| Author |
Previous Topic | Next Topic |
Gork
67 Posts |
 Posted - 03/14/2008 : 5:49:09 PM
|
www.cbsnews.com/sections/i_video/main500251.shtml?id=3940904n&release
Copy and paste the link for maximum satisfaction... |
|
benjamin
2308 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 6:00:58 PM
|
| You appraisers and lenders sure messed up a good thing. |
|
|
rsaunders
324 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 6:09:33 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by benjamin
You appraisers and lenders sure messed up a good thing.
Now THAT'S FUNNY !!!!!!!!!!!!! 
|
|
|
Boulderco
1296 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 6:38:15 PM
|
| I wonder how borrowers and the media are going to like the new tighter rules. When everything was going up, up, up everyone loved it and bragged about how much their piece of sh1t house was worth. They're screaming for new regulations and they're going get them. Let's see how understanding they are in the future when their value comes in as the POS it is. The self fulfilling real estate collapse isn't totally here just yet, so we need more and more and more stories like this. |
|
|
nowbroker
1387 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 9:11:12 PM
|
| It is funny how they do not mention the homeowners that wanted the maximum cash out and shopped lenders on a refinance for the max cash out, or the buyers that "had" to have that house even though they had no cash and had to pad the sales price so the seller could pay the closing costs, or the Realtors that would not send any business to the broker or bank unless they were "creative" and "made the deal work" with an inflated appraisal. |
|
|
darkstar
18342 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 9:19:22 PM
|
| See what happens when you sell your soul for $300... |
|
|
MARKJOLLIFF
393 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 10:21:47 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by darkstar
See what happens when you sell your soul for $300...
$350 a hole! $400 for a guaranteed value! |
|
|
darkstar
18342 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 10:37:46 PM
|
| I thought it was $4500 a hole? LOLOLOLL |
|
|
racerx
11458 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 10:39:03 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by darkstar
I thought it was $4500 a hole? LOLOLOLL
It depends on the diamond rating. |
|
|
neversaynever
1044 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 10:53:59 PM
|
Did you see Bigmax leading the appraiser rally at the capital??
http://www.viewimages.com/Search.aspx?mid=2562138&epmid=1&partner=Google
Thou shall not ask for comp checks, or thou hast done an appraisal |
|
|
Boulderco
1296 Posts |
Posted - 03/14/2008 : 10:54:21 PM
|
quote:
Originally posted by MARKJOLLIFF
quote:
Originally posted by darkstar
See what happens when you sell your soul for $300...
$350 a hole! $400 for a guaranteed value!
I'm going to run an ad in the Denver Post for guaranteed value appraisals to go with your 1% fixed rate loan. I'm also going to sell magic dust, and psychic aura readings. |
|
|
FraudFighter
486 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 04:59:49 AM
|
Out of a few hours of talking, this was edited down to a couple of minutes. I did state that NOT ALL do things like this.
I do have thousands of examples like that though... I'm fighting very hard to clean out the appraisers that agree or even offer to do comp checks. Who is working hard to clean out the mortgage brokers that ask for them??? |
|
|
darkstar
18342 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 06:19:12 AM
|
>>>>Who is working hard to clean out the mortgage brokers that ask for them???
Probably nobody since it's not illegal to "ask" for them and only appraisers can do them...The lack of professionalism, ethics and backbone on the appraisers part is not our problem, my god, look what they did to our industry!... |
|
|
NM Appraiser
136 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 08:28:40 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by darkstar
>>>>Who is working hard to clean out the mortgage brokers that ask for them???
Probably nobody since it's not illegal to "ask" for them and only appraisers can do them...The lack of professionalism, ethics and backbone on the appraisers part is not our problem, my god, look what they did to our industry!...
