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1003s.com
4294 Posts |
 Posted - 11/19/2007 : 11:10:16 AM
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Is HB 3915 a step toward socialism?
The DEMS would like to restrict the ability of
folks to borrow money, to loans they have decided
are more safe.
What will come next, mortgage stamps?
In a free society, folks have the right to make poor
choices,both lenders and borrowers.
With this bill, the government wants to legislate,
common sense lending. Those that support this bill,I
suspect would sympathize with other socialist agendas.
The bill does not have bipartisan support.
The vote on the bill and all the amendments to
the bill, were voted along party lines in the
entire.
Investment banking firms bought a lot of garbage
paper for many years, and now they are bleeding red
ink, as a result and rightly so.
Many mortgage banking firms funded bad loans for
years, and now they have shut down. Many borrowers
who over extended will become renters again, the
markets, need to run their course without government,
changing the natural order of cause and effect. |
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ppulatie
2405 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 11:20:34 AM
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| Of course, it is a step towards socialism, and anti-capitalism. |
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monarchdad
2195 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 11:55:22 AM
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| Of course it is a step towards socialism, anything that restricts free markets for goods and services is. As far as dangerous, despends on who you ask. I would call it disturbing more than dangerous. |
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Layne Jones
1478 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 12:56:50 PM
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Big government is GOOD. Big Business is BAD!  |
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1003s.com
4294 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 12:57:40 PM
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Steve,
I consider laws restricting the ability of a person
to finance a roof over their head, to be dangerous.
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KHufford
10699 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 1:24:19 PM
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| Anyone seen the movie 'Sicko'?? |
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servicefirst
3421 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 1:46:38 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by monarchdad
Of course it is a step towards socialism, anything that restricts free markets for goods and services is. As far as dangerous, depends on who you ask.
I'll second that. Dangerous? Un-regulated markets are dangerous too. The balanced approach is usually in the middle. |
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1003s.com
4294 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 2:33:19 PM
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Yuri,
That is true, no regulation at all would cause problems, just as too
much regulation causes problems. Even in free markets, in some cases,
uniform standards may improve the flow of trade. |
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BigFire
2966 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 2:55:04 PM
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| There is no such thing as a free market - and there is nothing wrong with 'socialism'. |
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LoanShark21666
89 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 3:00:24 PM
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i think we better watch out for bill HR99879 on the horizon!
Regulation of tighty whitey underwear for all americans! 1 pair, 1 brand only bought on tues of every other week. No more Boxers, No Briefs, No Speedo's, No TBacks, Just Tighty Whitey's for Every Amercican!
One Size Fits All :) |
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mortgagemessiah
8020 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 3:03:30 PM
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Bob
Non-existant government or industry oversight is what got us into this mess. You don't hear the brokers in NC or NY complaining about 3915. Their regulations are what 3915 is based on. Why don't you hear them crying and whinning like everyone else? Those brokers are making money because those states have the lowest foreclosure rates in the country right now and are 2 out of 3 states with appreciating property values(Utah being the third). All these arguments were made in 2001 when NC passed their reform bill and none of it came true. |
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servicefirst
3421 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 3:06:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by LoanShark21666
i think we better watch out for bill HR99879 on the horizon!
Regulation of tighty whitey underwear for all americans! 1 pair, 1 brand only bought on tues of every other week. No more Boxers, No Briefs, No Speedo's, No TBacks, Just Tighty Whitey's for Every Amercican!
One Size Fits All :)
Might help with getting the birth rate to go down too! Is that like a way to fight Global Warming? |
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1003s.com
4294 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 3:12:14 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BigFire
There is no such thing as a free market - and there is nothing wrong with 'socialism'.
Oh, Who is John Galt? |
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cvm2
273 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 3:58:00 PM
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refering to mortgagemessiah comments
I am a broker in NC
I do not like the part of the bill that limits YSP on subprime loans. It is hurting the lower class. It will take away the loans they can get. When the 5% total fee( counting lender my fee and attoreny fee) law passed in NC I quit doing loans with lower amounts. The people with smaller loan amounts were the ones that suffered. It makes me raise the loan amounts I will do. I do believe that everyone should have a license. With everyone with a license the crooks are weeded out. It is a form of socialism because it restricts the way I can make money.
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MisterVA
9010 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 4:00:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by servicefirst
quote:
Originally posted by LoanShark21666
i think we better watch out for bill HR99879 on the horizon!
Regulation of tighty whitey underwear for all americans! 1 pair, 1 brand only bought on tues of every other week. No more Boxers, No Briefs, No Speedo's, No TBacks, Just Tighty Whitey's for Every Amercican!
One Size Fits All :)
Might help with getting the birth rate to go down too! Is that like a way to fight Global Warming?
