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celloshred
1661 Posts |
 Posted - 03/21/2008 : 10:12:01 AM
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Whats the deal? I know this isnt legal....
Fort Knox is asking me to change the appraisal from my name into OCM, HelpUFinace name... HUF TD'd the same client but FK got an approval.
What the hell? |
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Chris Clark
5959 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2008 : 10:41:23 AM
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| USPAP won't allow the name to be changed anyways. Sounds like you're dealing with some squirrely people... |
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celloshred
1661 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2008 : 3:44:36 PM
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lender tells me:
"Your appraiser seems to have a policy of his own. If he refuses to change the names then we cannot ask him to do anything more. It's not a legal policy but his own. If he is willing to change the name on the report and charge a separate fee that is acceptable." |
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dkendall1979
8742 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2008 : 3:49:43 PM
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| Fort Knox? |
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neversaynever
1020 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2008 : 3:52:37 PM
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lol, I'm with DK, ???
Id sugguest Fort Worth, or Fort Bragg, heck maybe even Scott Air Force Base! |
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Hopland
1803 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2008 : 3:56:01 PM
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| If he's from a real Bank tell him what he is suggesting violates the policies of the federal agencies and that you are going to see to it that their compliance officers gets a call from somebody. |
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Mandyvilla
2708 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2008 : 5:31:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hopland
If he's from a real Bank tell him what he is suggesting violates the policies of the federal agencies and that you are going to see to it that their compliance officers gets a call from somebody.
Nice idea, but w/ this mentality, you need to find the regs in print and copy and paste your rebuttal in an email. They are wrong asking for a change, but if you want it changed, you are going to have to do the legwork. |
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Jimmymackin
616 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2008 : 5:34:54 PM
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I like your Signature quote:
Originally posted by Chris Clark
USPAP won't allow the name to be changed anyways. Sounds like you're dealing with some squirrely people...
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Gork
66 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2008 : 5:51:10 PM
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| Have them read cert 23 on page 6 of the report. The name doesn't need to be changed if it's a Fannie, Freddie, or FHA deal. Yeah, it's a USPAP voilation...not "my" rules. Industry rules. I'd post the link but their comment about the appraiser "seems to have a policy of his own" pisses me off. They should educate themselves. |
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celloshred
1661 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2008 : 6:22:33 PM
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can someone (*cough* appraiser *cough*) point me to a quote i can cut/paste to this person?
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slants
4202 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2008 : 6:50:09 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by celloshred
Whats the deal? I know this isnt legal....
Fort Knox is asking me to change the appraisal from my name into OCM, HelpUFinace name... HUF TD'd the same client but FK got an approval.
What the hell?
Are you the broker of record on the file or are you funding the loan under HelpUFinace? If you are submitting under HelpUFinace as the approved broker, then the appraisal needed to have been ordered in their name to begin with. The appraisal must be in the submitting broker's name to be assignable to the lender and their future investors. If the appraiser can't retype it, then you may have to pay for a new one. |
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ppulatie
2203 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2008 : 6:55:49 PM
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Forst Know is probably running the deal under another broker. They may have changed some of the numbers to get the deal approved.
Heritage Plaza did this all the time. I would submit loans, and they would run it through the Countrywide engine since they funded the loans and sold them to CW. Every loan they would have the original loan in their name, and people would resign the original and then the final 1003.
Henry Sun used to work with them. That is where I met him. |
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slants
4202 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2008 : 7:09:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by ppulatie
Forst Know is probably running the deal under another broker. They may have changed some of the numbers to get the deal approved.
Heritage Plaza did this all the time. I would submit loans, and they would run it through the Countrywide engine since they funded the loans and sold them to CW. Every loan they would have the original loan in their name, and people would resign the original and then the final 1003.
Henry Sun used to work with them. That is where I met him.
This is not clear. I think Fort Knox is the lender and HelpUFinance is the net branch (or whatever their affiliate structure is). If HelpUFinance is the broker, all docs in the file including VOD, VOE, appraisal... must be in their name. |
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gdavenpo
346 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2008 : 7:46:21 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by celloshred
Whats the deal? I know this isnt legal....