You are correct dark that it's not illegal for you to ask (but it should be). What should be placed into the illegal category is the fact that MBs call around and around until they find some fool who will work for free, put their license and neck on the line by providing an oral appraisal and then not comply with USPAP and, in most cases, state law by preparing a complete file on that oral report. What should be the illegal part of that is that the honest appraisers are put out of work and MBs who do this continue to feed the wolves (number hitters) and they are the ones who tend to survive because of that situation.
Your job is to make the loan based upon the information that you obtain (CR, AR, Income, etc.). Mine is to provide an unbiased opinion of the market value of a particular property - not to give anyone a guaranteed minimum valuation. |
|
|
clarenceworley
4235 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 08:36:40 AM
|
| Appraisers get paid up front. Didn't underwriters question these values? |
|
|
Annemieke Roell
675 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 08:42:57 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by clarenceworley
Appraisers get paid up front. Didn't underwriters question these values?
Not sure what the appraisal fee payment has to do with this. But the second part is interesting.
Lenders have known for years they were buying lousy loan packages, including bad appraisals. For them it was merely cost of doing business. They took a gamble and lost.
Many, many UW departments are staffed by people who don't have the first understanding of the loan process or any of the aspects connected to it. I said many .... not all.
|
|
|
darkstar
18342 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 08:49:17 AM
|
>>>But the second part is interesting.
Of course, it would make some appraisers feel "off the hook", but it would only be a feeling... |
|
|
lunarhamster
4052 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 08:54:11 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by FraudFighter
Out of a few hours of talking, this was edited down to a couple of minutes. I did state that NOT ALL do things like this.
I do have thousands of examples like that though... I'm fighting very hard to clean out the appraisers that agree or even offer to do comp checks. Who is working hard to clean out the mortgage brokers that ask for them???
Thats the problem Pam, you are focusing on an issue that could be done ethiclly, it doesn't always have to mean a broker is looking for an inflated value because they ask for a comp check, you are focusing on that area because maybe in your area that is what was happening, but it just isn't the case, a comp check can be done in a professional way, in order to HELP the borrower, you are only hurting this industry, and more so your own profession.
Put your energy into making positive changes, your are focusing on something I think is personal to you, you said it yourself, you were "blackmailed" this is your personal battle. sad. |
|
|
Annemieke Roell
675 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 09:15:07 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by darkstar
>>>But the second part is interesting.
Of course, it would make some appraisers feel "off the hook", but it would only be a feeling...
Huh?
I could give you a long list of idiotic QC/UW "stips" and that was just from this past week. |
|
|
Annemieke Roell
675 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 09:17:00 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by lunarhamster
quote:
Originally posted by FraudFighter
Out of a few hours of talking, this was edited down to a couple of minutes. I did state that NOT ALL do things like this.
I do have thousands of examples like that though... I'm fighting very hard to clean out the appraisers that agree or even offer to do comp checks. Who is working hard to clean out the mortgage brokers that ask for them???
Thats the problem Pam, you are focusing on an issue that could be done ethiclly, it doesn't always have to mean a broker is looking for an inflated value because they ask for a comp check, you are focusing on that area because maybe in your area that is what was happening, but it just isn't the case, a comp check can be done in a professional way, in order to HELP the borrower, you are only hurting this industry, and more so your own profession.
Put your energy into making positive changes, your are focusing on something I think is personal to you, you said it yourself, you were "blackmailed" this is your personal battle. sad.
Kathy ... did you listen to the interview? Did you HEAR the type of demands we get? ANd what Pam showed is just the tip of the iceberg.
She DID ention that not all mortgage people are like that. She said more on that subject but it was outside of her power what did and did not get aired. |
|
|
Annemieke Roell
675 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 09:19:08 AM
|
Let me ask you this.
We recognize the fact that there are MANY bad appraisers out there. My partner and I, as are many other appraisers around the country, are working hard to clean up OUR profession in several ways, at the expense of our business.
What do YOU guys do aside from making snide comments and ***** about bad appraisers? |
|
|
darkstar
18342 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 09:22:03 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Annemieke Roell
Let me ask you this.