Eating fewer beans might help with the latter. |
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BigFire
2966 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 4:23:39 PM
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| there is no true free market. |
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monarchdad
2195 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 4:31:12 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BigFire
there is no true free market.
Just as there is no pure socialism, very few things are absolute one way or the other. So what's your point? |
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1003s.com
4294 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 4:33:05 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mortgagemessiah
Bob
Non-existant government or industry oversight is what got us into this mess. You don't hear the brokers in NC or NY complaining about 3915. Their regulations are what 3915 is based on. Why don't you hear them crying and whinning like everyone else? Those brokers are making money because those states have the lowest foreclosure rates in the country right now and are 2 out of 3 states with appreciating property values(Utah being the third). All these arguments were made in 2001 when NC passed their reform bill and none of it came true.
Steve,
Bad bond underwriting is at the core of the mess.
Morgage bankers funding 100% LTV, lie DOC loans on bogus appraisals,
to people with crap credit, really did not help much either.
LO's at the bottom of the food chain,
played a role as well, however their effect is now receiving
more than it's share of bad press. |
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edobilas
6 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 4:41:20 PM
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Well, coming from a past communist country myself, that is the first thing came out of my mouth and that is what I sent to my congressman as well.....this is going socialize mortgages. We are going to have poor people with bad credit get FHA loans and the wealthy people get loans from banks. Those are the two types of clients this bill will lead to. I don't see how that helps anyone. And now all the Big boys pulling out of wholesale, that is a joke, as far as I am concerned. All I see is that instead of the brokers making money, the banks will make the money...so say good bye to free market....hello greedy banks...
What's sad is that the people in the congress just don't get this, or perhaps the banks have pretty good lobbyist. I wonder which one is it??? Hmmmmm..... |
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servicefirst
3421 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 4:57:24 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by monarchdad
quote:
Originally posted by BigFire
there is no true free market.
Just as there is no pure socialism, very few things are absolute one way or the other. So what's your point?
QUIT BEATING ME TO THE PUNCH LINE! |
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servicefirst
3421 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 4:59:39 PM
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| I get the sense that this bill will result in the disappearance of middle size brokers. Big guys (that the government always would rather play with) will be just fine and I think that the super-small operations will be okay as well. But the midium-sized companies might be big enough to trigger substantial expenses in compliance that they will not be able to afford. Am I wrong? |
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dkendall1979
13332 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 5:00:50 PM
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| Seems like a push to get everybody to have to show income, if they want to get a mortgage. It would definitely be in the banks and the gov's (one in the same, I know) best interest to get self-employed borrowers to WANT to show income just so they could qualify for decent loans. |
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1003s.com
4294 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 5:08:36 PM
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Eva,
Ayn Rand was born in Saint Petersburg, Russia and wrote Atlas Shrugged,
a novel published in 1957.
Sometimes we really need to listen to folks,
from the the other side of the pond, to understand
better the true evil of socialism. |
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BigFire
2966 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 5:21:06 PM
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| talk to Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, England, France regarding different forms of socialism. Do not compare socialism and communism, nor capitalism and fascism. |
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1003s.com
4294 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 5:38:33 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BigFire
talk to Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, England, France regarding different forms of socialism. Do not compare socialism and communism, nor capitalism and fascism.
Communists advocate Socialism, because it is on the road to Communism. |
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KHufford
10699 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 5:41:52 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BigFire
talk to Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, England, France regarding different forms of socialism. Do not compare socialism and communism, nor capitalism and fascism.
Exactly. Typical US politicking to scare tactics and socialism as a word scares people, but it shouldn't always. |
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mitchmaxx
904 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 5:44:18 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BigFire
talk to Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, England, France regarding different forms of socialism. Do not compare socialism and communism, nor capitalism and fascism.
LOL are you kidding??? Check the taxes in these countries... UNREAL all these libs coming out |
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servicefirst
3421 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 5:49:47 PM
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Well, I think it's perfectly okay to compare.
I'm not sure that strong safety net constitutes Socialism. But I liked "Sicko".
I mean, as a small business owner I'm concerned about European set up where the amount of paper-work, regulation and worker-relations makes setting up a business an unprofitable venture for most. On the other hand, again, as a small-business owner, I can appreciate a system where getting sick is not the worst thing that could happen to me.
Can't I have it all?? |
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dkendall1979
13332 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 5:52:20 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by servicefirst
Well, I think it's perfectly okay to compare.
I'm not sure that strong safety net constitutes Socialism. But I liked "Sicko".
I mean, as a small business owner I'm concerned about European set up where the amount of paper-work, regulation and worker-relations makes setting up a business an unprofitable venture for most. On the other hand, again, as a small-business owner, I can appreciate a system where getting sick is not the worst thing that could happen to me.
Can't I have it all??