Fort Knox is asking me to change the appraisal from my name into OCM, HelpUFinace name... HUF TD'd the same client but FK got an approval.
What the hell?
Start here
http://commerce.appraisalfoundation.org/html/USPAP2008/AOs/ao_26_.htm
quote:
SUBJECT: Readdressing (Transferring) a Report to Another Party
APPLICATION: Real Property, Personal Property, and Intangible Property
THE ISSUE:
After an assignment has been completed and the report has been delivered, an appraiser may be asked to “readdress” (transfer) the report to another party. Does USPAP allow an appraiser to “readdress” (transfer) a report by altering it to indicate a new recipient as the client or additional intended user when the original report was completed for another party?
No. Simply changing the client name on the report cannot change or replace the original appraiser-client relationship that was established with Client A. Therefore, this action is misleading.
That one is from our rules.
http://www.occ.treas.gov/ftp/bulletin/2005-6a.pdf
quote:
12. May an appraisal be readdressed to a regulated institution from the borrower or another institution?
Answer: A regulated institution cannot accept an appraisal that has been readdressed or altered by the appraiser with the intent to conceal that the original client was the borrower. Readdressing appraisals to conceal the original client, whether the client is a borrower or another financial services institution, is misleading and violates the agencies’ regulations and USPAP.
That one is from the banks rules.
If you need more, just google for it. ;)
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johnnyboy38109
2516 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2008 : 12:40:43 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by celloshred
Whats the deal? I know this isnt legal....
Fort Knox is asking me to change the appraisal from my name into OCM, HelpUFinace name... HUF TD'd the same client but FK got an approval.
What the hell?
Lotsa people responding to this with incomplete knowledge.
He can change it, he can/will/should also charge a fee for a name change, which means its a new appraisal, which is really what you want anyway.
Don't overreact. |
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Hopland
1803 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2008 : 12:55:12 PM
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quote:
He can change it, he can/will/should also charge a fee for a name change, which means its a new appraisal, which is really what you want anyway.
LOL
If it's a new appraisal (read: new assignment) then the name wasn't changed. The new assignment has the new clients name on it.
As it should be. |
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tippr01
74 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2008 : 2:24:06 PM
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2231.0.17 APPENDIX B—INTERAGENCY STATEMENT ON INDEPENDENT
APPRAISAL AND EVALUATION FUNCTIONS
...
Likewise, institutions may not use ‘‘readdressed appraisals’’—
appraisal reports that are altered by the appraiser
to replace any references to the original client
with the institution’s name. Altering an
appraisal report in a manner that conceals the
original client or intended users of the appraisal
is misleading and violates the agencies’
appraisal regulations and the Uniform Standards
of Professional Appraisal Practice (USPAP).
http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/supmanual/bhc/200701/2000p7.pdf |
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clarenceworley
3822 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2008 : 2:47:25 PM
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| Get a new appraisal. |
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johnnyboy38109
2516 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2008 : 5:56:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hopland
quote:
He can change it, he can/will/should also charge a fee for a name change, which means its a new appraisal, which is really what you want anyway.
LOL
If it's a new appraisal (read: new assignment) then the name wasn't changed. The new assignment has the new clients name on it.
As it should be.
Being fractious is not very engaging.
If it has a new lender/client, its a new appraisal, whether anything else changed in the report or not, ans whether someone named Hopland wants to call it that or not. Clearly the one he has is worthless to the poster unless its changed, and in order for it to be changed the appraiser'll have to be paid. |
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Rampart
792 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2008 : 6:14:07 PM
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| Thanks for the new word johnnyboy...as I Google fractious. One of the reasons I love the BO! |
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Rampart
792 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2008 : 6:15:40 PM
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| Thanks for the new word johnnyboy...as I Google fractious. One of the reasons I love the BO! |
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Hopland
1803 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2008 : 09:20:59 AM
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Johnnyboy...