We recognize the fact that there are MANY bad appraisers out there. My partner and I, as are many other appraisers around the country, are working hard to clean up OUR profession in several ways, at the expense of our business.
What do YOU guys do aside from making snide comments and ***** about bad appraisers?
Loans, marketing, lots of phone calls and the rest of the time is spent trying to stay ahead of the curve!... |
|
|
lunarhamster
4052 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 09:24:28 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by Annemieke Roell
quote:
Originally posted by lunarhamster
quote:
Originally posted by FraudFighter
Out of a few hours of talking, this was edited down to a couple of minutes. I did state that NOT ALL do things like this.
I do have thousands of examples like that though... I'm fighting very hard to clean out the appraisers that agree or even offer to do comp checks. Who is working hard to clean out the mortgage brokers that ask for them???
Thats the problem Pam, you are focusing on an issue that could be done ethiclly, it doesn't always have to mean a broker is looking for an inflated value because they ask for a comp check, you are focusing on that area because maybe in your area that is what was happening, but it just isn't the case, a comp check can be done in a professional way, in order to HELP the borrower, you are only hurting this industry, and more so your own profession.
Put your energy into making positive changes, your are focusing on something I think is personal to you, you said it yourself, you were "blackmailed" this is your personal battle. sad.
Kathy ... did you listen to the interview? Did you HEAR the type of demands we get? ANd what Pam showed is just the tip of the iceberg.
She DID ention that not all mortgage people are like that. She said more on that subject but it was outside of her power what did and did not get aired.
I have no doubt you get demands like that all the time, but I will never concede that just because a broker wants a certain value that you would do it. My appraiser would tell me to hit the pavement.
I am sure that they cut anything positive Pam had to say, because all they want is the negative, and she should have known this would paint her in a bad light. I think the whole thing painted her as a whiner and bitter person because she lost her business.
|
|
|
FraudFighter
486 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 09:26:16 AM
|
There is NO way to clean up the collateral value issue without TOTAL separation of the originators and the appraisers and getting rid of the appraisers that don't know what they are doing.
Kathi, I'm fighting this war because I care about what is happening to our economy and society. This affects ALL of us and all you need to do is turn on the news to see and hear it. The BANKS that portfolio the majority of the mortgages they make are not in trouble now because they have very strict rules and regulations about which appraisers get on their approved appraiser panel, which ones get to stay on that approved panel, AND their Compliance and Quality Control Department personnel are the ONLY ones allowed to have anything to do with the appraisers and the appraisal process.
Follow the money to the real perps. You mortgage brokers were set up along with the appraisers you deal with!!! YOU are the excuse for this mess the LENDERS that encouraged you are and will be even more pointing at!!!
There are so very many that have no clue that what they are doing is WRONG. |
|
|
NM Appraiser
136 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 09:26:38 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by lunarhamster
quote:
Originally posted by FraudFighter
Out of a few hours of talking, this was edited down to a couple of minutes. I did state that NOT ALL do things like this.
I do have thousands of examples like that though... I'm fighting very hard to clean out the appraisers that agree or even offer to do comp checks. Who is working hard to clean out the mortgage brokers that ask for them???
Thats the problem Pam, you are focusing on an issue that could be done ethiclly, it doesn't always have to mean a broker is looking for an inflated value because they ask for a comp check, you are focusing on that area because maybe in your area that is what was happening, but it just isn't the case, a comp check can be done in a professional way, in order to HELP the borrower, you are only hurting this industry, and more so your own profession.
Put your energy into making positive changes, your are focusing on something I think is personal to you, you said it yourself, you were "blackmailed" this is your personal battle. sad.
Emphasis added
Come on Kathi. I'm not even in Florida and I get those requests. I thought I had finally gotten rid of them but got one yesterday.
