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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
 Posted - 12/10/2007 : 4:06:31 PM
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Yet another one...
I've been tracking the progress of myself and several other brokers who submitted files over there. They require a non-refundable due dilligence fee, based on loan amount.
Every one of us has gotten pretty much the same turndown response... "Due Dilligence came back and says property is in an instable market and/or fraud alert".
Stay away! Don't waste your clients money! |
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mitchmaxx
904 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 4:08:24 PM
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| i was THIS close to sending them a file...thanks for the heads up!!! |
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DINEROS
1113 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 4:10:20 PM
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| Folks out there are becoming very shameless. I had some obvious crooks ask me for $150,000 non refundable underwriting fees for a $10,000,000. Never,never give anything at all in advance. |
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 4:11:11 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mitchmaxx
i was THIS close to sending them a file...thanks for the heads up!!!
I thought I'd hit the holy grail with their claims, but this isn't a limited response. I'm talking about 30 files that haven't gone anywhere. Some of them with A LOT of equity. Mine would have worked at 55% LTV and they claim to go to 80%...
Too bad, I'd of rather just closed the loan. |
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 4:13:00 PM
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I don't fully agree with your statement, but your point is still sound. I believe a DD fee should be assessed if you want a professional organization working on your file, but not excessive like I've seen from others. $5k in DD Fees should cover just about any loan amount.
quote:
Originally posted by DINEROS
Folks out there are becoming very shameless. I had some obvious crooks ask me for $150,000 non refundable underwriting fees for a $10,000,000. Never,never give anything at all in advance.
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 4:41:36 PM
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bump.
This thread is going to stay at the top for a while. |
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 5:25:45 PM
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| up |
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 6:05:33 PM
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Ok, so now there's absolutely no doubt these guys are scammers...
I just found out that the house is listed for considerably less than market value (deal killer) but what's fascinating about this information is I found it out from an investor that went out to check the property out himself...
This tells me that MGM did NOOOOOO Due dilligence on the property or they would have come back with the same results. |
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 6:37:25 PM
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| up |
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dpm
2727 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 6:40:16 PM
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| Thanks! |
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laker07
171 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 7:33:05 PM
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| David, thanks for the heads up |
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jamiesmith80
599 Posts |
Posted - 12/10/2007 : 8:40:16 PM
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I have had one customer pay the due dilligence fees...
Funny, I got the EXACT same statement,or to the effect of the they thought the market was deteriorating, and there was alot of fraud..blah blah blah.
Said same thing, that they would do up to 80% of future value. This deal was at about 60%. So I thought cool..if they value came in less, why not adjust the loan amt? They couldn't even tell me the value that they came up with.
Not to mention...they never even had the exact address to due the due dilligence. My customer also paid a 500 rush fee...which it far exceeded the rush...
Sadly but truly, it looks to be a bad deal. Which *****, I was hoping this was actually a hard money lender that adhered to old school hard money guidelines and had some balls to do deals actually. Not like all hard money lenders now that want 700 ficos and 30% down..lol |
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2007 : 11:40:41 AM
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| Gotta keep this one up there. |
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Quicksilver
4526 Posts |
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
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skoalin
147 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2007 : 12:10:21 PM
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| I too got scammed by them, easy deal that they blame for poor market conditions, stay FAR AWAY |
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2007 : 12:29:30 PM
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| This guys probably made a small fortune off of Due Dilligence fees. Keep this one up there. |
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broker6
19 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2007 : 12:34:31 PM
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WOW, thanks....is there a DO NOT USE list of lenders/scammers?
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2007 : 12:38:32 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by broker6
WOW, thanks....is there a DO NOT USE list of lenders/scammers?
Just use the search feature at the top right of the screen for any lenders you aren't sure of. |
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2007 : 1:12:55 PM
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| Just in case anyone missed it, they're still scammers. |
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coopercash
2692 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2007 : 1:49:13 PM
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All of this is very good information and many of you will recall my "flagging" Associates Capital Trust back in June of this year for very similar reasons.
Now, here's the underlying problem which is now facing the LEIGITIMATE commercial and hard money investor community: FEES payable for appraisal, environmental, geologic (if applicable) reports, legal opinion(s/ due diligence), title research and a frequently required visit to the site/location/project by the lender.
No lender is going to pay those fees on behalf of a client who at that stage is something of an unknown quantity as is their project. If a full blown MAI appraisal is required the client could be looking at a fee of $2,500 up to $15K just for the appraisal.