I was agreeing with you. New client = new assignment. I was just pointing out that even though you have the right idea you were still calling "it" a "name change."
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twobig
289 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2008 : 9:26:24 PM
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| If appraisal is in your company name, how about an ABC Mortgage/ or - XYZ Mortgage? Is that acceptable? |
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gdavenpo
346 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 06:15:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by twobig
If appraisal is in your company name, how about an ABC Mortgage/ or - XYZ Mortgage? Is that acceptable?
Just what part of this are you not understanding?
quote:
Altering an appraisal report in a manner that conceals the original client or intended users of the appraisal is misleading and violates the agencies’ appraisal regulations and the Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice (USPAP).
You can not change the original client. |
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twobig
289 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 1:26:10 PM
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Sigh. I guess you and I read differently then.
Altering an appraisal report in a manner that conceals the original client
nope, not doing that. Same client. If ABC ordered it (in my hypothetical)
intended users of the appraisal is misleading
Its right there in black and white, ABC and XYZ. Cant see how that would be misleading.
My question then becomes what part breaks this rule?
But you can stroke more brokers/borrowers for a new assignment to change a flipping name. Give me a break.
I know you have USPAP to follow, but at what point do you provide customer service to your clients? Again based on my understanding of this situation. ABC ordered it and needs to use a Net Branch to get an approval, and it is required that XYZ has their name on the appraisal report.
Help make solutions not create more problems.
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Hopland
1803 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 1:57:19 PM
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quote:
I know you have USPAP to follow, but at what point do you provide customer service to your clients?
Just because you're not willing to play by your rules doesn't mean that appraisers should be mocked or accused of gouging if they insist on playing by their rules.
Identifying a client is a step in the appraisal process. Once the appraisal is done it's done. An appraisal is a custom product, made one at a time. Client XYZ can have one made for themselves if they like and it can be almost exactly the same as ABC's, but it can't be ABC's product with their name on it. |
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celtsfan75
154 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 2:01:14 PM
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| the appraiser needs to go out to the house and verify the information in the report is correct. If you already paid for the first appraisal then he ought to charge a small trip fee of 50-100 bucks to get you your "new appraisal" that he did, that happens to have the exact same information as the old appraisal except for the date |
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hammett
39 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 5:01:00 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by twobig
Sigh. I guess you and I read differently then.
Altering an appraisal report in a manner that conceals the original client
nope, not doing that. Same client. If ABC ordered it (in my hypothetical)
intended users of the appraisal is misleading
Its right there in black and white, ABC and XYZ. Cant see how that would be misleading.
My question then becomes what part breaks this rule?
But you can stroke more brokers/borrowers for a new assignment to change a flipping name. Give me a break.
I know you have USPAP to follow, but at what point do you provide customer service to your clients? Again based on my understanding of this situation. ABC ordered it and needs to use a Net Branch to get an approval, and it is required that XYZ has their name on the appraisal report.
Help make solutions not create more problems.
PLEASE STUDY FDIC RULES AND THEN REPEAT. You can not accept altered report. Do you understand this statement? |
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actionjackson
1109 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 6:53:10 PM
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If I understand correctly, it sounds like your lender does not have the ability to third party originate with the investor they will really be selling this loan to very fast, therefore the appraisal must be in their name, therefore they are looking to originate it, not necessaryily rip you off, but thats the only way they can fund this tranaction as a "correspondent lender no doubt..so the approval you get is really an approval they have recieved form their investor and the conditions you recieve are really conditions they have gotten form the investor they intend to sell to.. you got all this? LOL.. they are acting in the fashion of a middle man so to speak or as what some would call a "super broker", they will lend there own funds but only after an approval for purchase from the investor they intend to sell to.yadda yadda.