MB: I'm working with some borrowers who don't have any idea what their house is worth and we can't find anything about it because NM is a non-disclosure state.
Me: That is correct - only available is legal description, owner of record, assessed amount and taxes - we don't know a thing about the property until we physically get there and measure, photograph and view it. And to be honest, HOs don't know the slightest thing about their property - size, age, etc. - and they always tell YOU that it's in perfect condition.
MB: Well, not even if it was in MLS?
Me: Sure. I could tell you about was in MLS but that doesn't always mean it's accurate - most real estate people out here guess at the size and it still won't tell me the quality and condition factors as of now.
MB: Well, I don't want to waste the borrower's money on appraisal if it won't go through.
Me: It's not a waste - the purpose of the appraisal is to provide you, the lender/client, an opinion of value on that property so YOU can make a decision about a making or not making a loan and to assist in providing the borrowers a professional opinion of market value that was prepared with research and analysis rather than a SWAG.
MB: Okay - I'll get back to you.
Me: Not holding my breath!!!!!!!!
That right there tells me he's looking for a minimum valuation. And like I said, I'm NOT in Florida. All the calls I get are value searching - how can I tell you if I haven't been in and around the property? |
|
|
mortgagemessiah
8003 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 09:27:44 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by FraudFighter
Out of a few hours of talking, this was edited down to a couple of minutes. I did state that NOT ALL do things like this.
I do have thousands of examples like that though... I'm fighting very hard to clean out the appraisers that agree or even offer to do comp checks. Who is working hard to clean out the mortgage brokers that ask for them???
Pam or any other appraiser on here,
If I say to the appraiser, "Ms. Appraiser, the client is telling me the house is worth x amount, does this sound accurate for the neighborhood?" Would that be unethical for you to answer before doing the appraisal? |
|
|
lunarhamster
4052 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 09:43:38 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by NM Appraiser
quote:
Originally posted by lunarhamster
quote:
Originally posted by FraudFighter
Out of a few hours of talking, this was edited down to a couple of minutes. I did state that NOT ALL do things like this.
I do have thousands of examples like that though... I'm fighting very hard to clean out the appraisers that agree or even offer to do comp checks. Who is working hard to clean out the mortgage brokers that ask for them???
Thats the problem Pam, you are focusing on an issue that could be done ethiclly, it doesn't always have to mean a broker is looking for an inflated value because they ask for a comp check, you are focusing on that area because maybe in your area that is what was happening, but it just isn't the case, a comp check can be done in a professional way, in order to HELP the borrower, you are only hurting this industry, and more so your own profession.
Put your energy into making positive changes, your are focusing on something I think is personal to you, you said it yourself, you were "blackmailed" this is your personal battle. sad.
Emphasis added
Come on Kathi. I'm not even in Florida and I get those requests. I thought I had finally gotten rid of them but got one yesterday.
MB: I'm working with some borrowers who don't have any idea what their house is worth and we can't find anything about it because NM is a non-disclosure state.
Me: That is correct - only available is legal description, owner of record, assessed amount and taxes - we don't know a thing about the property until we physically get there and measure, photograph and view it. And to be honest, HOs don't know the slightest thing about their property - size, age, etc. - and they always tell YOU that it's in perfect condition.
MB: Well, not even if it was in MLS?
Me: Sure. I could tell you about was in MLS but that doesn't always mean it's accurate - most real estate people out here guess at the size and it still won't tell me the quality and condition factors as of now.
MB: Well, I don't want to waste the borrower's money on appraisal if it won't go through.
Me: It's not a waste - the purpose of the appraisal is to provide you, the lender/client, an opinion of value on that property so YOU can make a decision about a making or not making a loan and to assist in providing the borrowers a professional opinion of market value that was prepared with research and analysis rather than a SWAG.
MB: Okay - I'll get back to you.
Me: Not holding my breath!!!!!!!!