A client has to be prepared by the Broker to EXPECT fees of this type and it is the Broker's responsibility to carry our basic due diligence of the lender before recommending them to their client.
Verify is the lender is registered as a corporate entity with their home State and when was that entity established? Who are the corpoprate officers? Is their address "real" or a rented mail box which is something you can easily find out by calling the US Post Office serving that zip code? Are requested fees being wired to a bank account with a different name than the lender's business name? Are they registered and in good standing with their home State's Department of Banking?
These are all easy to accomplish basic "101" principles.
OK, let's move forward to the point where due diligence has been satisfactorily completed and the lender/investor releases their L o C. In most cases, the borrower will be required to pay a "Commitment Lock Fee which could be 1% - 2% of the loan amount.
This is particularly true with commercial hard money lenders and is designed to secure the commitment of the applicant and that fee is applied as a credit towards Closing Costs.
HOWEVER...if some legitimate issue is discovered that materially affects the collateral (or the client)the lender may have to vary offered terms (at best) or may decline from proceeding further (at worst).
There are some lender names that are frequently "slammed" here for VERY GOOD REASON because it would seem that they earn a significant part of their total revenues from their receipt of fees more than Points earned on funded loans. LEGAL? The way in which their documents and agreements are written keeps them marginally within Federal and State laws because they will typically be able to prove to regulators that they do in fact a number of loans per year.
That said, if it can be proven that there is a continuing pattern involving a high ratio of declined loans vs. funded loans there may be a case to be built and indeed there are a number of borrowers who are suing one such lender in a collective suit citing the RICO Act. I have heard tape-recorded testimony provided by both current and ex LOs of this particular lender which most certainly suggests that advance FEE INCOME generation was a priority.
These types of practices cast a dark cloud of suspicion on an otherwise legitimate lending sector and are hazardous to those of good intent.
I have just had a "hard money" deal evaporate because my client REFUSED to pay a $10K due diligence fee on a loan amount of $5-million. The lender agreed to cut the $20K into two instalments with the other $10K to paid at closing. VERY FAIR! I know for a fact that this client won't be able to improve on that anyplace else and may well come back only to find that the lender has bolted the door!!
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hertz
688 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2007 : 2:05:17 PM
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| dkendall, tell us how you really feel! |
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privatecash
1694 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2007 : 4:22:17 PM
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| bump |
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2007 : 4:23:57 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by privatecash
bump
GOOD CALL TIM-O! |
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
Posted - 12/11/2007 : 7:14:17 PM
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| Still scammers |
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 12:00:22 PM
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| Still scammers! |
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Jeshuac
88 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 12:10:59 PM
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| I just looked into submitting a file and they do not answer or reply to emails. The first thing they sent was a due dillegence form. Thank god i read this. Thanks guys |
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npainter
697 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 12:17:31 PM
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| Please send checks or cash to me. I will"due" my best to assure it is spent wisely. |
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skyviewmtg
205 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 12:22:46 PM
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| Kendall, Is the website www.aperfectmortgage.com? |
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 12:25:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by skyviewmtg
Kendall, Is the website www.aperfectmortgage.com?
That's the same one!
Saj Habib, Es Presidente! |
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Tsnyder
8067 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 12:39:44 PM
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Ya know... I was kinda wandering aimlessly
through the forum... looking for a suitable way
to exercise my thread-bumping skills... you know...
use it or lose it!
This looks like the perfect thread!
Bump!
Tsnyder
. |
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Tsnyder
8067 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 12:40:21 PM
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ahhh... that felt good... lol
Tsnyder
. |
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 12:42:17 PM
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This is really the best "BUMP" thread that ever made it on the BO.
My client emailed him asking for just the $500 bucks back... never got a reply. All he wanted was his "rush" fee for having taken 2 weeks.
What a dirtbag! |
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Quicksilver
4526 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 12:45:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dkendall1979
quote:
Originally posted by skyviewmtg
Kendall, Is the website www.aperfectmortgage.com?
That's the same one!
Saj Habib, Es Presidente!
Hey, their down here in Ft Lauderdale |
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 12:58:13 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Quicksilver
quote:
Originally posted by dkendall1979
quote:
Originally posted by skyviewmtg
Kendall, Is the website www.aperfectmortgage.com?
That's the same one!
Saj Habib, Es Presidente!
Hey, their down here in Ft Lauderdale
Yes, they are.