Personally, I think Australia is the closest I've seen to "having it all". Matter of personal opinion, I'm sure. |
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monarchdad
2195 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 5:52:55 PM
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What point is this Jay from Wachovia trying to make? That there are some elements of socialism even in capitalist systems? Of course, no one will argue with that.
The profit motive and the presence of "realtively" free markets has been responsible for the advancement health, lifesyle, productivity in this world and throughout time. Without the profit motive we'd all still be riding animals, hunting down our food and dying at the average age of 35. |
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KHufford
10699 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 6:01:23 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mitchmaxx
quote:
Originally posted by BigFire
talk to Sweden, Norway, Finland, Denmark, England, France regarding different forms of socialism. Do not compare socialism and communism, nor capitalism and fascism.
LOL are you kidding??? Check the taxes in these countries... UNREAL all these libs coming out
Yeah, tell that to the poor guy with 100k in medial bills, good thing he saved a couple bucks on his taxes.. |
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1003s.com
4294 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 6:08:41 PM
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So what day of the week should folks line up at
the bank for their socialized mortgages? |
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mitchmaxx
904 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 6:21:46 PM
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| Did he haave insurance/?? come on K are you kidding??? |
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KHufford
10699 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 6:26:25 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by mitchmaxx
Did he haave insurance/?? come on K are you kidding???
Half kidding, I just happen to be an advocate somewhat for more of a 'socialized' medical system thats all, just like the police, firefighters, the library, ect. I know its more in taxes but the benefits would offset it. Anyway, I don't want to get off topic..thats all.
I just find it bad practice using the word socialism to scare people vs. just saying what it really is. |
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monarchdad
2195 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 6:35:19 PM
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Socialized medicine huh? Just think of what will happen to the quality of doctors when you tell them they need to spend 4 years in college, 3 years in med school and 500K in education costs - and then go to work for the government.
Now that's scary! |
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equityPrivate Entertainer
106 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 6:37:05 PM
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| almost everythig dems do is just another little step toward socialism |
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KHufford
10699 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 6:43:36 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by monarchdad
Socialized medicine huh? Just think of what will happen to the quality of doctors when you tell them they need to spend 4 years in college, 3 years in med school and 500K in education costs - and then go to work for the government.
Now that's scary!
You are wrong by a long shot pal...this is the reason Americans think this way, scared, but dont know the facts.
Family practice doctors for instance, in the US make less than a lot of mortgage brokers, and often don't do very well at all. Docs in the national health care system makes plenty of money, 6 figures and way up...and live very well. Dont be quick to say things like that if you don't know the facts.
Plently of smart people work for GOV. agencies also, you think everyone with a PHD in the CIA are a bunch of morons getting low pay? |
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servicefirst
3421 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 6:54:27 PM
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The current health-care system doesn't work.
Living in fear of getting sick is ridiculous.
Scaring people with government is juvenile.
Moving to Australia is not an option.
Many doctors hate the fact that they have to deal with the billing and the business side of their practice instead of concentrating on helping people be healthy.
Doctors in Europe live just fine.
Because a country has a stronger safety net does not make it a better country, or even a better place to live.
HR 3915 is not a Communist Manifesto
Just because we don't like certain words like "Socialism" and "Collectivism" doesn't mean we know what they mean.
I'm out! |
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KHufford
10699 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 6:59:15 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by servicefirst
The current health-care system doesn't work.
Living in fear of getting sick is ridiculous.
Scaring people with government is juvenile.
Moving to Australia is not an option.
Many doctors hate the fact that they have to deal with the billing and the business side of their practice instead of concentrating on helping people be healthy.
Doctors in Europe live just fine.
Because a country has a stronger safety net does not make it a better country, or even a better place to live.
HR 3915 is not a Communist Manifesto
Just because we don't like certain words like "Socialism" and "Collectivism" doesn't mean we know what they mean.
I'm out!
Thanks Yuri! I knew I would agree with you on something for once.. |
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1003s.com
4294 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 7:58:05 PM
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In my retail days, I did many mortgages for US doctors,
their income varies a whole lot.
Some earn over 500K and others earn well under 100K.
Some of the best doctors in the world move to the US,
because the US is still for them a land of great opportunity.
Socialists want uniform healthcare for everyone.
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cpruitt
1776 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 8:27:48 PM
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This is another problem caused by the government. Medical care and medical education were both much cheaper before the government froze wages during the war - forcing employers to offer something else in order to get the best employees. What they came up with was employer paid health insurance. No system can work well with a third party paying the bills. Costs will NEVER be kept in line. Before that, doctors charged reasonable fees and made house calls. In the meantime, government got involved in higher education in the same way and costs began to spiral. We need a system of sound money and we need people paying directly for their own health care and the costs wouldn't be anything like they are. We could then have insurance just to handle major emergencies and not everyday problems.