That right there tells me he's looking for a minimum valuation. And like I said, I'm NOT in Florida. All the calls I get are value searching - how can I tell you if I haven't been in and around the property?
I dont deny that you get those requests.
But if I tell you to stick a fork in your head, do you do it? of course not.
I dont understand why you all continue to think that Brokers are searching to hit higher values and commit fraud, it just isn't so. I really do believe many new Lo's were the ones asking and searching for the highest values, I would think you guys have seen much less of this with the tighter regs and what not, but you act like this is still the norm and I just disagree. |
|
|
NM Appraiser
136 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 09:48:10 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by mortgagemessiah
quote:
Originally posted by FraudFighter
Out of a few hours of talking, this was edited down to a couple of minutes. I did state that NOT ALL do things like this.
I do have thousands of examples like that though... I'm fighting very hard to clean out the appraisers that agree or even offer to do comp checks. Who is working hard to clean out the mortgage brokers that ask for them???
Pam or any other appraiser on here,
If I say to the appraiser, "Ms. Appraiser, the client is telling me the house is worth x amount, does this sound accurate for the neighborhood?" Would that be unethical for you to answer before doing the appraisal?
Emphasis added
You've actually asked two questions: 1)"Would that be unethical for you answer?" Not really, but then I'd have to prepare a complete file with a certification and limiting conditions (signed) - If I gave an indication that a value "sounded accurate for the neighborhood" then IT IS an APPRAISAL. 2.) "Answer before doing the appraisal?" See the answer to #1 as I've broken it.
From USPAP - Definitions Section:
quote:
For the purpose of the Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice (USPAP), the following definitions apply:
APPRAISAL:
(noun) the act or process of developing an opinion of value; an opinion of value. (adjective) of or pertaining to appraising and related functions such as appraisal practice or appraisal services.
Comment: An appraisal must be numerically expressed as a specific amount, as a range of numbers, or relationship (e.g., not more than, not less than) to a previous value opinion or numerical benchmark (e.g. assessed value, collateral value.
Emphasis added
So, as you clearly read and understand, your question is asking for an appraisal before an appraisal. |
|
|
FraudFighter
486 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 09:48:39 AM
|
Kathi,
What if you had thousands of credit reporting agencies you could call around to and the only one that would get paid is the one that delivers a FICO score for the borrowers that will help you close the loan????? |
|
|
FraudFighter
486 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 09:51:40 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by NM Appraiser
quote:
Originally posted by mortgagemessiah
quote:
Originally posted by FraudFighter
Out of a few hours of talking, this was edited down to a couple of minutes. I did state that NOT ALL do things like this.
I do have thousands of examples like that though... I'm fighting very hard to clean out the appraisers that agree or even offer to do comp checks. Who is working hard to clean out the mortgage brokers that ask for them???
Pam or any other appraiser on here,
If I say to the appraiser, "Ms. Appraiser, the client is telling me the house is worth x amount, does this sound accurate for the neighborhood?" Would that be unethical for you to answer before doing the appraisal?
Emphasis added
You've actually asked two questions: 1)"Would that be unethical for you answer?" Not really, but then I'd have to prepare a complete file with a certification and limiting conditions (signed) - If I gave an indication that a value "sounded accurate for the neighborhood" then IT IS an APPRAISAL. 2.) "Answer before doing the appraisal?" See the answer to #1 as I've broken it.
From USPAP - Definitions Section:
quote:
For the purpose of the Uniform Standards of Professional Appraisal Practice (USPAP), the following definitions apply:
APPRAISAL:
(noun) the act or process of developing an opinion of value; an opinion of value. (adjective) of or pertaining to appraising and related functions such as appraisal practice or appraisal services.
Comment: An appraisal must be numerically expressed as a specific amount, as a range of numbers, or relationship (e.g., not more than, not less than) to a previous value opinion or numerical benchmark (e.g. assessed value, collateral value.
Emphasis added
So, as you clearly read and understand, your question is asking for an appraisal before an appraisal.