Jason J. Miles
Cornerstone Bancor Mortgage Corp
1-866-WE-LEND-U/1-631-225-7096
800-538-0794/E-FAX
631-943-9807/631-991-1665/CELLS
jason@cmbank.net
www.cmbank.net |
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Annemieke Roell
572 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 7:20:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by celtsfan75
the appraiser needs to go out to the house and verify the information in the report is correct. If you already paid for the first appraisal then he ought to charge a small trip fee of 50-100 bucks to get you your "new appraisal" that he did, that happens to have the exact same information as the old appraisal except for the date
Not necessarily. If the effective date is different then the comparable sales data needs to be researched again, this time at the latter date.
It isn't as simple as a quick trip back to the house. |
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financeone
1211 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 7:37:43 PM
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Oh, c'mon just use some "White Out" and be done with it! |
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slants
4202 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 8:01:02 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by actionjackson
If I understand correctly, it sounds like your lender does not have the ability to third party originate with the investor they will really be selling this loan to very fast, therefore the appraisal must be in their name, therefore they are looking to originate it, not necessaryily rip you off, but thats the only way they can fund this tranaction as a "correspondent lender no doubt..so the approval you get is really an approval they have recieved form their investor and the conditions you recieve are really conditions they have gotten form the investor they intend to sell to.. you got all this? LOL.. they are acting in the fashion of a middle man so to speak or as what some would call a "super broker", they will lend there own funds but only after an approval for purchase from the investor they intend to sell to.yadda yadda.
Jason J. Miles
Cornerstone Bancor Mortgage Corp
1-866-WE-LEND-U/1-631-225-7096
800-538-0794/E-FAX
631-943-9807/631-991-1665/CELLS
jason@cmbank.net
www.cmbank.net
I believe this does occur, but I think "HelpUFinace", the name the lender wants the appraisal assigned to is actually a net branch (or some similar set up). I think the OP ordered the report in his own company name, but is funding it through HelpUFinace as the branch. Hence the need for a retype. |
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Hopland
1803 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 8:48:59 PM
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quote:
Hence the need for a retype.
STOP CALLING NEW APPRAISALS "RETYPES"!!
lol |
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slants
4202 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 8:53:47 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hopland
quote:
Hence the need for a retype.
STOP CALLING NEW APPRAISALS "RETYPES"!!
lol
Whether you agree with their legality, it is the term by which they are referenced industry wide as far back as I have been in the business. BTW, may not be compliant, but many appraisers HAVE been known to "RETYPE" them. |
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Hopland
1803 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 9:01:16 PM
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I know. It doesn't really matter what our clients want to call anything ("comp check" versus "half-ass appraisal")as long as we understand what they really need and how to provide the appropriate service.
But the use of some of these terms tends to perpetuate the misunderstandings between mortgage lending professionals and appraisers.
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Annemieke Roell
572 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 04:23:10 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Hopland
I know. It doesn't really matter what our clients want to call anything ("comp check" versus "half-ass appraisal")as long as we understand what they really need and how to provide the appropriate service.
But the use of some of these terms tends to perpetuate the misunderstandings between mortgage lending professionals and appraisers.
Slighty off subject but speaking of perpetuating misunderstandings ...... calling a 2055 a "drive by" is somewhat misleading. Most LOs think you just drive by and issue the report. Not until you tell them the only difference between a 2055 "drive by" and a 1004 is the sketch and interior inspection they understand why a 2055 takes just as long to produce as a 1004.
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hammett
39 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 08:19:26 AM
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Here is the FDIC ruling about readdressing or changing appraisal reports. This is not just a USPAP issue. Your are in violation of your our regulations when you request a change in the report and accept the same.
