tactic, you will build some street cred with the Realtor, and try to get the lien situation worked out with the seller.

Of course, if you can't get it worked out with seller, you're going to have to call in a lawyer.

So far, there is no indication of a lien that affects the subject property which is held in a corporation other than those listed on a pending action. Unless it is established that this property is exposed to the pending suit because it was previously held by the defendant at the time the complaint was filed, there may be nothing that needs to be done but close the deal. A simple property profile and chain of title can confirm the dates and the vesting.

2217 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 9:14:01 PM

In NJ (assuming the deal is, as is the Broker, from NJ) the plaintiff files an NBD (notice of Balance Due, or something like that) and this informs the defendant that they are about to be sued for a deficiency in payment on a construction contract. If the suit is successful, then the date of reference goes back to the filing of the NBD. This eliminates any weasley transfers of ownership while litigation is pending.

Since the OP stated:

"a judgemnet(sic) coming up on the seller for $30,000"

I'm assuming no lien has been filed, but they have been "notified." This notice is also filed in the County Courthouse with the County Clerk.
I'm also assuming that due to the amount in question the "judgment" is not for an overdue magazine subscription.

He then goes on to say:

"the seller is a developer she has multiple properties ,
if she quitclaims it , or even sells it , for a nominal cost ,
records the deed to an LLC or even her husband and they do
another agreement of sale , how would the judgement come up ?"

Further evidence that this is some type of "mechanics lien" and any type of paper shuffle is not going to mask the true intentions of the grantor, which is to circumvent pending litigation. The Title Company would see right thru this canard, for what it really is, and not issue marketable title, therefore dead deal!

Maybe now is the time to call a lawyer, if you want to save this deal!

johnnyboy38109

2580 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 9:21:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by slants

quote:
Originally posted by johnnyboy38109

This is factually incorrect and dangerous for the poster to follow.

These issues are state-specific and the poster really needs to consult an attorney, but what you say about vesting prior is factually incorrect.
What is factually incorrect? Your statement does not make any sense whatsoever. What does "vesting prior" even mean? And what is the "danger" here for "following" what?

Either the house was in her name when the suit was filed and the plaintiff had already flied a Lis Pendens before she transferred title into an LLC so that she cannot sell prior to the disposition of the suit, or the property was already vested in a Limited Liability Corporation unrelated to her and not named in the suit when the suit was filed, then it cannot be attached by the pending action. Either way, the seller more than likely has an attorney advising her regarding her pending litigation and the LO's role as the buyer's representative is strictly to arrange financing on the buyer's behalf, not provide unlicensed legal advice to the seller.

The LO's only role is to establish whether the property has clear title without a recorded Lis Pendens from the pending suit so that the title company will issue a title policy to facilitate the buyer's financing. No more and no less.

Not exactly true, sir, in its entirety. In every venue I've been in, title ins. is issued pending an affirmative answer by the borrower as to there being no pending suits, recorded or otherwise. An erroneous answer voids the policy.

This is tricky, folks..........neither myself or anyone else here should dispense legal advice.....we arent qualified.

the poster should exercise caution and get a lawyers advice.

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 9:22:00 PM

He had since spoken directly with the seller and confirmed that title is currently held in a corporation. What is not clear is whether it was already held in the corp or they quit claimed after the complaint was filed. That is what needs to be confirmed.

"I got the sellers number from the listing realtor and they sent me the paperwork , its not an actual judgement , its a complaint , they have 35 days to answer or it could turn into a judgement , its against her personally and 2 of her LLCs , she is telling me that the home she is selling ( her primary ) was put into a shelf corporation her husnband owns , the agreements of sale do not have the corp as the seller , now what do? I do , if I tell her the agreements were not properly excecuted it will sour my relationship with both realtors."

johnnyboy38109

2580 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 9:23:30 PM

quote:
Originally posted by ML

Nick,

It sounds to me like this is a mechanics lien, given that your seller is a RE investor. Mechanics liens, and the procedure for obtaining one, are treated differently from other liens in NJ, much as they are in NY, where I was partner in a title company years ago.

Also, I did a number of loans for buyers of the NJ Affordable Homes Bankruptcy Auction last year at the Meadowlands; and even with the BK of the seller the title was a nightmare.

First, you should ALWAYS use a title company that has Title Counsel at the ready for sticky situations such as this. Don't use some guy that is a title agent, that does title part time.

Second, use a FLEXIBLE title company like Old Republic, they'll insure anything, they're wh*res.

Insofar as quit claiming the deed to a partnership or LLC; that's a slippery slope. You might be able to pull it off, but I doubt it. When obtaining title, the title agent will ask if you "know of any pending litigation against seller or property" and to answer forthrightly...