You wanna stop by and say hi? |
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mitchmaxx
904 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 1:05:29 PM
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| bump |
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 2:06:07 PM
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| Scam Bump |
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privatecash
1694 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 2:07:05 PM
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| That would be a "SCUMP" |
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mgraham224
1008 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 2:31:20 PM
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felt obligated to bump again.
Dave, anything ever come about with billy uma et al...? |
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Quicksilver
4526 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 2:39:26 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dkendall1979
quote:
Originally posted by Quicksilver
quote:
Originally posted by dkendall1979
quote:
Originally posted by skyviewmtg
Kendall, Is the website www.aperfectmortgage.com?
That's the same one!
Saj Habib, Es Presidente!
Hey, their down here in Ft Lauderdale
Yes, they are.
You wanna stop by and say hi?
And give them a hug and say thats from David? Or a kick in hte cajones, your choice.
lol |
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 2:45:45 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mgraham224
felt obligated to bump again.
Dave, anything ever come about with billy uma et al...?
I think he went to jail or is running from the feds under an alias. |
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mortgagemessiah
8003 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 2:49:30 PM
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| That's why in commercial lending you always stay away from the guys who claim to be direct lenders. |
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 3:22:12 PM
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| SCUMP! |
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LT4
204 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 3:30:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by dkendall1979
SCUMP!
can you explain this a little better please |
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dkendall1979
9487 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 4:09:31 PM
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| Jim Rome Bump! |
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todoforu
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 4:17:11 PM
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WOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW! See, this is why I'm happy Broker Outpost is here. Just submitted 5 scenarios to this company. His response was that he was able to do each of them, along with a DD form with fees listed. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
has this industry really come to this?????????????
Thanks BO, and thanks for the member who started this post.
P.S. I noticed on the DD, the $500.00 Rush Fee reflects a 16 day turnaround, as opposed to their standard 30 day response.
WoW!!!
quote:
Originally posted by dkendall1979
Yet another one...
I've been tracking the progress of myself and several other brokers who submitted files over there. They require a non-refundable due dilligence fee, based on loan amount.
Every one of us has gotten pretty much the same turndown response... "Due Dilligence came back and says property is in an instable market and/or fraud alert".
Stay away! Don't waste your clients money!
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todoforu
714 Posts |
Posted - 12/14/2007 : 4:22:38 PM
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Has anyone heard of Liberty Mortgage / Dana white? I'm need to know if you've had any experience with this company/individual --- good or bad? Need to know. My experience is not pleasant. |
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LT4
204 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 08:00:54 AM
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| uuuuh bump? |
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Mandyvilla
3050 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 08:21:35 AM
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teehee
I went to their website and added a pithy message. Chances are they won't care, but they will be searching the internet to find the comments that let me know they were really, really someone to avoid. And nary a word where to look. It's a bigggg internet. And I figure w/ their name matching a rather large entertainment group, a google search will put them on page 6000.
Okay, juvenile. So? Think of it as the equivalent of an internet snowball. Now, who to sled on? |
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Mandyvilla
3050 Posts |
Posted - 12/16/2007 : 09:29:07 AM
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Wow, I just received a very professional response from MGM and should feel petty and juvenile, lol. Or, I should say would feel petty had I not had more confidence in the reports I read here than the letter I received.
When I went to their website, I was not impressed. The visual in my mind was some fat slob (belly showing, shirt too small), smoking a cigar, ashes everywhere, yelling into the next office "you won't believe this one." What I received was very professional and well written, but more importantly, made the case to look deeper at what was written. After reading this letter, it is so obvious why someone would be taken in.
I have to admire anyone that takes the time to voice displeasure with a company. The fact it's among your own circle in the industry, lends a great deal of credibility. I suspect your friends over at M G M know this. (Not going to make their google search easy, either. You know he/they will be looking hard. Which reminds me, did you post over at RipOff Report? |
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djmarvin
190 Posts |
Posted - 12/18/2007 : 1:30:15 PM
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I just received this email from the rep at MGM...
"Dubai fund has collapsed...
All deals are dead...
We will resubmit all deals pro bono...
On a 2 week liquidity mission...
London tonite, Frankfurt tommorrow...
Beijing on Saturday, Tokyo/Kyoto on Monday...
Singapore on Wednesday...
Moscow on Friday...
Dubai on Tuesday...
Back to FL on Friday...
Keep your fingers crossed!!
We will continue shopping...
I won't stop until we fund or die trying!!!
Happy Holidays... :)"
This is a direct quote from Saj the President of MGM.
Luckily our Dubai Fund and our Saudi Fund are still alive. |
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