FDIC FIL-84-2003
Office of the Comptroller of the Currency
Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System
Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation
Office of Thrift Supervision
National Credit Union Administration
INDEPENDENT APPRAISAL AND EVALUATION FUNCTIONS
October 27, 2003
The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC), the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System (FRB), the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), the Office of Thrift Supervision (OTS), and the National Credit Union Administration (NCUA) (the agencies) are jointly issuing this statement to address concerns identified during examinations about the independence of the collateral valuation process. This statement applies to all real estate-related financial transactions originated or purchased by a regulated institution for its own portfolio or as assets held for sale. It provides further clarification of, and should be reviewed in conjunction with, the agencies' appraisal and real estate lending regulations1 and the Interagency Appraisal and Evaluation Guidelines (Guidelines).2
An institution's board of directors is responsible for reviewing and adopting policies and procedures that establish and maintain an effective, independent real estate appraisal and evaluation program (program) for all of its lending functions. The real estate lending functions include commercial real estate mortgage departments, capital market groups, and asset securitization and sales units. These independence concerns include the risk that improperly prepared appraisals may undermine the integrity of credit underwriting processes. More broadly, an institution's lending functions should not have undue influence that might compromise the program's independence.
Selecting Individuals to Perform Appraisals or Evaluations
The Guidelines establish minimum standards for an effective program, including standards for selecting individuals who may perform appraisals or evaluations. Among other considerations, the selection criteria must provide for the independence of the individual performing the appraisal or evaluation. That is, the individual has neither a direct nor indirect, interest, financial or otherwise, in the property or transaction. Institutions also need to ensure that the individual selected is competent to perform the assignment. Consideration should be given to the individual's qualifications, experience, and educational background. Selection occurs when, based on an oral or written agreement, the individual accepts the assignment to appraise or evaluate a particular property. Moreover, appraisal or evaluation development work should not commence until the institution finalizes the selection process.
The agencies' appraisal regulations address appraiser independence and require that an institution, or its agent, directly engage the appraiser. The only exception to this requirement is that an institution may use an appraisal prepared for another financial services institution, provided that the institution determines that the appraisal conforms to the agencies' appraisal regulations and is otherwise acceptable. Independence is compromised when an institution uses an appraiser who is recommended by the borrower or allows the borrower to select the appraiser from the institution's list of approved appraisers.
Institutions may not use an appraisal prepared by an individual who was selected or engaged by a borrower. An institution's use of a borrower-ordered appraisal violates the agencies' appraisal regulations. Likewise, institutions may not use "readdressed appraisals" -- appraisal reports that are altered by the appraiser to replace any references to the original client with the institution's name. Altering an appraisal report in a manner that conceals the original client or intended users of the appraisal is misleading and violates the agencies' appraisal regulations and the Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice (USPAP).
It is also important to ensure that the program is safeguarded from internal influence and interference from an institution's loan production staff. Individuals independent from the loan production area should oversee the selection of appraisers and individuals providing evaluation services. The agencies recognize that it may not be possible or practical for small institutions to separate the collateral valuation and loan production processes. To ensure independence, loan officials, officers or directors with the responsibility for ordering appraisals and evaluations should not have sole approval authority for granting the loan request.
When selecting and engaging individuals, an institution needs to identify the assignment and order the appropriate appraisal or evaluation, as discussed in the Guidelines. To foster control and accountability, the agencies encourage an institution to use written engagement letters when ordering appraisals, especially for large, complex, or out-of-area commercial real estate properties. An institution should include a copy of the written engagement letter in the permanent loan file. An appraiser may also incorporate an engagement letter in the appraisal report. The engagement letter confirms that the assignment was made in a manner that complies with the institution's procedures and the agencies' regulations and Guidelines.
Appraisal and Evaluation Compliance Reviews
An institution's appraisal and evaluation program must maintain effective internal controls that promote compliance with program standards and the agencies' appraisal regulations and Guidelines. Internal controls should, among other criteria, confirm that appraisals and evaluations are reviewed by qualified and adequately trained individuals who are not involved in the loan production processes. The institution's standards for and the depth of such reviews should reflect the risk of the transaction and the process through which the appraisal or evaluation is obtained. An institution should establish more in depth review procedures for appraisals of large, complex or out-of-area commercial real estate credits and for those appraisals and evaluations that are ordered by agents of the institution, such as loan brokers or another financial services institution.