And, as for the Realtors, calmly explain that in your interview with the seller, you discovered there may be a "vesting" issue, and the contract may have to be re-written to reflect correct vesting of seller from individual to LLC.,

For Limited Liability Companies (LLC) provide:
a. Articles of Organization;
b. Operating Agreement; and
c. Resolution authorizing the LLC and party signing Purchase Agreement to act on behalf of LLC in this transaction.

Hopefully, by using this stalling tactic, you will build some street cred with the Realtor, and try to get the lien situation worked out with the seller.

Of course, if you can't get it worked out with seller, you're going to have to call in a lawyer.

'Insofar as quit claiming the deed to a partnership or LLC; that's a slippery slope. You might be able to pull it off, but I doubt it. When obtaining title, the title agent will ask if you "know of any pending litigation against seller or property" and to answer forthrightly...'

this is entirely on point and correct.

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/22/2008 : 9:27:36 PM

quote:
Originally posted by johnnyboy38109

quote:
Originally posted by slants

quote:
Originally posted by johnnyboy38109

This is factually incorrect and dangerous for the poster to follow.

These issues are state-specific and the poster really needs to consult an attorney, but what you say about vesting prior is factually incorrect.
What is factually incorrect? Your statement does not make any sense whatsoever. What does "vesting prior" even mean? And what is the "danger" here for "following" what?

Either the house was in her name when the suit was filed and the plaintiff had already flied a Lis Pendens before she transferred title into an LLC so that she cannot sell prior to the disposition of the suit, or the property was already vested in a Limited Liability Corporation unrelated to her and not named in the suit when the suit was filed, then it cannot be attached by the pending action. Either way, the seller more than likely has an attorney advising her regarding her pending litigation and the LO's role as the buyer's representative is strictly to arrange financing on the buyer's behalf, not provide unlicensed legal advice to the seller.

The LO's only role is to establish whether the property has clear title without a recorded Lis Pendens from the pending suit so that the title company will issue a title policy to facilitate the buyer's financing. No more and no less.

Not exactly true, sir, in its entirety. In every venue I've been in, title ins. is issued pending an affirmative answer by the borrower as to there being no pending suits, recorded or otherwise. An erroneous answer voids the policy.

This is tricky, folks..........neither myself or anyone else here should dispense legal advice.....we arent qualified.

the poster should exercise caution and get a lawyers advice.

I agree 100% that no one should dispense legal advice without a license which this is not. The SELLER being the LLC not named in the suit can affirmatively state there are no pending actions against it or it's officer, the husband who is not named in the suit. In any case, the title company will sort it out, this is just an internet forum where we speak in hypotheticals since we do not have any access to the actual data or facts.

velecico

3255 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2008 : 10:06:29 AM

The notice is from an advertiser , seems they had a dispute over what was owed , she is going to fight it , maybe just leave the 30K in escrow ?

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/23/2008 : 10:25:00 AM

quote:
Originally posted by velecico

The notice is from the Yellow Pages , for advertising

Wow, $30,000 worth of yellow pages advertising? What is she selling? I didn't think it was a mechanics lien as that can only attach to the legal description of the specific property with the defaulted payment, not her along with 2 differnt LLC's.

Regardless of the pending lawsuit against her, what needs to be determined is whether it affects title to the subject property. First thing is for title to date down and verify whether the property was in her husbsnd's llc prior to the suit, if so, you do not have cloud on title to THIS house. If she was personally on title when suit was filed, need to determine if a lis pendens was recorded on the property which would tie the property up until suit is settled.

BTW, while discussions regarding title insurance procedures involve RE law, they are customary aspects of conducting the mortgage business and are not dangerous legal advice nor does it take a bar membership to understand, practice or dispense title procedures - I doubt 99.9% of title officers are members of the bar. Information on title insurance that doesn't come form a licensed attorney could actually be accurate and is not automatically "specious". Not like he's about to go tell the Seller that some anonymous person on the interenet said the property doesn't have liens, or the seller will cease her defense because her buyer's LO got information online from people he doesn't know who said she is okay. It's an internet forum about abstract concepts and prevailing industry practices and procedures, not a legal defense team or a court room.

velecico

3255 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2008 : 06:59:13 AM

Thank you all for the valuable info

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2008 : 10:21:02 AM

quote:
Originally posted by velecico

The notice is from an advertiser , seems they had a dispute over what was owed , she is going to fight it , maybe just leave the 30K in escrow ?

If the suit affects title, probably won't be able to get title insurance and close until after the lawsuit has been disposed since it's not likely the plaintiff will dismiss the suit to take the lien off title until after the case has been tried or settled.