AND, makes what the appraiser will be paid based on being able to provide a first verbal appraisal with a high enough value that you will order and pay for the written report appraisal.
Bribe and Blackmail. |
|
|
Annemieke Roell
675 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 09:55:10 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by mortgagemessiah
quote:
Originally posted by FraudFighter
Out of a few hours of talking, this was edited down to a couple of minutes. I did state that NOT ALL do things like this.
I do have thousands of examples like that though... I'm fighting very hard to clean out the appraisers that agree or even offer to do comp checks. Who is working hard to clean out the mortgage brokers that ask for them???
Pam or any other appraiser on here,
If I say to the appraiser, "Ms. Appraiser, the client is telling me the house is worth x amount, does this sound accurate for the neighborhood?" Would that be unethical for you to answer before doing the appraisal?
Answering that question IS an appraisal. And if that answer is based on a SWAG and not backed up by slid research, this is a violation of USPAP. |
|
|
lunarhamster
4052 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 09:56:56 AM
|
I see your point, but I just have always believed that inflating values or pushing values was an injustice to the borrower, I have lost deal after deal because the value wasn't there, I didn't call another Appraiser, ever.
I have lost deal after deal because of FICO scores, I have never looked at this business the way you guys see it.
I watched fellow LO's get their appraisals cut, time after time, inflating values, pushing for that extra few thousand, I saw it, I knew it was happening.
In 10 years, not one of my appraisals have been cut or questioned. Because they are real, not inflated. I think that says alot. I can remember other LO's asking me if I knew an appraiser that pushed value, the answer NO. I know this happens, but I thought it was getting better. |
|
|
FraudFighter
486 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 10:46:45 AM
|
Yes, it does say a lot for you Kathi!
I do not believe you and the appraiser you use are intentionally inflating values or ignoring property deficiencies.
Do you really believe your appraiser, when doing your comp check appraisal, isn't thinking about the one he's looking at that shouldn't be over $250K, but you need $275K, isn't going to occasionally push that value to get that fee and keep your business??? Whether you know it or not, whether the appraiser is willing to admit it or not, that does happen all too often.
Then, when it's purchase, that 'slightly' inflated sale becomes a 'comp' to help the spiral of artificially inflated prices. |
|
|
nowbroker
1387 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 10:53:39 AM
|
Sure there are laws, some are ridiculous and impractical. I am certainly not into shopping for an inflated appraisal, but if there is a sale for $350,000 and my appraiser tells me there are a couple comps that are larger and newer in the same area that have sold for $320,000 and $325,000, it is prudent to tell the customer beforehand and ask them if they want to proceed, and ask the Realtor if they can provide good comps that justify the sales price.
Technically if I run into a friend at the grocery store and they ask me about refinancing and I tell them the rate is 6.25% on a 30 year fixed, we are all breaking the law and should be thrown in jail since we did not disclose the APR, and generate a GFE and TIL in the meat department.
How many tags have you ripped off your pillows that state "do not remove this tag under penalty of law?" |
|
|
lunarhamster
4052 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 10:54:57 AM
|
I know he feels the pain everytime we look at a property and come to a conclusion that the value isn't there, he does as I do, he moves on to the next one. Thats all we can do.
I can't speak for him, but I know when he tells me a value that it's real, and 8 out of 10 times, the value is not there, we both sigh and say, Oh well, maybe the next one.
I just want our business to get better, for all of us, I am not sure how these new regulations on appraisals will affect us, but it's just not looking good for any of us. At least it seems. |
|
|
terry_g
396 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 10:55:54 AM
|
Slightly off topic, but appropriate to your comment...