Bringing the government in to solve anything is like mixing arsenic in your food every day. You can put a little bit in and it may take years to kill you, but it will still kill you. Or you can put a lot in and it will kill you right away. Every time government gets its foot in the door it just expands until it ruins everything.
quote:
Originally posted by KHufford
quote:
Originally posted by monarchdad
Socialized medicine huh? Just think of what will happen to the quality of doctors when you tell them they need to spend 4 years in college, 3 years in med school and 500K in education costs - and then go to work for the government.
Now that's scary!
You are wrong by a long shot pal...this is the reason Americans think this way, scared, but dont know the facts.
Family practice doctors for instance, in the US make less than a lot of mortgage brokers, and often don't do very well at all. Docs in the national health care system makes plenty of money, 6 figures and way up...and live very well. Dont be quick to say things like that if you don't know the facts.
Plently of smart people work for GOV. agencies also, you think everyone with a PHD in the CIA are a bunch of morons getting low pay?
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Donald1955
6067 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 8:28:41 PM
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| It's not a step toward socialism it's a leap! |
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1003s.com
4294 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 8:36:35 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Donald1955
It's not a step toward socialism it's a leap!
LOL Doc! |
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KHufford
10699 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 8:48:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Donald1955
It's not a step toward socialism it's a leap!
How is the coolaid the GOV is serving these days?
They make you think your right by using scary words like socialism to herd you in like a sheep with these ideas, you think your being "American" and "Free" by saying that but in fact its just a title.
They want you to think that way thats where the $$ is for the lobbyists of drug companies and insurance companies, your not getting a dime, or good care for that matter!
See Yuri's comments they are pretty spot on also..
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BigFire
2966 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 8:51:36 PM
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| Again I will say that the Sweden's and Denmark's of the world have high living standards, etc. This can not be just shrugged off. |
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KHufford
10699 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 9:01:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BigFire
Again I will say that the Sweden's and Denmark's of the world have high living standards, etc. This can not be just shrugged off.
Yeah, the GOV wants you think that way to shrug it off and yell, "Oh hey thats socialist! Communist! Keep the government out of my healthcare! AHH"
Just brushes off the real issues, and the US does NOT have a very high ranking healthcare system in the world, nor is our actually health and well being... |
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cpruitt
1776 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 9:01:58 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by servicefirst
Scaring people with government is juvenile.
"The impossibility of any individual or small group conceiving of all the possibilities, let alone evaluating their merits, is the great argument against central governmental planning and against arrangements such as professional monopolies that limit the possibilities of experimentation." -- Milton Friedman, Capitalism and Freedom (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1982), pp. 159-160.
We all think we're smart enough to come up with something that works. We aren't.
"There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil."
"We are fast approaching the stage of the ultimate inversion: the stage where the government is free to do anything it pleases, while the citizens may act only by permission; which is the stage of the darkest periods of human history, the stage of rule by brute force." -- Ayn Rand
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1003s.com
4294 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 9:06:34 PM
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We also have great drug companies in the US,
while people might not like the high cost of prescriptions.
The companies need to profit in order to be willing to invest in
research the way they do. |
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BigFire
2966 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 9:32:21 PM
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| 1003s - the us govt finances much r & d, hence you and I..not the pharm companies. Then they go and charge the moon for drugs. |
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homebroker@sbcgl
8139 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 9:55:51 PM
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The auto plants, textile mills, manufacturing plants, steel mills, paper mills, and supporting industries in America, have all gone belly-up. Maytag (no breaking news) laid off thousands, a few weeks back and left for foreign shores! With the help of federal subsidies etc, (helpful politicians) these industries have all been shipped to foreign lands; that accommodate the corporate hucksters of today with a larger profit margin. They don't have to contend with bothersome health, safety, or environmental protections in third world countries. Labor standards - ha, work till you drop -is the corporate mantra. Americans meantime, cannot compete with slave labor, making 32 cents to a dollar an hour ! No matter that the junk coming in; is inferior, laced with lead, or other poisons. China now holds America hostage, with its funding of our perpetual war- that goes about the world, bombing - shattering - melting and shredding. The borrower is always slave to the lender. It's pretty lamentable knowing that a Tiger Woods makes more for endorsing NIKI, by wearing their logo on his cap, than all the slave labor combined making these costly shoes. What a world. Same with the other gladiator sports stars.
When building a global plantation, with the ultimate goal being a redistribution of the wealth
cut and pasted from another site
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1003s.com
4294 Posts |
Posted - 11/19/2007 : 9:57:50 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by BigFire
1003s - the us govt finances much r & d, hence you and I..not the pharm companies. Then they go and charge the moon for drugs.
Jay,
In somes cases that may be be true.
Drug companies often pay out claims for damage in the millions,
drug companies need profits to pay out those claims also.
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