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2008 : 10:31:52 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Erv

quote:
Originally posted by slants

quote:
Originally posted by Erv

SLANTS,

Your comments that she should have " taken title in a LLC to begin with to be judgment proof" is NOT accurate and very missleading. How would you support that statement?
Go pay an attorney or even easier, just google it. I don't have time to constantly educate you. Here is one place where you can pay to learn it:

http://www.reiclub.com/products/307

How to use LLCs & Family Limited Partnerships to "judgment-proof" your assets from creditors. Bill shows you how to take advantage of little-known state laws that allow you to use LLCs and partnerships to shield your assets from creditors.

HA HA HA You must be kidding that you think your educating readers here with your missrepresantations and less than accurate stements and comments.

Actually, I said I have constantly educated you here and in numerous threads where you have asked for my education through you nasty attacks. I can post the links if you want further embarrassment. As far as educating other readers, some have indicated that they have taken away information of value from my posts, and many of them voted for me in the "most informative poster" poll.

I suggest you stop your childish antics now before you walk way with egg on your face from yet another thread. You have shown yourself to be an unsuccessful spammer and then an unsuccessful flammer on BO and now a pathetic childish temper tantrum thrower with nothing of substance to contribute to anyone.

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2008 : 3:24:40 PM

quote:
Originally posted by velecico

The notice is from an advertiser , seems they had a dispute over what was owed , she is going to fight it , maybe just leave the 30K in escrow ?

I happened to get a call from my title rep today and picked his brains about this scenario. He ran it by their head underwriter at Stewart Title and here are their thoughts on the matter: he agrees with me that if the property was always held in the husband's LLC going back some time or from inception, then it would not cause a concern at all in their risk assessment; however, if it has the appearance that title was transferred into the LLC in anticipation of possible legal action as a way to try to defraud a creditor, then it would cause the title company to seriously evaluate the issuance of title insurance - even if a lis pendens wasn't filed prior to the transfer (particularly because the transfer was to a company under her husband's control and not an independent 3rd party).

The title rep says he has successfully closed deals like this in the past when the homeowner obtained a bond to cover the pending action. In light of a $30,000 complaint, he feels that a bond in the amount of $50,000 should make their underwriter comfortable in insuring the closing. Assuming the homeowner is credit worthy with substantial assets, she may be able to get a bond for the pending suit and obtain title insurance despite the suit.

Disclaimer: Title rep is not a licensed attorney but is a 30 years RE veteran as a RE broker/Mortgage Broker/Title Rep and is amply qualified to dispense the above information.

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2008 : 7:26:55 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Erv

Oh Yeah... embarrasse me and post those links. Show us that your statements are not your fabrications or distortaions of the truth.

Let's see, they are too numerous, so I will refresh your memory with a few classic examples of the BO favorites. BTW Erv, these are NOT good natured ribbing as you like to pretend and not meant to be endorsements of your character and ability to be posted in your resume, but I doubt you actually needed a resume to work at Men's Warehouse 9 - 5 as you do.

There are so many more. Some can be found here:

http://www.brokeroutpost.com/loans/brokers/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=200468&whichpage=1

Posted - 02/07/2008 : 06:04 AM
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HEY ERV...ENOUGH ALREADY WITH ALL YOUR ****ING SPAM! EVERY TIME YOU GET ON A THREAD ALL YOU DO IS SPAM IT WITH ADVERTISING FOR YOUR COMPANY. AS IF THAT'S NOT ENOUGH, YOU ARE ALSO MISLEADING IN YOUR STATEMENTS AND SOME ARE OUTRIGHT BULL**** ABOUT YOUR SERVICE. STOP IT ALREADY...YOU'RE AN *******!

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”The Rudeness that you perceive is in direct proportion to the irritation you create!"

Posted - 02/08/2008 : 4:29 PM
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HEY ERV....

DO I NEED TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU IN MORONESE, SO THAT YOU CAN UNDERSTAND? YOU JUST RESPONDED TO SOMEONE ELSE'S REPLY, WITH MORE SPAM YOU IDIOT! THE BEAUTY OF THIS BOARD BY THE WAY, IS NOT THE FACT THAT I DO NOT HAVE TO READ YOUR SPAM...IT IS THE ANNOUNCEMENT SECTION. IT WAS CREATED SO THAT ME, AND EVERYONE ELSE, DOES NOT HAVE TO READ YOUR SPAM ON EVERY ****ING THREAD. WHY DON'T YOU INTERPRET THAT, SO WE CAN SEE MORE OF YOUR BULL**** SPAM! FEEL FREE TO INTERPRET THAT ONE AS WELL.