Even in small institutions when absolute lines of independence cannot be achieved, effective internal controls should be implemented to ensure that no single person has sole authority to render credit decisions involving loans on which they ordered or reviewed the appraisal or evaluation. Further, lending officials, officers, or directors should abstain from any vote or approval involving loans for which they performed the appraisal or evaluation.
Supervisory Approach
Examiners will review an institution's standards of independence, taking into consideration the size of the institution and the nature and complexity of its real estate-related activities. Examiners will consider whether policies and procedures are comprehensive and applied uniformly to all units engaging in federally related transactions.
If an institution suspects that a licensed or certified appraiser is violating applicable laws or USPAP, or is otherwise engaging in other unethical or unprofessional conduct, the institution should make referrals directly to the appropriate state appraiser regulatory authorities. Examiners finding evidence of unethical or unprofessional conduct, including improperly prepared appraisals or evaluations and readdressed appraisals, should forward their findings and their recommendations to their supervisory office for appropriate disposition and referral to the state appraiser regulatory authority, as necessary. Institutions and institution-affiliated parties, including lenders, staff and fee appraisers, are reminded that they could be subject to enforcement actions, which include removal/prohibition orders, cease and desist orders, and civil money penalties, for violations of the agencies' appraisal and real estate lending regulations.
###
1OCC: 12 CFR 34, subparts C and D; FRB: 12 CFR 208 subpart E and appendix C, and 12 CFR 225 subpart G; FDIC: 12 CFR 323 and 12 CFR Part 365; OTS: 12 CFR Part 564, and 12 CFR 560.100, and 12 CFR 560.101; and NCUA: 12 CFR Part 722.5.
2 The interagency guidelines may be found in: Comptroller's Handbook for Commercial Real Estate and Construction Lending for OCC; SR letter 94-55 for FRB; FIL-74-94 for FDIC; and Thrift Bulletin 55a for OTS. NCUA was not a party to the Guidelines; however, the NCUA applies the
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mganovsky
1686 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 08:57:50 AM
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Live with it why keep beating a dead horse, The appraisor can not just change the lenders/clients name and send you a new report. He has to go back to the house retake the pictures, relook at the comps and prepare a new report. Things can change since the appraisal was done, the house may have been damaged in some way by fire for instance plus in the turbolent market we are in lower valued comps may have hit the county records so the value of the appraisal may change. There are many things that could have changed since the original report was prepared in one day, one week or even 1 month.
If the appraisor is a professional then he is doing his job by following the various laws and regulations that govern appraisals. As a mortgage professional don't you follow the laws and regulations that govern mortgages, why would you even ask the appraisor to break or bend the law. |
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Hopland
1803 Posts |
Posted - 03/25/2008 : 09:56:24 AM
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Actually, the appraiser does not HAVE to reinspect. This is determined by mutual agreement between the client and the appraiser. There are two dates which are important in an appraisal. The "effective date" and the "report date." The effective date establishes the date of value and a "cut off" if you will of market data. For Fannie Mae type appraisals the effective date is the same as the inspection date. The other date on the appraisal is the report date/date of signature. This establishes the perspective of the appraiser in analyzing the market data.
So, for example, if I inspected the borrowers property on March 1, 2008 and completed the appraisal report the next day the report would have an effective date of March 1 and the report date would be March 2. If a different client comes along two weeks later and wants the same property appraised for them (new assignment not a name change) then I could prepare an appraisal for them using the same effective date of March 1 (and this would be based on market data up to March 1 and how the property condition as of March 1). If I finished that report, signed it and sent on March 15 the report date would be March 15. If the house burned down on March 10, it wouldn't matter as far as the appraisal mattered because it is based on March 1. It would matter a great deal to the lender though, wouln't it?
The lender/client has to make a decision on reinspection and date of value. For me, the longer the time between the first inspection and the request for a new appraisals matters a great deal, especially in these times of unstable market conditions. After a few weeks or a month, it's my opinion that a new inspection and effective date is necessary for a credible appraisal report.
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