The one that gets paid to deliver a fico score you want would be the supplier of a trigger list. Now, there's something that should be outlawed.
quote:
Originally posted by FraudFighter
Kathi,
What if you had thousands of credit reporting agencies you could call around to and the only one that would get paid is the one that delivers a FICO score for the borrowers that will help you close the loan?????
|
|
|
Annemieke Roell
675 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 10:56:24 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by lunarhamster
I see your point, but I just have always believed that inflating values or pushing values was an injustice to the borrower, I have lost deal after deal because the value wasn't there, I didn't call another Appraiser, ever.
I have lost deal after deal because of FICO scores, I have never looked at this business the way you guys see it.
I watched fellow LO's get their appraisals cut, time after time, inflating values, pushing for that extra few thousand, I saw it, I knew it was happening.
In 10 years, not one of my appraisals have been cut or questioned. Because they are real, not inflated. I think that says alot. I can remember other LO's asking me if I knew an appraiser that pushed value, the answer NO. I know this happens, but I thought it was getting better.
So you are one of the good, ethical ones. Just like the appraisers who post here. But believe me when I tell you that you are probably in the minority. Just like us appraisers on here are. |
|
|
Hopland
2090 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 10:57:33 AM
|
I would think you guys have seen much less of this with the tighter regs and what not, but you act like this is still the norm and I just disagree.
Kathi... It's gotten worse. Now it's coming from newbie's trying to do FHA deals.
|
|
|
lunarhamster
4052 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 10:58:29 AM
|
| We want rid them as bad as you all do. More loans for me and you. |
|
|
Boulderco
1296 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 11:00:06 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by FraudFighter
Yes, it does say a lot for you Kathi!
I do not believe you and the appraiser you use are intentionally inflating values or ignoring property deficiencies.
Do you really believe your appraiser, when doing your comp check appraisal, isn't thinking about the one he's looking at that shouldn't be over $250K, but you need $275K, isn't going to occasionally push that value to get that fee and keep your business??? Whether you know it or not, whether the appraiser is willing to admit it or not, that does happen all too often.
Then, when it's purchase, that 'slightly' inflated sale becomes a 'comp' to help the spiral of artificially inflated prices.
That's right. We need completely static prices. The home you buy in 2008 should cost the exact same in 2028 with allowance for upgrades. Any increases in overall wages or productivity which may result in relatively wealthier people paying higher sales should be discounted. Supply and demand should be discounted as well. |
|
|
Hopland
2090 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 11:06:03 AM
|
Mr. Colorado,
That's not was was being said and you know it.
Most of this mess was caused by major lenders and politicians. Not us worms working at the appraiser and broker level. |
|
|
neversaynever
1044 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 11:11:27 AM
|
This again, is my 2 cents on why this whole battle we fight here every day is way overblown, the problem lies with blatent fraud, not comp checks or appraisals that dont ecaxtly reflect TMV:
I think its safe to say most MB ordered appraisals come in above the true market value, i.e. the value it would really sell at. OK take a deep breath from the shock and read on,
If you look at the big picture on an appraisal that comes in 2 or 3 k over the actual market value (which come on we know its impossible to pinpoint exactly what it would go for). If a foreclosure happens like in CA today, they get 70 cents on the dollar, pay all kinds of legal and holding fees, and that 2 or 3 k is relatively meaningless.
Sure, we all know the extreme stretches are a huge issue, but those should be taken care of by individual lenders, through appraisal reviews and AVM's, I don’t know of any bank that doesn’t do this (if so let me know I got an appraiser ready to stretch to the moon!!! lol)
Moving on, think about how long it is before a home could be foreclosed on. Say a borrower never pays, its at least 6 months from closing until the home is in bank's hands again, and in most cases its probably 2- 3 years. Guess what, home value has already changed drastically, so again I ask, is that 2 - 3k really relevant?