YOUR ASK ME FOR CLARIFICATION COMMENT CRACKS ME UP. YOU SPAM THE THREADS WITH YOUR BULL**** CLAIM OF A 90% LTV, F/C BAILOUT, WHEN YOU KNOW DAMN GOOD AND WELL THAT'S NOT WHAT IT IS. YOU ALSO CLAIM TO WORK FOR THIS COMPANY SINCE 1992, BUT THERE IS NO RECORD OF IT ANYWHERE UNTIL 2002. THEN YOU ASSUMED THAT WE WERE ALL STUPID AND WASTED EVERYONE'S AFTERNOON A FEW WEEKS BACK, TRYING TO CLAIM THAT YOU DO NOT WORK FOR THIS COMPANY, SO YOU ARE NOT SPAMMING, JUST RECOMMENDING. YOU ARE A LYING, POS, SCUMBAG, SCAM ARTIST! YOU KNOW IT, AND I KNOW IT...SOON EVERYONE ELSE WILL KNOW IT.

INTERPRET THAT MR INTELLIGENT!!!!

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”The Rudeness that you perceive is in direct proportion to the irritation you create!"

Posted - 02/10/2008 : 07:16 AM
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All these companies coming out of the wood work, doing loan modifications, short sales and deed in lieu's are a friggen joke. Acting like they know of some special secrets to get these through.

THERE IS NONE.

All it takes is call, faxes, letters and emails. OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN!and there still are no guarantees. You can have 2 exact same people with the same exact situations. One gets a loan mod, the other goes to foreclosure death. It's a combination of luck and persistance. Not special tricks or loopholes.

These guys are selling snake oil. Plain and simple. Plus if you need legal help, since 99% of the people do, that are in foreclosure, they need an attorney. Stop doing people a disservice by trying tpo be of service. Plus, have you heard of the foreclosure consultant act?

Kapeesh?

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Cheerio!

Moe 951-271-6283
Home Owner Advocate

www.LoanWorkout.org
Loan Modification & Loss Mitigation News

Posted - 02/10/2008 : 09:22 AM
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Erv 3 things
#1) I hope they don't let you write the contracts at your company because your spelling is atrocious
#2) making money off other peoples misery is no way to go thru life
#3) crack dealers, as big a scumbags as they are, at least provide the end user w what they're paying for

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2008 : 7:41:39 PM

Here is another example:

http://www.brokeroutpost.com/loans/brokers/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=204447

Posted - 03/12/2008 : 9:54 PM
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I completely agree with Slants here. I think this is the 2nd time I see Erv talking about the Lender in 2nd position as "unsecured".

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2008 : 7:42:34 PM

Here's another:

http://www.brokeroutpost.com/loans/brokers/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=208175

Posted - 03/13/2008 : 03:47 AM
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<snicker>

You've done it now Erv.

FWIW, I took your comment as insulting and way out of line and couldn't disagree with you more. I just wanted that on the record....Slants doesn't need my or anyone's support -> just know from here on out, anything you post on BO best be reseached and cited - she's the queen at ferreting out facts and details.

As my 14 year old likes to say, "it sux to be you."

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2008 : 7:46:54 PM

Then there was this:

http://www.brokeroutpost.com/loans/brokers/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=205470

Posted - 03/06/2008 : 4:16 PM
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Posted - 03/06/2008 : 10:29 AM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Erv
You say that I am, "trying to represent {myself} as a foreclosure expert and a consultant". I dont think I have ever eluded to being an expert. All I have is 16 years experience in the business, so I can only speak from personal knowledge and facts familer to me.
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Posted - 03/06/2008 : 3:41 PM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Erv
As missinformed as I may seem to you, I do my best drawing from my 18 years of experience saving families from losing their homes to foreclosure. If the success was thru my missconceptions of mortgage and realestate law, so be it. I dont believe the families who have saved their homes or gained equity using the AMERICAN RESCUE TRUST foreclosure rescue programs care wheather the rescue was designed or as you claim missconception.
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Yep, classic flim flam behavior. You actually picked up 2 more years of experience in a mere 5 hours? Hard to keep the details straight when you stretch the facts so much, huh? BTW, THIS THREAD AND THIS FORUM IS NOT ABOUT YOU AND YOUR RECORD, or mine - if you do not have factual info or helpful input to add to the topic other than your pathetic sales pitches, keep it to yourself. No one's here to buy what your selling. Go get an ad.

slants

4253 Posts

Posted - 03/24/2008 : 7:52:26 PM

This one's my favorite:

http://www.brokeroutpost.com/loans/brokers/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=208175

Posted - 03/14/2008 : 8:19 PM
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It's summer all year in Southern California. Well, when the temps dip into the 60's, we whine like it's winter.

Erv reminds me of a line from the movie Steel Magnolias. He is a boil on the butt of humanity.