Now think of alllllll the loans that won’t work because of a small shortage on the appraisal, forget perfect world thinking. We all are already exist in a market where this has been happening for 20 years, millions of home owners arms are coming due (the most in history) and they need help. Is this the time to make this change, how many good paying borrowers will be forced to the streets because their home didn't appreciate by that extra 1% needed to refi? |
|
|
eroeder
33 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 11:12:40 AM
|
| I almost always ask for comp checks, but its not to have bids on the value. Why would I want to waste my time on working a file for 2 weeks if the value is an issue. I simply ask what they think it's worth. Its the people who ask for stretches and the appraisers who provide them that are ruining everything, not people asking for innocent comp checks. I usually send my comps to one appraiser and one appraiser only. On few occasions I'll send it to another one if the first one is a little unfamiliar with the area. I am all for cleaning out these people inflating the value, as much as I want good value because it means more business and more $$$ for me, I actually want to help the borrower and be able to sleep at night. |
|
|
johnnyboy38109
3073 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 11:15:07 AM
|
With the tools available to brokers now, appraisers, its my guess, will become a thing of the past. So many AVMs to choose from, just need someone to certify the structure is standing, lenders dont rely on what some local appraiser says anyway.....so why keep the expense around?
Very seldom any longer do I have go guess if my property's value in the ballpark. Just do a little legwork, and thats all thats required, not some full-fledged appraiser done by some guy who has sloppy attention to detail in the first place.
All this blather from appraisers about feeling pressure to inflate values or risk losing business is all a bunch of horse-buckey and they know it. If the value isnt there and the broker wants to you to dream it up, quit doing business with the broker, thats it. And quit acting like you're the only segment in this mess thats been asked to compromise ethics. I see it every week and not once have I knuckled, and will never.
|
|
|
Hopland
2090 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 11:24:09 AM
|
Never...
Banks don't live or die on a single loan on a residential property. Risk (and thus loan terms) is assessed based on the market value of the property as of the date of value.
eroeder...
I certainly understand your position. My gripe is that appraisers are prevented from doing business with brokers unless they do free appraisals first. The other gripe is having to compete with appraisers who won't comply with professional standards. Each opinion of value must have a work file which must be retained for 5 years.
My work files (including my father's and brother's files) are stored in a storage building on my property. These are for actual assignments and do not include "comp checks" because we don't do "comp checks." These files take up 15 five drawer filing cabinets. For every "real" assignment we do, we probably get 3 or 4 "comp check" requests. Not counting the time it takes for the minimum due diligence required to communicate an opinion of value, the lost time not doing a paying assignment, the cost of materials for the work file, I would still have to deal with all the storage space. LOL...
Still think your "comp checking" appraisers are doing their jobs properly. I'm almost certain they are not. |
|
|
Hopland
2090 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 11:26:04 AM
|
Johnny,
Tell me what you think this property is worth...
26000 Highway 20, Fort Bragg, CA.
|
|
|
Boulderco
1296 Posts |
Posted - 03/15/2008 : 11:27:20 AM
|
quote:
Originally posted by eroeder
I almost always ask for comp checks, but its not to have bids on the value. Why would I want to waste my time on working a file for 2 weeks if the value is an issue. I simply ask what they think it's worth. Its the people who ask for stretches and the appraisers who provide them that are ruining everything, not people asking for innocent comp checks. I usually send my comps to one appraiser and one appraiser only. On few occasions I'll send it to another one if the first one is a little unfamiliar with the area. I am all for cleaning out these people inflating the value, as much as I want good value because it means more business and more $$$ for me, I actually want to help the borrower and be able to sleep at night.
But we're getting some appraisers quoting chapter and verse about how a conversation with the appraiser you know both professionally and personally constitutes an appraisal. So, maybe the bible needs to be changed to allow for innocent inquiry with some legal protection so the appraiser isn't worried about being sued because she says "values in Riverdale are down overall." Like I said before, I can't charge a borrower a fee simply to discuss their qualifications. I can't charge $350 and then say, "oh, you've worked for a temp agency for the last 3 months? Sorry." I wish I could, but the free market won't allow it. There are som | | | |
Search for: